Watchmeister

So sorry to hear this. Hopefully this bed rest will get you over the hump and well on the road to recovery. As you can obviously see there is a lot of love for you on this forum and all of our thoughts are with you.

At some point I investigated plating for a project and the shop I was talking to had recommendations for various levels of plating based on how long I wanted the plating to last. It is a distant memory but he started at something like 3 microns and went up to something like 15.

R- Yeah, I meant microns.

Ain't no one making those babies anymore other than Panerai and its suppliers. The forum as a group bought virtually all of the originals from the guy in Turkey. At the time he was getting about $100 each. We did a series of group buys for about 75 of them and people were paying $65 or so all in. And ever since Ziggy started making tapered stems to fit the automatic crown into a hand wind movement I have been using them on just about everything. The most recent advancement is the making of custom case tubes specifically to fit those crowns as the case tube is slightly different on more contemporary PAM's.

Interesting thing is the 162 is bone stock gen, the 188 is the rep with the usual gen crown single-sided AR and date wheel but with the gen dial and the 196 is one step down with the same as the 188 sans gen dial. In fairness though, the original 196 dial was a fabulous dial. Other than an elongated marker at 6 and extra tick mark at 12 it is perfect. Most importantly the overall dial finish and number shapes are spot on. Needless to say, the 188 (and the new Chrono Avenger) will be getting all the wear for the next week.

I just received back my 188 from Ziggy. The final touch was a gen dial and that very rare perfect date wheel. I simply added the XaMas strap. Here are the other pair: Actually I don't think the last picture is mine but it is in my photobucket and you get the idea. And for those who are lusting after a 196 I will most likely sell or auction it in the next few week with a chunk of the proceeds going to RWG so stay tuned. No need to PM though as it will be publicly offered.

My best guess on wrapping is that it is simply a thicker plating (perhaps 3mm vs 5mm or 5mm vs 10 mm). It is not necessarily a criticism of the dealers if it is what I suspect. It may be their way of explaining a thicker (i.e. more durable) coating. I have always wondered at what thickness you can actually form a sheet of gold (think of it as paper) and then wrap around an object. Even 10mm is pretty thin. I know that even the best gold filled in the old days topped out at 18-20mm. And of course the other question is what else is mixed into that gold. White gold plating is not actually gold. It is predominantly rhodium. I should know more but I had a number of bad experiences with plating (on gens as well) and so I have tended to stay away from them. I do have one piece which is gold on PVD and it has held up well so far. By the way somewhere around here there is a long thread on wrapping. Most importantly folks are no longer trying to get huge premiums for gold plating versus SS so it becomes more a matter of choice than economics.

Someone else can chime in but there is no such thing as wrapped or rather wrapped is plating. Decent plating starts at 5mm and can go as high as 10mm. Older watches with even thicker plating are referred to as Gold filled. Gold filled used to go as high as 20mm and you could be assured of the plating lasting for 10-20 years or longer. What is good about plating is that the technology has improved from standard electroplating on SS which doesn't wear particularly well to gold being put on PVD or DLC. With the latter you tend to get a truer to real gold color and the gold should not wear away. The trade-off is that if you do scratch it deep enough to get below the gold your only option is to refinish the whole watch or in the case of reps - throw it away.

Welcome and enjoy the ride. Most importantly, best of luck with your first order.

Exactly the oppposite - Angus is selling the V1 and Josh and Andrew are selling the V2. They come from different factories. The easy tells will be much cleaner Top Gun Logo on the side of the case and a darker crown for V2.

Let's just suppose I have a skilled watch smith named Ziggy, now let's also suppose another forum member has a machinist who has been doing casework and making movement rings for us for years (including my last AP Franken movement ring) and has had the benefit of inspecting my existing MBW franken to understand exactly what case mods are necessary....I think you know where I am going with this. Of course these are all suppositions. On a serious note I have more than a year invested in playing with gen and rep movements, dials, hands, inner bezels and seconds at 12 and 9 cases and am only now finally sorting it all out. The opportunity to buy them came up at a good price and so I hit the bid. In short, I am either a genius or an idiot but it will be entertaining in any case.

I posted a couple of pics elsewhere but I just felt the need to torture all the ROO fans in the appropriate section. Straight from Switzerland - I love the box. When is the last time you saw an old school movement box?: Open it up and voila: And the best is yet to come.

Continued thanks to all. Had a wonderful day with the kids. Omni- Great to hear from you.

I have never owned either. I did see another member's V1 and I have seen the gen at a local AD. IMHO, the first version just looked like a screaming fake. From the marker slabs on the dial which look like someone pasted a brick on the dial (same problem with most 3717's but that is fixable) and more importantly a crown (which is the first thing you see on a watch as it peaks out of your shirt sleeve) which is obviously SS and much lighter. On the gen the ti melds into the darker case. Anyone who has ever seen the gen would instantly know. And the top gun logo on the side of V1 also looked horrible. No rep watch is perfect but based on all the pics I would certainly go with the V2. And yeah, I will probably buy this one and it will be one of very few. Thanks to Lani and everyone for all their comments. This loop has taken me off the fence. It will be my first non-franken rep since the blacksteel.

Wear that one well. It is a beautiful watch.

Truly awe inspiring. Huge congratulations. Well I know someone who will never be wearing his DW 6263 to a NYC GTG again. By the way the winds are blowing the boat in the right direction and it looks like we are looking at another NYC GTG in August. I enjoyed your first Red at the last GTG. You better bring the new one to the next.

It has always made me laugh that AP doesn't use AR. Different watch companies have various idiosyncrasies. Muller for many years insisted on using mineral glass rather than sapphire even on $40,000 watches. They rationalized it as they couldn't get the right curvature in sapphire - those cheap bastards.

Thanks man. I will ring you tomorrow morning. Now that is a man who knows what dial is in the dial case.

The original ti Chrono Avenger has always been one of my favorite watches. In fact one of my first purchases in the rep world was the original Josh ti CA. Over the years it has been back and forth several times to Ziggy for upgrades - gen dial, hands, Swiss movement, etc. And here it is on that perfect vintage strap it took me 2 years to find: Fast Forward to 2009 and I come upon a member whose gen had been the victim of a fair amount of water damage. In his frustration with the repair quotes that Breitling was giving him he briefly considered selling it but then withdrew it for fear that the buyer would not be happy. I did notice his offering before he pulled it though and contacted him. He then was kind enough to offer it to me for a very fair price and knowing I had Ziggy ready and willing I jumped on it. Off it went to Ziggy and as it turned out I had underestimated the damage to the watch. Ziggy ended up breaking down the entire movement, removing rust in some inopportune places, and re-oiling every moving part. Well I just got it back and it occurred to me how things come full circle in our forum. Through the forum I discovered the original wonderful rep. It then led me to a life-long friend with phenomenal smith skills in Ziggy. And finally, I met a really nice and generous newer member who provided me with the opportunity to own the gen. Here are the pics: The gen: Hasn't everyone always wanted to wear two of the same watch on their wrist : And finally a few couple comparison shots: So, a big thanks to the forum and all the members that make this place great. And yeah, I do have to upgrade that datewheel on the franken at some point. Maybe I will let the next guy fix that. After all, who wants to get a watch completely done.

Well by chance the watch of choice (or at the least the one I received closest to my Birthday was a Breitling but that is a wonderful forum story I will save for the Breitling section when I have a moment. I know that will warm Dave's heart. But I do have to show you the wonderful old school gift to myself. When is the last time you saw a box like this straight from Switzerland: A quick look at the contents: And a close-up of the contents: Now can you guess what is in the dial case up above? Long live frankens! And thanks again for every one's nice wishes.

Thanks for your kind thoughts. Definitely getting older - unclear whether I am getting wiser.

Beautiful watch. Congrats on the purchase. I have tried the gen on in the flesh and IMHO it is one of the most versatile sport/dress watches. On the dial I can ask a couple of AP sources about this dial but new dials for the ROO (with inner bezel) are $600 + so I would guess this one with gold hour markers will likely be more.

I will second or third the second hand market. My approach on gens is to buy as wisely as possible but not for investment purposes but to give me the flexibility to trade in and out of watches when I get tired of them. From a straight investment perspective I would undoubtedly go with a Rolex Red Sub. They traded upwards of $15k less than 24 months ago and are now buyable in your price range. I believe they will be back there in the next five years as they only get rarer. I know that it is not your cup of tea though. Getting into the 44mm plus take a look at the IWC doppelchronograph a very cool watch that will leave money in your pocket. I would echo the deep sea comments. I am going to go against the grain on the 300 72 hour series. It may be the newest watch from Panerai (and it is pretty) but in the long run I would go with one of the 8 day movements and you can now get a 233 in that price range. The 8 day series is their top of the line movement. The 300 series is a stunning watch but it is meant to fill out the middle of their line and you can buy an 8 day in your price range. IMHO,you have to think long and hard before buying new unless you are getting big price reduction or the dealer is subsidizing your purchase crediting a silly value on a trade-in. The great news is that $7k will go a long ways in the current environment. Take your time and enjoy the "shopping experience".

If you go into the dealer or accessories areas you can come across links to dealers who have withstood the test of time. Some use photobucket and others have specific websites. Davidsen has a photobucket. Everyone will have different points of view as to who makes the best what. I would peruse the PAM section and look at some of the stuff members have bought and their reviews.

Welcome to RWG and here is the link you are looking for: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=85981 I too used to be in love with the whole high end audio area. My dream system was a pair of Infiniti RS-1's with the high end driven by Conrad Johnson tubes and the bottom end with a good solid state amp but that was 20 years ago. The ribbons rock as well but I haven't had a good listen to any since Magnepan came out with the Timpani's. All that is long gone though replaced with kids and their toys.