babola Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Welcome back BABOLA Very nice to see You back again ! Keep on posting Thanks bud, I haven't gone anywhere (not yet..LOL!) just had a few ups and downs as they say cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Wolf, I'm reading my eyes glued to the screen. Very interesting really. I'm not sure I understand: My dial has no "-" anywhere. Just "T Swiss T". What does that mean? Thanks for all the interesting details about my watch. I was not aware of anything like it. Valerian. If it hasn't got the "-" between the T and Swiss, than Id' say with almost 100% certainty someone's already dealt to this little "problem". The "-" on these 001/004/040A-B DSN dials used to be mostly removed by The Zigmeister in the past, as part of his re-lume service. Can you provide a macro of the dial please? The removal marks should still be slightly visible. cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 LOL! Just checked my spare parts box and realized I have both types of DSN 001/004/040A+B series dials we're talking about here - both Valerian's old type from '06 as well as Quest's new type from 2009. How weird is that! I bought the old one in '06. The new one DSN sent me some 6 months ago out of blue as a token of appreciation for some stuff we did together in the past. Not being in the "game" back then I put it in the box and completely forgot about it He also sent me 2 other dials, his 'new' 002A T-dial and Zero Base (000). Thanks D, didn't even know what I had lying idle in my box Pics below: As you can see, when positioned one next to the other the difference in dial txt font & thickness, numerals and markers style (less and more deeper cutouts and grooves around the markers), and the T Swiss T font under 6 o'clock - are all striking. Couple more photos: Another thing you might have or haven't noticed from the first photo is the difference in diameter of both dial. Old DSN dial is about 1mm wider, to fit the older style DSN cases with larger rehaut and dial cavity. This was the case with ALL DSN dials in the past until late 2008 when his dial maker started making dials of standard width to fit cartel rep cases. One thing is also synonymous with DSN dials in general - they're slightly thinner than standard rep and gen dials. He originally made them like that to alleviate the short cannon pin issue. It worked OK for base dials with hour/minute hand only, for Marinas, the tolerances between the hour and mall second hand were extremely low, almost nonexistent...forcing the installer sometimes to bend the hour and minute hands upwards a little. Not a great look but it was OK at the time high cannon pinion sets weren't available ;-) As I mentioned above the difference is about 1mm. The wider dial will fit old DSN cases and some of the old-school EL/River cases without modifications (read: grinding off the diameter for about 0.5mm) cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Excellent writeup, Babola. I'm familiar with both dials you show in your post, in fact I've been looking for the "old yellow" DSN marina dial for a long time and was recently given one as a gift by a good friend of mine I'm now wondering if it'll fit into JimmyzFu case without milling after looking at your measurements... Also, it appears that Qwest actually has the new new DSN dial or the 3rd generation dial without grooves around indices. I bought a couple of those dials from DSN as soon as they came out around end of October last year. DSN hasn't uploaded them into his photobucket and hasn't started building them into watches until early November '09 though. Though the print could be more anemic, as you put it, on gens, I've not yet seen a picture of one that wasn't white. So in the end it looks like the only good TST and passable dial print color is is the old yellow DSN with dashes in TST... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 I'm now almost certain that Valerian has the 2nd gen dial. This is the 3rd gen dial I'm referring to in my previous post (photos courtesy of MilesD): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Wolf, I'm reading my eyes glued to the screen. Very interesting really. I'm not sure I understand: My dial has no "-" anywhere. Just "T Swiss T". What does that mean? Thanks for all the interesting details about my watch. I was not aware of anything like it. Valerian. Val- The whole T-SWISS-T vs. T SWISS T signing is an identifier of sorts for different era of Panerai. The T-SWISS-T are primarily the Pre-A style dials; these are classified as a sort of neo-vintage and fit in between the alphabetical series numbering of Vendome/Richmont era produced Panerai and the Pre-Vendome 5218 series Panerai (which typically had no 'SWISS' signing at 6:00). The T SWISS T are typically found in the alphabetical series production watches produced by Vendome/Richmont, but there is some bleedover of T-SWISS-T dials in the A and B ranges since old stock parts were likely used in the assembly process as those items were available for use (and likely there was no discernment of any potential collectibility of these pieces, or more specifically dials). More info can be found here. Hope this helps... //ubi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 I'm now almost certain that Valerian has the 2nd gen dial. This is the 3rd gen dial I'm referring to in my previous post (photos courtesy of MilesD): Yup, Valerian's definitely looks more like 2nd gen than 1st. The dial font gives it away. Quest's is indeed the same dial as the one you show on MilesD pictures. It still has some irregularities when compared to the genuine, but at least it's the right size for people who would like to simply drop it in the standard case. I may need to get that one as well, at least for comparison sake cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 So in the end it looks like the only good TST and passable dial print color is is the old yellow DSN with dashes in TST... Agree, the 1st gen dial appears to be the best out of the "bad" bunch, all issues taken into consideration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valerian Posted March 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Good evening guys! Wow this thread turned out to be a real 001 knowledge source base! Thanks everyone for the indebt coverage of my watch and other possible versions. Thanks also to Ubi for showing mercy and explaining the necessary basic to a poor noob. Ok, pics of my dial where asked. They're quite merciless in their details. First I need to apologise for the dust all over the case. Secondly you will now see a major flaw I only discovered after a few weeks: The first A in Panerai is distorted. Anything else you see pls. fire away. I'm also interested in modding suggestions. I can't send to Zigmaster but to Bricciola. Here we go: Kind regards Val. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eton Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Great watch, love black straps personally, go moo croc for dress! Cheers V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 Thanks Val, yup the dial you show is the now so called "2nd version" 001/004/040 T-dial from DSN. Good, but not his best work. The newest one would definitely be a slight upgrade in respect to dial txt, but the 1st series (if you could find one) would be the best fit, IMO...providing you get it relumed, milled to the right diameter and "-" removed between the T and Swiss. cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utheman Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 Val, I really like the look on the black croc strap. May I ask where you got it? I'm looking for something similar for my 127.l take care, w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valerian Posted March 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 Hi W I bought it in the Bay, a German dealer: His shop is here. This is the model. Price is fair, I guess. Let me know if you need help with the language. Val. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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