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You're exactly right By-Tor, and when I first posted the thread, the original post even specifically referred to the red submariner as possibly both the most popular vintage piece as well as the most flawed, in terms of the dial. I mean, it depends on what you need...you may not need it to be 100%, but it's pretty damn off. Part of what motivated this thread was not even my own need to resolve this problem, anymore, but just genuine curiosity about why it hadn't been attempted. Freddy, I hear what you're saying about the difficulty in obtaining a properly done dial. What's interesting is that I saw a re-finished red sub dial go on Ebay recently- I just happened to miss the auction- but it looked pretty good (red font was 'cherry' and smaller) and went for a little over a hundred bucks. I was mad I missed it, but at the same time it made me wonder about how hard it would really be. I thought that places like classicwatchparts.com or Ken-something dials that do mass quantities of refinishes, and will even supply their own blanks? Places like NDtrading are established sellers on ebay, as grey-market as they may be, and they're selling a lot of decently re-finished dials for around $350. You have to think that they're probably around $200 mark up over wholesale- from what little I've been able to gather about this market. I've had to already solve the issue, but I can't help but wonder if there may have been a less expensive alternative for others. Both of my MBW pieces have different dials. What can be quite surprising if you haven't seen a genuine vintage dial in person is that the MBW dials are really sketchy. The difference in quality between the dial on my seadweller, and the one on the DRSD I have that is stock, is pretty big...and I'm not even sure if the good dial is gen or not. Maybe I can further detail some of the differences later on...but one of them, just for starters, is the coronet. On my SD dial, the spikes in the coronet actually extend down all the way to the bottom of the crown where the tiny black oval marks the bottom of the emblem. Usually they just fade into white about a couple of millimeters or so before the black oval part. Problem is, I realize that there are genuine vintage SD's for which that is correct, I'm sure... You may wonder why that would be at all significant. Well, the difficulty in preserving the individual outline of each of the 'spikes' while they're essentially blobbed together is pretty high-detail work...I tried to take a picture of this, but wasn't able to get a clear one. Have you guys ever heard of "the drunken X" that some semi-knowledgable rolex people will talk about when identifying reps? Take a look at your standard MBW dial, the next time you have a chance. At least if it's like the DRSD. I sold the 1680 so I can't remember if that one was effected. But next to a good one, the rep 'X' looks like it's falling over to the right a bit... The swiss t < 25 actually touches the white second markers on the DRSD. The font of the text at the bottom looks wrong to me, and too consistent line-by-line, but that's subjective and it's tough identifying this stuff vs. the gen pics.... Another thing is the datewheel cut-out on the MBW dials. They're supposed to be trapezoidal or whatever, which they are, but the depth, size and angle of the 'cut' of the of the datewheel are all smaller or less pronounced.

Kurt - I prefer vintage to modern & both look spectacular, but I think the modern version looks more realistic. I think the NDTrading dial is too smooth. If it had more texture, I would probably prefer it. A number of people have posted methods for adding vintage texture to a Rolex dial (here is mine) if you want to give it a try.

Yeah an Olive Nato......however, they are the same watch....top one is a NOS Gen service dial and hands for the 5513 and the bottom two are from NDTrading Re-dialed and matching hands.

I am glad you have a sense of humor and you are feeling more confident to go after an MBW. I have an NDTrading dial and matching hands on the way to me ans should get here by Saturday. Nothing like having options eh? let me know if I can help you with your project or parts.....I would be glad to help. Thanks for your opinion and understanding

Boy, that brings back some memories. Your's looks just like the 80s vintage gen 5513 I had several years ago, except my pearl was missing (maybe that's why I take all of mine out??). As far as your statements about "Justasgood", I feel the same way. As I have said here before, I ended up smashing my gen 5513 against a concrete wall and boy was that costly. Had I known then what I know now, I could have fixed it myself. It wouldn't bother me near as much to damage a rep. The good news for me is that I am finally confident enough with my watch skills that I am going to get a MBW next. I have disassembled and mod'ed to the point now that it is no big deal. The 5513 is my goal and though it may not be accurate, a MBW with a NDTRADING dial may be my only option (at least on my budget). One thing about it, I've enjoyed "vintaging" rep so much when I do get my 5513, it will look 30-40 years old. I just can't help it. Great work and yes, I am very jealous!

Is this version with working HE really a MBW ? or some other source .. I was on the impresion there was only solid HE, at least for the MBK sourced, if custom job by the "maria team" now it might be an other story ... can you tell us a bit more about the origin/availability of those case, if not mater of national security of course ... I am considering finding a better case for my 1665, but for now i thought my only option where NDTrading or jewelryandwatch.com both are really overpriced, specially considring they also have flaw (like case back)

The dial looks like an NDtrading aftermarket repaint (not bad, but not gen either). One of the 2 open crown tubes looks aftermarket, the other either gen or Swiss-made aftermarket (these are generally a similar quality to the gen). Obviously, the tube in the sealed Rolex pack is gen. The crowns all look like different versions of gen Triplocks (3 dots denote a Triplock). The bezel & insert look aftermarket, but it is difficult to be sure based on your photos. Others may be able to offer more info.

If it is an MBW case, it is not the correct one for that model. The profile is too narrow & too pointy for a 'dweller. It looks more like a generic rep Sub case than an MBW. That along with the NDtrading dial, off-center date & the ubiquitous rep Triplock crown should be immediate, dead give-aways.

This is from NDtrading, but I decided not to use it It is for sale if anyone is interested.