New 111h

[Guest eddielee11]

new 111h

adjustbale swan neck

[Pugwash]

Is this the problematic movement The Zigmeister mentioned?

If not, if it's Asian, I'm interested.

[Shasta]

The regulator arm is different - still, the balance wheel is the new style from the problematic movement. Sadly, the balance spring in the affected area is unsharp.

Not the same problem movement that The Zigmeister reported on.

[t]

cotes de geneve looks bad :yucky:

this is REAL cotes de geneve

look here

Edited September 6, 2006 by tourbillon1801

[Pugwash]

this is REAL cotes de geneve

look here

Got any better pics? Those ones blow goats.

[www_watch]

cotes de geneve looks bad :yucky:

Even on the cheap asian movements the CDG's look much better in person.

It's pretty hard to get a nice pic of it.

[t]

Got any better pics? Those ones blow goats.

you are the best

[www_watch]

Well yes, it's true, the Asian CdG's look much nicer in person, but still - they seem very coarse and not like something fine and well defined...

Of course the genuine CDG's are nicer. But after all the mods and improvements (well some of them not that helpful.....) to the rep "H"-movement I still wonder when they will get the "OFFICINE PANERAI" engraving right.

That would be a HUGE step.

[archibald]

Of course the genuine CDG's are nicer. But after all the mods and improvements (well some of them not that helpful.....) to the rep "H"-movement I still wonder when they will get the "OFFICINE PANERAI" engraving right.

That would be a HUGE step.

I'd love to have hand CDG, guilloche, engine turning, etc, on all my $300 watches, but it ain't going to happen until the chinese really figure out, or more liekely, feel like using their CNC engravers to their full capability it ain't going to happen.

Besides, anyone who cares about the backs of PAM reps ought to sve themselves the trouble and heartbreak and buy a gen--99.999999% of the people who see it, would tn't know Cotes de Geneve from goats in the barn, and the other .000001%, who happen to be paneristi or maybe people being scammed on ebay, are going to say "thank god those chinese haven't got the movement right yet."

[Usil]

On the swan neck, it looks like the top end is thicker and maybe has a squared end for a miniature tool to fit and turn the adjustment screw. I never could figure how the first ones could be used without removing the movement. If it has the end for a little wrench then it makes sence. Anyone know?

Usil

[vaccum]

Here is a c6497 "swanneck" close-up pic

This movement is from Eddie.

[wan]

Im pretty sure the one The Zigmeister was talking about with the problems is the one with a diffrent shape swanneck adjustment pin. The badly designed movement only has one screw holding on the SN adjuster and flywheel. The movement at the top of the page in question has two blue screws on each side holding it on, meaning that the movement at the top of the page is a much better movement than the ones with only one screw holding it all on..............The movements with one screw, like the 6497 G movement will most likely suffer a catostrophic falure due to the un-even tention put on the one screw...........As far as the picture of the movement that Eddielee shows in his new 111h at the top of the post.............I think it's a solid movement, i have one in my 177h and one in my 111h and they should last as long as i want them too, with regular service...........In addition i also have the questionable movement that The Zigmeister commented on, it came in a pam127G...... When this movement first came out the makers were saying it was a 1 to 1 copy, but all they really did was put the"genuine looking"or proper looking swan neck regulator point and then skimpped on important aspects like stability and future reliability by not anchoring down the the SN regulator and flywheel with two screws,"a screw on each side" Instead they just put one. There are a few rep affecianados that "for a price" will take the questionable G movement and swap the flywheel and SN parts from a better movement and install it in the G movement so that you could have a "gen looking" regulator point along with the two blue screws holding it on to make it a much better movement that also looks like a genuine pam movement.............I guess if you did that you would have the closest to a gen looking movement you can have............But Why? it still wont fool the people you couldent fool before. I guess if someone "who was new to Panerai" had a checklist with all the things to look for in a Pam 6497 movement to tell if its a rep or gen would be able to say that the movement passed all the criteria that 95% would look for,"without opening the display back" to call the movement a genuine Panerai....I know that 95% seems like alot but unless you live it and breathe it like the other 5% you dont even know that the the movement in question, "a 6497" is not even made by Panerai but by Eta.........I am lucky enough to own a gen Panerai so i get to compare between my reps and my gen all the time. I think i have found a way to describe between a really good fully modded rep and a gen.........You can buy "the most expensive" best of the best kit to make a rep of a Shelby Cobra with the 427 Cobra jet engine and all the extras. "we've all seen the ads for them in the back of mags"............If you took the $100,000 replica and put it next to the real thing, "in any condition", The Genuine Shelby 427 Cobra will out class and beat the kit without even racing but boy "they both" sure are fun to drive...................Im not sure what started me on this rant but.....Oh yeah, i remember....Instead of worrying about having the closest looking pam movement, you should just buy a asian pam000 or 005 with a solid caseback.I have found that the asian movements work great so with a upgraded CP and lume you can have a 98% gen looking rep that you are not afraid to take off...........Cheers, Wan

[mrnixon]

Wan,

Thanks for your long discussion. I am just curious to hear your opinion about a plain un-modified Swiss made ETA/Unitas 6497 and how it would be in comparison with the movements you are discussing above in terms of reliability and quality. I bought a replica recently, which does not have any names etc neither on the back, the movement nor the dial. The reason was simply that I did not want it to look like a rep. I normally collect vintage sport rolexes and I did not want anyone to think I am going around with a fake watch since I think most of my friends who are also watch enthusiasts would probably find it a bit cheap (no critisism here of people buying reps, this was just my logic). Therefore I decided to go for one without any markings what so ever since then it will not look like I am pretending anything and that I have just bought a fun watch for what it is.

I am happy with the quality of the outer things such as screws, spring bar and crown protector and it keeps perfect time (a few seconds per day). The feeling of the watch is not very different compared with a gen Pam 111. My friend has one and the outer parts which could feel different still don't show any significan difference compaired with mine. The reason I am curious about the long term quality of my movement is that I am considering spending some money on a couple of straps, new arms and some other modifications to make it look more vintage. But I dont want to do that if the movement is of poor quality that will break down soon and after that the watch and all the money spend will just end up in a drawer. My impression was that ETA Swiss 6497 ought to be a rather solid movement, which should be lasting for almost a life time provided I service it now and then. I has been produced for over 50 years so eventual weaknesses should have been changed. I then got a bit surprised when you talked about lack of stability etc.

I would very much appreciate your, or anyoneelses view on this issue. Thanks in advance

[wan]

Wan,

Thanks for your long discussion. I am just curious to hear your opinion about a plain un-modified Swiss made ETA/Unitas 6497 and how it would be in comparison with the movements you are discussing above in terms of reliability and quality. I bought a replica recently, which does not have any names etc neither on the back, the movement nor the dial. The reason was simply that I did not want it to look like a rep. I normally collect vintage sport rolexes and I did not want anyone to think I am going around with a fake watch since I think most of my friends who are also watch enthusiasts would probably find it a bit cheap (no critisism here of people buying reps, this was just my logic). Therefore I decided to go for one without any markings what so ever since then it will not look like I am pretending anything and that I have just bought a fun watch for what it is.

I am happy with the quality of the outer things such as screws, spring bar and crown protector and it keeps perfect time (a few seconds per day). The feeling of the watch is not very different compared with a gen Pam 111. My friend has one and the outer parts which could feel different still don't show any significan difference compaired with mine. The reason I am curious about the long term quality of my movement is that I am considering spending some money on a couple of straps, new arms and some other modifications to make it look more vintage. But I dont want to do that if the movement is of poor quality that will break down soon and after that the watch and all the money spend will just end up in a drawer. My impression was that ETA Swiss 6497 ought to be a rather solid movement, which should be lasting for almost a life time provided I service it now and then. I has been produced for over 50 years so eventual weaknesses should have been changed. I then got a bit surprised when you talked about lack of stability etc.

I would very much appreciate your, or anyoneelses view on this issue. Thanks in advance

Hello, the unstable 6497 i was talking about is only one particular series they made that has the words panerai all over it..Plus its a chinese copy.....Sounds like the one you have is fine and will last as long as you take care of it. The movement i was talking about came on a later series of rep pam127 and i have not seen it for sale in a while so i would not worry. I have a movement like you discribe as having and its lasted over three years without ever doing anything but wind it and i expect it to preform great with no problems. A real swiss eta will last a lifetime................Cheers, Wan

[mrnixon]

Hello, the unstable 6497 i was talking about is only one particular series they made that has the words panerai all over it..Plus its a chinese copy.....Sounds like the one you have is fine and will last as long as you take care of it. The movement i was talking about came on a later series of rep pam127 and i have not seen it for sale in a while so i would not worry. I have a movement like you discribe as having and its lasted over three years without ever doing anything but wind it and i expect it to preform great with no problems. A real swiss eta will last a lifetime................Cheers, Wan

Thanks for your answer. Now I guess I can invest some more in the watch. Planning to get some nice vintage looking straps and brass coloured arms to make it look a bit more vintage.

[fitmic]

Wonderful information. I am thinking that the 111 could maybe be my first purchase.

Canon Pinion

It was my first PAM as well.

A great choice!