Watch Oiling Question

[Guest HaloArchive]

Hello All,

I was wondering why watchmakers use this synthetic lube. What is it even made out of anyways? When I service a watch, I am considering next using some silicon lube. What would be the advantage/disadvantage of that? Silicon lube does not gunk up, it is very thin and when it dries, leaves a fine layer of silicon which is a great lubricant and is about a million times better than graphite. It displaces water, prevents corrosion etc. I dont want to hear you shouldnt use silicon lube blah blah blah. I want some scientific evidence of why not. I was thinking of spraying some of that "Liquid Wrench" silicon spray into a small container and applying it with an oiler once I clean off the parts and pieces.

All info is welcomed!

Cheers~

H

This is the stuff: Here

[Guest HaloArchive]

Any thoughts people?

[Guest HaloArchive]

Anyone? 45 Views, no responses.

[kronos twin]

Anyone? 45 Views, no responses.

I wish I had expertise on this matter. I have a friend who used silicone lube on his noisy rotor and that did the trick just nice. I haven't hear a complaint out of him since. I've considered doing the same for my noisy Chopard, so I'd be interested in hearing what people here have to say.

[maxman]

You realy should'nt use silicon lube blaa blaa blaa Maybe the Zig or one of are other knowledgable members will chime In, I really know very little about such matters, Good luck. Mike

[Guest HaloArchive]

Yeah, where is The Zigmeister

[Neuuubeh]

Guess it depends on the viscosity. There are 3 kinds of oils used for watches anyhow, with different properties (surface tension, viscosity and blabla I guess?). If you can get silicon oil with similar stats, what difference can it make??

I'd think the synthetic lubricants have some silicon parts in them anyhow

So wheres the Zigmeister

[FxrAndy]

I have been discussing this with a watch maker i know and i know the British horological institute is looking at this type of nano partical oil, the one question that keeps ocuring is how do you clean it off when the movement needs a service in the future, as it will even just to remove any oxidation caused by the air in the case.

I would not recomend using liqid wrench as even the basic unitas movement uses 3 differnt types of oils, there is no way that one can replace all three.

[Fireman_Fred]

...I think I'll play safe and stick to using silicone spray oil on my watch bracelets!

[Guest HaloArchive]

I have been discussing this with a watch maker i know and i know the British horological institute is looking at this type of nano partical oil, the one question that keeps ocuring is how do you clean it off when the movement needs a service in the future, as it will even just to remove any oxidation caused by the air in the case.

I would not recomend using liqid wrench as even the basic unitas movement uses 3 differnt types of oils, there is no way that one can replace all three.

Speaking of which, I am purchasing a cheap unitas off of the 'bay and will conduct this test myself. This does not mean this discussion is over however. We need to hear from experts...

*SCREAMING* Ziiigggggggggyyyy!!!

[Guest HaloArchive]

Bump? anyone else?

[fcaap_dan]

The Zigmeister explains about the very carefully planned friction and oils relation to it in his faq about the a7750. I would link it but i'm posting from my phone.

[fcaap_dan]

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=78016

I managed. I think.

[Guest HaloArchive]

I said no "You shouldnt do this blah blah blah" posts O.o

[fcaap_dan]

as an amsoil dealer for 8 years i'm interested in this topic. if the friction of the movement is carefully planned like The Zigmeister says, then using a lubricant with the incorrect coefficient of friction is going to cause problems. either too much (running slow) or too little (running fast). this isn't like a turbine engine that just needs the lowest coeffecient of friction oil or a car engine that coeffecient of friction really doesn't matter.

another thing to be aware is if any ingredient says chlori in it. that means any yellow metal it comes in contact with is screwed.

[drhydro]

OK, I'll weigh in here - I don't claim to know everything in da woild about watch oils, but I do know a little bit about oil in general. Silicones have some definite limitations when it comes to lubrication.... where they are so used, they tend to be used as carriers for other additives which do most of the lubricating.... and note- it's silicone. With an e.

• Taken from Dow Corning's tech notes area: (emphasis added)
  

Because of their low methyl-to-methyl intermolecular interactions and high backbone flexibility, silicone materials have:

A low glass transition temperature and remain liquid at room temperature, even at high molecular weight

High boiling points, and their viscosity is less affected by temperature changes than organics

However, the surface tension of silicone fluids is very low, and

they tend to spread more than organics.

Their high spreading and high compressibility

limit the internal pressures

(viscosity increases) that can build within silicone materials when they are used as lubricants. This

limits their load-carrying capacity compared to organic lubricants with the same initial viscosity

.

Watch lubrication is tricky. Contact areas of pivots and jewels, esp. in the balance/escape area, are extremely small- the loads are extremely high, compared to almost any other lubricated mechanism. (PTFE, Moly, Graphite, you ask? Nanolubricants? Nope. They do not work in mechanisms this small- and especially not for essentially point contacts such as pivot cap jewels. What about the "graphite fix" for seconds-at-six 7750s, you ask? Subtle... but essentially, if the graphite does any good at all, it's because of its use on the flat surface of the gears.)

True watch oils are, among other things, designed so they will resist spreading. You don't want the VERY tiny amount of oil you apply to the balance pivots to spread out over everything near- you lose the lubrication! Also, they are designed for these extreme point loads present in watch movements, and their viscosities are carefully controlled for the same reasons. Synthetics vs. "natural" or mineral oils? Simple- synthetics don't oxidize or otherwise degrade over time *nearly* as much as the other stuff. Watchmakers used to like the natural oils better because the watch would require cleaning more often- they resisted the adoption of good synthetics because it cut into the profit margin!

You said:

"Silicon lube does not gunk up, it is very thin

(depends on the product!)

and when it dries

(

the carrier evaporates- the stuff doesn't "dry" as such.)

, leaves a fine layer of silicon which is a great lubricant

(see above)

and is about a million times better than graphite

(not true- totally different)

. It displaces water, prevents corrosion

(only insofar as it serves as a barrier to oxygen, and silicone is not a very good barrier/corrosion preventer.)

etc

"

The stuff Lowe's sells- that liquid wrench product- I would NOT use that on a watch! No way, nohow. Heck, they won't give you any information about what's in the can- I know, I've tried to find out info beyond what's in the MSDS sheet on a lotta that stuff with no result, because they don't control what's in it well enough to tell ya!

Well, I could write a bunch more... but we gotta go out of town tomorrow morning and I need a bit of sleep. And for those wondering where this comes from, I'm an engineer. Spent 30+ years in the hydraulics field- Sauer-Danfoss Company- working with hydraulic oils, cleanliness, lubrication, bearings, instrumentation. As I said, I am *no* expert on watch oils, but I know what I like.... cain't go wrong with Moebius.

[Guest HaloArchive]

That makes sense. I want to know the tolerances then of SILICONE lubricant and Moebius If it would work otherwise, the tolerances would have to be proper. What is watch lubricant made out of anyway?

BTW, I have a couple danfoss compressors for a cascade change system for my computer (my other hobby )

[fcaap_dan]

hydrocarbons.