Lemania/Seagull movement

[olegunnar]

I have read here that the so called Lemania movement used in several chronos, is a chinese rep.

"Firstly the 'Lemania' movement in reps isn't a Lemania at all - it hasn't got anything at all to do with Lemania. This so-called 'Lemania' movement is actually a handwind Seagull two-register chronograph movement which is a Chinese copy of an old, Swiss Venus movement. The modern Seagull is rightly well regarded and is a very good movement...."

My question is: Is there a way to get an original Lemania movement, and would it fit an Omega Speedmaster as does the copy Seagull one? Does anyone actually have one for sale?

I would feel better if I had the gen abd perhaps I could replace it. Or is this just a silly idea?

Thanks for comments.

Will

[Pugwash]

My question is: Is there a way to get an original Lemania movement, and would it fit an Omega Speedmaster as does the copy Seagull one? Does anyone actually have one for sale?

I would feel better if I had the gen abd perhaps I could replace it. Or is this just a silly idea?

It's silly unless you have a genuine dial, hands and of course case. In other words, if you have a Speedmaster with a broken movement, it's a great idea.

[trailboss]

thanks for the responses all.

does Davidsen make non-branded dials? I think I actually prefer that. I know i'm on RWG, but i'd feel more comfortable wearing a non-branded homage watch than a fake Panerai.

You refer to the Sea-Gull (the corect way to write their name BTW) ST-19 which is indeed a first class CN MVT.

Someone else may have to jump in but is there not a subdial spaceing issue here?

FYI some info on the ST-19:

The Sea-gull ST-19 is hand-winding, with a 21600 bph escapement and column-wheel chronograph actuation. Its origins lie with the purchase in 1963 by the Tianjin Watch Factory of the calibre 175 from the Venus Watch Company, Switzerland, for use in a watch provided to pilots in the People's Liberation Army Air Force. A few short production runs were made in the 1960s. In the early 2000s the calibre was resurrected, with numerous detail upgrades, as the ST-19. Early examples of the new calibre found their way into counterfeit Omega Speedmasters and thus gained the erroneous informal designation 'Lemania-clone'.

Several sub-dial layouts have now been added to the ST19 range, as well as power-reserve indication. There is also a skeleton version. Other enhancements are in development.

ST-19's are found in many brands in several countries e.g. Sea-Gull (China), Plazeon (Thailand), Riedenschild (Germany), Soyuz (Russia), Invicta (USA). The ST-19 is the only genuine column-wheel chronograph available in watches selling in the sub-$1000 range. It has a reputation as a robust movement as failures are rare.

Variants:

* ST1901: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3

* ST1902: 3 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, 12 h register at 6 that mirrors the time-keeping hour hand

* ST1903: 3 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, 24 h register at 6 that is not affiliated with the chronograph function

* ST1904: unused model number, possibly being reserved for an automatic winding or true 3 register chronograph version

* ST1905: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, decentral power reserve at 4:30

* ST1906: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, decentral power reserve at 6

* ST1907: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, central power reserve indicator

* ST1908: 4 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, date at 12, real moon phase at 6

Col.

[olegunnar]

It's silly unless you have a genuine dial, hands and of course case. In other words, if you have a Speedmaster with a broken movement, it's a great idea.

Yes, I see your point. But how do you rate the Seagull copy against the gen Lemania movement in terms of reliability?

The gen certainly looks stunning, even from a layman's dim perspective....

http://www.ninanet.net/watches/others02/Mediums/mlemania.html

[hooky]

The Seagul ST19 'Lemania' is one of the most reliable movements used in replica watches. From first hand I know that compared to all the 6497, 7750, 2836 & 2824's, the ST19 is the movement with the least amount of problems. Lets say that again, with almost no problems at all.

One of the most respected watch repair guys of this forum I remember has said once 'A watch smith worst nightmare'. Why? because it never breaks, so no money to be made by a watch smith....

[Pugwash]

Yes, I see your point. But how do you rate the Seagull copy against the gen Lemania movement in terms of reliability?

The Seagull ST19 is mind-bogglingly reliable. Bomb-proof is the term I usually use to describe it.

[MarkJ]

The ST19 is pretty good but I've done repair work on a few and mostly in the pusher springs, etc. The movement was made from Venus tooling but the Chinese factory which I'm very familar with, did a poor job on fine adjustments in the chrono mechanism. It's easily fixed but still requires some skill, removal of parts and use of tools. The Lemania is like you say, a different beast. The Lemania worth getting is the calibre 321. It fits in older Omega models and used by Vacheron, Patek, the list goes on. If you decide on the Chinese Venus, make sure the pushers are properly adjusted before mounting it.

[Ephry73]

I have two if the ST1902 One needs a dial. Do we know which Daytona rep dials fit this movement?

E