State of Daytona

[ojciec]

I think this may be my first post here, but I am a long-time reader/lurker.

I'm curious as to the state of the current Daytona. I've read so much about the secs @ 6 and movement problems of past Daytona reps, so I was wondering what current production models are like.

If you have recently ordered a Daytona would you be so kind as to post a few words about it? Specifically, appearance and quality. If you would, please include where you bought it and if you would do it again.

I'm working on a project (hopefully will post it here soon) that will be all about the Daytona because I haven't been able to find anything recent.

Cheers!

[By-Tor]

Hi ojciec,

welcome to RWG!

State of the rep Daytona hasn't changed in years. It's still the same seconds at '6 timebomb as it was before. This post has everything you have to know about it.

I once sent a pm to Joshua an said that a reliable "Killed stopwatch" version with only running seconds at '6 would sell a lot, he answered that factories sell thousands of the seconds at '6 versions so they simply don't care.

I think the only realistic chance of getting a better one is the new tricompax subdial modification, which could make repping the El Primero model possible. It would probably sell a lot... but so would a great 1675 rep but there are none. They never produce decent OTB vintage models for some reason.

[ojciec]

Thanks By-Tor. I'll check that link you posted. BTW, I sent you a PM on another forum a few weeks ago. Did you ever get it?

[By-Tor]

I probably did, but I get so much pms from my past reviews that I simply don't have to reply them in the other forums. I really hate that... I wish I did... nothing is nicer than talking watches, but that's how it is when you have a family and work. Sorry 'bout that... shoot me another here.

RWG is my home forum, you can always find me better here.

[fakemaster]

The reason the rap manufacturers don't do vintage is because they make what what sells. Vintage doesn't. The whole reason people in the real world buy reps is to pass them off as gen. And though no one will admit it, most on the forums do as well. And you can't do that if no one knows what the heck they're looking at. So the current designs are what they want.

[By-Tor]

I find that logic flawed because I'm quite sure that the popular Rolex vintages would sell much more than say, Jacob & CO watches that they just repped. Or Chopard, Chronoswiss, Graham, Mont Blanc and many of those obscure luxury brands that we have excellent reps of.

I mean, how many people outside the WIS circles have heard of Chopard and Bell & Ross?

Daytona El Primero is extremely popular watch from a historical point of view... so is 1675 GMT. Why wouldn't they sell... they're probably among the most requested watches in the rep community?

[fakemaster]

they're probably among the most requested watches in the rep community?

That is the reason why. Rep forum sales aren't even a blip on the radar. For every watch sold here there are 10,000 sold to tourists. That is where the money is. And they don't know or care what a 1675 or a Primero is. All they want to do is impress their buddies and the Sub they just saw at the AD is what they want.

[By-Tor]

I understand that.

But I'm not willing to swallow that it's more profitable to make a super-rep of Mont-Blanc Timewalker than vintage Rolex Daytona or GMT... two of the top-15 most recognizable watch models on the planet. That's just way too insane to even think of.

[fakemaster]

Well they have to rep other brands. Otherwise there would only be rollies out there. Gotta have a variety. You know I am the least anal guy out there on he details. But I will admit that many of the reps in each line have bad flaws. But there are one or two within each line that they do very well. Usually the most popular ones in the brand. Sub & Daytona. Timewalker & Star. SMP and PO. Superocean & BCE. But in the end they make most of their money on the canal street stuff.

[By-Tor]

Sub (besides Noobmariner) has never been done that well, despite hundreds of different versions. WM9 was to first one who made it well (by today's standards) and I believe it's Taiwan-made.

Yet a watch like TAG Link Chrono was made exceptionally well in their first try, and it's probably 1000 times more difficult to execute than a simple Sub (the dial textures, bracelet brushing, etc), yet it was all superb.

The mistakes on the current vintage Rolex reps are so stupid that it's pretty impossible to believe that ANYONE (even after sniffing glue for 20 years + going through a complete lobotomization) could make those errors. I wonder if they have access to Google image search at all... it takes 2 seconds to get reference material for any vintage Rolex. I know that they often use factory surplus dials & parts to squeeze out some of that cheap shit (that some of our dealers are selling as budget stuff) but what's keeping them from releasing the more expensive ones and put some effort to it...

Even MBW's are ridiculously inaccurate... their only strong point is that they're good bases for modding.

[fakemaster]

Yes the Tag Link and Aqiuaracer are awesome. Sometimes they do get things right by accident ya know. In any case I understand everything you are saying but you are thinking like a forum guy. I bought my first rep in 1985 when the internet was a wet dream. So I can look at it from both sides. To these buyers there is no Noobfactory or MBW. Well there is no Noobfactory but that's a diferent thread lol. And I agree on the MBW. It is a legend created by the Nexperts who surf the web. But we need to look out in the real world where the money is made. I agree that the information is available. The point I was making is the typicsl buyer is not looking for it. They don't do Google searches because they don't care. They want whatever the girls at the local club will recognize. And that is a modern 10k Daytona.

[By-Tor]

I wasn't talking about street junk. I got my first rep in 1986 or 1987... can't remember. That was a joke & cheap garbage back then and it's cheap garbage now.

I still have the corpse. May it rest in pieces.

[freddy333]

The reason the rap manufacturers don't do vintage is because they make what what sells. Vintage doesn't.

I disagree somewhat. Based on my conversations with DW, Natalie, Phong & other high-end rep sellers, I think the primary reason for the factories' hesitancy in producing more vintage pieces is because of the difficulty in pleasing vintage buyers, who tend to be much more knowledgeable & discriminating than the average rep buyer. 95% of rep watch buyers will happily buy/wear a Canal Street quality Planet Ocean, Richard Mille or Breitling that would make most of us here hurl. But there are far fewer buyers who are familiar with vintage pieces & most of those would not tolerate a vintage rep of the same quality. Point being that it is much easier (& profitable) to produce low-cost crap that you can sell to the masses than it is to spend the time/money to research & produce an accurate rep of a vintage piece that will be inspected for the slightest variation from perfection by 95% of buyers.

[ojciec]

I disagree somewhat. Based on my conversations with DW, Natalie, Phong & other high-end rep sellers, I think the primary reason for the factories' hesitancy in producing more vintage pieces is because of the difficulty in pleasing vintage buyers, who tend to be much more knowledgeable & discriminating than the average rep buyer. 95% of rep watch buyers will happily buy/wear a Canal Street quality Planet Ocean, Richard Mille or Breitling that would make most of us here hurl. But there are far fewer buyers who are familiar with vintage pieces & most of those would not tolerate a vintage rep of the same quality. Point being that it is much easier (& profitable) to produce low-cost crap that you can sell to the masses than it is to spend the time/money to research & produce an accurate rep of a vintage piece that will be inspected for the slightest variation from perfection by 95% of buyers.

Please pardon my ignorance since I am relatively new to RWG, but who is DW, Natalie and Phong? Could you provide a site for me to check out their items?

Also, I'm not sure if I am grasping the argument here correctly or not. This is my take on the replicas: The majority of rep sales are to people who want a watch that will make others believe that it is real and in the end they will have saved thousands of dollars or pounds. To this end, the sales are most often of popular watches that buyers associate with the name (e.g., Submariner, Day Date). For these buyers the image portrayed to others is more important than the satisfaction of having such a watch. Please don't misinterpret this and I must put a caveat to this and that is I am referring to the most common situation (tourists/canal street as it was mentioned). In respect to the other buyers, whom I would categorize as a WIS, a rep is owned with the intent to replicate the genuine and, therefore, is owned for more of a personal satisfaction. Here enters the buyer looking for a vintage piece or an item that is not popular with the masses. I would say that a Rolex Daytona with a Paul Newman dial or an Explorer with a Steve McQueen dial would be representative of this. A Patek Philippe Complication would definitely be such a watch because few people outside of WIS/collectors would even know what these are. In other words, a Rolex Submariner would most likely catch the eye of an unassuming onlooker more than a Patek 1673. I may be wrong, but this is just an opinion.

I cannot tell you the number of times someone looks at my genuine Rolex GMTIIC and says "Is that a new Submariner?" or "I like your Submariner."

Cheers!

[freddy333]

Please pardon my ignorance since I am relatively new to RWG, but who is DW, Natalie and Phong? Could you provide a site for me to check out their items?

DW, Natalie & Phong. There are huge numbers of threads discussing each that you can find via the Search (top right hand corner of every RWG page).

[ojciec]

DW, Natalie & Phong. There are huge numbers of threads discussing each that you can find via the Search (top right hand corner of every RWG page).

Very cool Freddy, Thank you. Like I said in my OP I am relatively new, so "uncovering" all of this new stuff is awesome. Thanks again.

[tbonner1]

Why not try one of the 21J Daytona's with seconds at 6 and no stopwatch function?

You can get them at a good price without having the reliability issue with 7750's.

Edited June 6, 2010 by tbonner1

[marcoxxx1984]

Another question I cannot answer is: why is there an omega with correct subdial spacing that can be easily used for 16520 and factories do not do it??

[ojciec]

Why not try one of the 21J Daytona's with seconds at 6 and no stopwatch function?

You can get them at a good price without having the reliability issue with 7750's.

I like the Daytona as much for its looks as for it's functionality, so I would definitely want the stop watch function to measure speed.