PAM 253 version summary

[prb]

As far as I can work it out, this is how it goes:

V1: Old version, unavailable now. A decent first attempt, but had some major flaws.

V2: Perhaps available, but not easy to track. A good replication, but subdial border is too deep and broad, CG is poorly machined and doesn't fit the case well (even inhibiting chronograph functioning), and the "10" in the 3 o'clock subdial is printed in a serifed font (whereas the gen is sans serif)

V3: Available now. Overall, fixes the subdial border and "10" serif problem from the V2, but the CG is visually off (looks like a D).

http://puretimewatch.com/product/pam253h-v3-on-rubber-sport-strap/

Best/updated: Available now. Includes the subdial and "10" serif fix as per V3, and also has an updated CG that no longer looks like a D. Perhaps this is the V2 with updates?

http://puretimewatch.com/product/pam253-regatta-best-edition-updated/

Have I got this straight? Looks like the best buy right now is the updated V3?

Edited May 4, 2010 by prb

[plaifender]

As far as I can work it out, this is how it goes:

V1: Old version, unavailable now. A decent first attempt, but had some major flaws.

V2: Perhaps available, but not easy to track. A good replication, but subdial border is too deep and broad, CG is poorly machined and doesn't fit the case well (even inhibiting chronograph functioning), and the "10" in the 3 o'clock subdial is printed in a serifed font (whereas the gen is sans serif)

V3: Available now. Overall, fixes the subdial border and "10" serif problem from the V2, but the CG is visually off (looks like a D).

http://puretimewatch.com/product/pam253h-v3-on-rubber-sport-strap/

Best/updated: Available now. Includes the subdial and "10" serif fix as per V3, and also has an updated CG that no longer looks like a D. Perhaps this is the V2 with updates?

http://puretimewatch.com/product/pam253-regatta-best-edition-updated/

Have I got this straight? Looks like the best buy right now is the updated V3?

You forgot an important strong point of the V1... IT CAME WITH SAPPHIRE CRYSTAL!!

Overall.. your assessment would be correct. I'm not sure if the new updated V3.. (why don't we just call it a V4?? ) Is a V2 with a V3 dial.. Until i have one in my hands i'm not able to assess it. The v2 cg (at least mine) was horribly constructed and didn't sit flush against the case. The "V4"s i've been seeing popping up around here look to be pretty flush and snuggly fitted to the case. The CG lever also looks to be a little better fitting than the V2's... The cg's shape also appears to be 95% perfect.. Polishing the cg pin would be an awesome mod for this new "V4" watch.

p.s. It also looks that many of these new 7750 watches are coming from the factory with the rotor screw modded (similar to francisco's mod) so now it doesn't looks like a toothed rachet gear...

[prb]

In your opinion then, would it be better to go with a V3 or V4?

[plaifender]

Just spoke with Andrew... the V4 comes from a completely different factory than the V3.. I wanted to buy a V4 CG from him... He said that it wouldn't fit. So i'm guessing the cases aren't identical. In my opinion and from what I've been seeing of the V4s.. they have the same thin numberals and both have numerals that are too lightly colored. Both have similar hobnail dials, and the subdial rings also look exactly the same. The only that appears different to me :

1. the CG (better on the V4)

2. the Caseback (h series engraving on caseback and better modded rotor screw son V4).

For these 2 reasons.. and the price difference it would look like the v4 is a better buy.. but they are pretty much indistinguishable at a glance.

I might be getting the v4.. just for the cg now! and do a movement/dial swap.

[ebzen02]

Still not buying.. The numbers are too thin and the crown guard can be better..Oh..OCD!!! Although, the 212 looks a whole lot better IMO..

[burrppp]

care to share from which dealer got the best version for 212...

[plaifender]

Still not buying.. The numbers are too thin and the crown guard can be better..Oh..OCD!!! Although, the 212 looks a whole lot better IMO..

Never met anyone with a modified lumed 253 yet. I'm assuming that one of the experienced lumers here could thicken out the numbers with a little greener colored lume.. The CG has no fix without heavy case modification. I know there's a member that has a gen CG available if anyone's interested shoot me a pm and i can ask him if it's still available. The only problem is that i'm sure it would require moderate modification to use on a rep case

care to share from which dealer got the best version for 212...

all of them have access to the new "V4" 212/253 that came out in march. Both watches are lookin pretty good

[Maars]

Just spoke with Andrew... the V4 comes from a completely different factory than the V3.. I wanted to buy a V4 CG from him... He said that it wouldn't fit. So i'm guessing the cases aren't identical. In my opinion and from what I've been seeing of the V4s.. they have the same thin numberals and both have numerals that are too lightly colored. Both have similar hobnail dials, and the subdial rings also look exactly the same. The only that appears different to me :

1. the CG (better on the V4)

2. the Caseback (h series engraving on caseback and better modded rotor screw son V4).

For these 2 reasons.. and the price difference it would look like the v4 is a better buy.. but they are pretty much indistinguishable at a glance.

I might be getting the v4.. just for the cg now! and do a movement/dial swap.

The other important point to note about the 'Best Edition (Updated)' (V4) is that the movement is '28800 vph' which is the same as the gen. The others are 21.6K.

Whilst the CG is better that the D-shaped CGs on earlier versions it's still not an accurate mirror of the gen, with the ends (by the pushers) looking rounded off.

The blue writing on the movement looks pretty poor on the Puretime version with the ink smudged or missing in places on the lettering.

The 'L SWISS MADE L' is too close to the markers around the dial.

Some good pics of a gen 253 here.

[plaifender]

The other important point to note about the 'Best Edition (Updated)' (V4) is that the movement is '28800 vph' which is the same as the gen. The others are 21.6K.

Whilst the CG is better that the D-shaped CGs on earlier versions it's still not an accurate mirror of the gen, with the ends (by the pushers) looking rounded off.

The blue writing on the movement looks pretty poor on the Puretime version with the ink smudged or missing in places on the lettering.

The 'L SWISS MADE L' is too close to the markers around the dial.

Some good pics of a gen 253 here.

Sorry maars, but that's not true. Sounds like you've started doing some homework!.. Where did you see them selling a V2 or V3 with 21,600 A7750? The V2 and V3 both come with 28,800 A7750s (and have always come). The only version to come with the 21,600 A7750 was the V1 with sapphire and I'm not even sure that came with the older 21,600bph engine. Very few watches made after 2007 come with the older 21,600 A7750s.

The "L Swiss made L" is not too close to the markers.. I've held a gen pam286 in my hand next to my 253 and it's spot on. The problem is the dome crystal distorting the photo a bit towards the edges od the dial. The real problem is that the markers on a gen are on a completely separate piece of the dial laid on TOP of the hobnail texture.. So looking at the dial from inside going outwards you see: "hobnail... dial marker ring.... hobnail.. rehaut"

[Maars]

Yes indeed...to doing some more research on such matters

Puretime informed me that the V3, as you call it, is 21.6K whereas the new (updated/V4) version is 28.8K. Apologies for my 'catchall' comment on the 21.6K - I actually only meant the V3 (not really aware of previous versions).

Re. the L SWISS MADE L, thanks for the info - great to be able to compare a gen vs rep in person (lucky you).

Can you also post a view of the movement as the blue text on the (updated/V4) version looks pretty shocking to my (untrained) eye.

[plaifender]

Yes indeed...to doing some more research on such matters

Puretime informed me that the V3, as you call it, is 21.6K whereas the new (updated/V4) version is 28.8K. Apologies for my 'catchall' comment on the 21.6K - I actually only meant the V3 (not really aware of previous versions).

Re. the L SWISS MADE L, thanks for the info - great to be able to compare a gen vs rep in person (lucky you).

Can you also post a view of the movement as the blue text on the (updated/V4) version looks pretty shocking to my (untrained) eye.

Interestingly enough.. my V3 (From Angus at puretime) is a 28,800bph. Bought almost 2 years ago... Regardless.. with a proper servicing (which i reccomend anyways) both movements should be fine.

In any case, the movement is completely wrong no matter which version you get.. and anyone that's familiar with the panerai Caliber XIX will be able to know that the rep is a rep... i wouldn't by any watch based on the accuracy of it's movement engravings etc.. as only a real expert (or RWG head) would ever be able to call you out on something so trivial. You're right though.. the newer version's engraving looks bad. Although the rotor screw looks a LOT better.. and closer to gen. Observe:

puretime's V3 caseback (same as mine)

puretime's "v4" caseback (called the V3h on their website):

GEN caseback:

MY CASEBACK:

p.s. here's the funny story about my V3 PAM253 fooling an AD. here in madrid(not on purpose!)

[importr]

I think i have the v4, with sapphire and ETA rotor bearing, and hi-beat motor.

It still has an incorrect dial though, and that is the hobnail texture stop about 1.5mm from the Tachy ring, whereas on the gen the hobnail goes all the way to the Ring. Plus, the lume indexes on the rep are still too thin.

Not that 1mm is anything to get upset about, but if we really want to split hairs........!

hXXp://www.blowers-jewellers.co.uk/PAM253_S13321.htm

[plaifender]

I think i have the v4, with sapphire and ETA rotor bearing, and hi-beat motor.

It still has an incorrect dial though, and that is the hobnail texture stop about 1.5mm from the Tachy ring, whereas on the gen the hobnail goes all the way to the Ring. Plus, the lume indexes on the rep are still too thin.

Not that 1mm is anything to get upset about, but if we really want to split hairs........!

hXXp://www.blowers-jewellers.co.uk/PAM253_S13321.htm

Thanks importr. Yeah i mentioned the index marker ring about 3 posts up....

Thanks for the picss..

here's a pic of the hobnail dial.. extending past the dial marker ring:

[Maars]

Interesting movement comparisons plaifender. Now I'm confused - I think two of your pics are transposed:-

Your "puretime's V3 caseback (same as mine)" is actually PAM253 Regatta Best Edition (Updated) - see here.

Your "puretime's "v4" caseback (called the V3h on their website):" is actually PAM253H V3 on Rubber Sport Strap - see here

Or have I just lost the plot?!

As an aside, is this one repped yet?

[plaifender]

Interesting movement comparisons plaifender. Now I'm confused - I think two of your pics are transposed:-

Your "puretime's V3 caseback (same as mine)" is actually PAM253 Regatta Best Edition (Updated) - see here.

Your "puretime's "v4" caseback (called the V3h on their website):" is actually PAM253H V3 on Rubber Sport Strap - see here

Or have I just lost the plot?!

As an aside, is this one repped yet?

You are correct. The dealers have not started using the words "V2, v3," etc. until recently. I think they took some kind of lead from my "comparison review" then completely messed up the names of the versions. I have NO idea why puretimes calls their latest version a "V3h" when it came out 2 months ago and comes from a completely different factory and uses different parts than the original V3 that came out 2 years ago. Josh and andrew call this watch the V2!!! It gets confusing, I didn't see any mistakes in the labeling of my photos.

Just know that when I say "V4" .. it's because that's what it should be called. even though they refer to it as a "V3h"

p.s. this is the pam 286. There was speculation 2 months ago that this watch was going to come out sometime in april/may.. but i haven't heard anything. In any case.. the rattrapante function is completely fantasy and the rattrapante start/stop button on the lower left hand side would be completely unfunctional if a rep of this were to come out.. just another place for water to enter!

[Drulee]

I think i have the v4, with sapphire and ETA rotor bearing, and hi-beat motor.

I don't any rep domed crystal was sapphire. I know that the dealers have claimed them to be, but everyone who has tested them properly, has reported "Not Sapphire, mineral or plexi". Can you verify if yours is actually sapphire?

[importr]

Good point indeed.

I know that on my "v1" 253, the AR'd glass was "glass" - as it shattered into a dozen shards (while under new ownership).

The dealer does indeed claim my latest version 253 to be double AR sapphire - maybe I'm too naive for believing that! I'll have to do the water drop test, after I get it back from servicing for a dodgy chrono reset.

I thought I'd read somewhere that on mineral glass, AR appears greeny?

Just that on mine, the AR seems almost perfect - in subtle purply tones and excellent light transmission.

[plaifender]

Good point indeed.

I know that on my "v1" 253, the AR'd glass was "glass" - as it shattered into a dozen shards (while under new ownership).

The dealer does indeed claim my latest version 253 to be double AR sapphire - maybe I'm too naive for believing that! I'll have to do the water drop test, after I get it back from servicing for a dodgy chrono reset.

I thought I'd read somewhere that on mineral glass, AR appears greeny?

Just that on mine, the AR seems almost perfect - in subtle purply tones and excellent light transmission.

You'd be the first person with a sapphire crystal in their 253.....

[importr]

So it's probably something else then! lol

But anyway - is it really going to make a difference to the look or function of the watch, whether it is sapphire or not? As it is, i think the glass and AR are fine.

Its the dial which needs work, but I'm not that anal about it, as no one else will ever know - apart from gen owners and AD's - which i'll probably never encounter whilst wearing it.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Importr

[plaifender]

So it's probably something else then! lol

But anyway - is it really going to make a difference to the look or function of the watch, whether it is sapphire or not? As it is, i think the glass and AR are fine.

Its the dial which needs work, but I'm not that anal about it, as no one else will ever know - apart from gen owners and AD's - which i'll probably never encounter whilst wearing it.

Mineral crystal is easy to scratch and I've already gotten several small nicks in my crystal. it's quite annoying. Sapphire on the other hand is very difficult to scratch with normal wear. Some people will also tell you that sapphire looks a bit higher quality on a watch as well. Also.. with sapphire.. a nice bluish/purplish AR tint is achievable.. whereas with mineral... AR will turn a less-desireable yellowish.. Have you not seen the group buy thread for the sapphire crystal. It's a little project put together by myself and Offshore. We still are not set on prices.. but the thread has been created to guage interest in who is interested in purchasing a sapphire crystal for their 253/212

[importr]

Come to think of it, the first 253 i had was scratched glass - but why is that i read elsewhere that mineral is more resistant to scratches?

Yes i have seen the GB - a good idea - especially to have a spare on standby at least. When we replaced the crystal on the first 253 we had to source an acrylic one. It was a perfect fit, but obviously not AR'd or scratach resistant. Cheap enough though

[plaifender]

Come to think of it, the first 253 i had was scratched glass - but why is that i read elsewhere that mineral is more resistant to scratches?

Yes i have seen the GB - a good idea - especially to have a spare on standby at least. When we replaced the crystal on the first 253 we had to source an acrylic one. It was a perfect fit, but obviously not AR'd or scratach resistant. Cheap enough though

Not sure you heard that anywhere on here..

Sapphire is much more scratch resistant than mineral glass on the moh scale...(which is relative and not absolute). To give you an idea of the physical differences.. Sapphire is 4 times harder than mineral crystal.. (mineral crystal is made of silica (quartz) primarily)