kingkitesurf Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Experts, Will a Swiss VJ7750 with a 9,6,3 layout fit the post 2000 Daytona with the new 28.8 Asian 7750 movement. Apart form the fact of the running sec@9 are not corrct. Will it line up, fit the case and will the subdial canionpins be on the right spot? Anybody have experience with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 (edited) ETA 7750 has a 12-9-6 lay-out.... so no, It will not fit!! The ETA 7753 has a 9-6-3 lay-out but the dimensions are way off. Appart from that the chrono sec. hand from the Asian will not fit on any ETA Valjoux (77xx) movement. Edited September 18, 2006 by Rolexman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 A Swiss Valjoux 7750 with the Asian 7750 B1 transfer gears transplanted just might fit the case physiclaly. After giving this some additional thought since returning your PM, I got to thinking- They offer the Swiss model with this sub dial layout, and most likely with the same case. So, my logic is that they used the Swiss 7750 for those models, B1 transfer bridge and gears, and correct hand set to get it all to work. Just my thoughts on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 A Swiss Valjoux 7750 with the Asian 7750 B1 transfer gears transplanted just might fit the case physiclaly. After giving this some additional thought since returning your PM, I got to thinking- They offer the Swiss model with this sub dial layout, and most likely with the same case. So, my logic is that they used the Swiss 7750 for those models, B1 transfer bridge and gears, and correct hand set to get it all to work. Just my thoughts on it... That is exactly how it is done, but I have never seen these Swiss movements with Asian transfer gear added for sale as spares on their own, only advertised as being in already assembled watches. The ones sold on ebay with this configuration are misrepresented as Swiss - none of them I have seen look to be Valjoux movements with Asia modification. They all appear to be 100% (crap) Asian. Anything claiming to be 7750 with registers at 3/6/9 is going to be a bastard movement. The fact is that there is no such thing as a 100% Swiss 7750 with 9/6/3 layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 As far as I know, the hands on all Asian and Swiss 7750's (7753 or whatever) are all Identical...a 7750 is a 7750 no matter who makes it. As for your original question, a 7750 is a 7750, dial feet, subdial spacing etc...BUT on the new Daytona, there is a new bridge with different spacing than a regular 7750, but you could put this new bridge on the Swiss 7750... Here is a similar procedure with a PAM, should answer some questions... Swapping Swiss and Asian 7750... The real question is Why would you want to do this, I assume you have read my review of the modified seconds at 6 movement and the problems with the 11 extra gears...Swiss or Asian, you still have the same problem - overloaded movement... Best suggestion, and cheapest as well, service the movement (as the Asian 28,800 BPH movement is Very very good), remove the extra 5 gears for seconds, leave the rest as is, and you get a great functioning watch, at a fraction of the price for a Swiss powered one... No matter the make (Swiss or Asian) they all need to be serviced, Swiss 7750 is going to set you back $250 to $400 or more, for the movement alone... RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingkitesurf Posted September 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 As far as I know, the hands on all Asian and Swiss 7750's (7753 or whatever) are all Identical...a 7750 is a 7750 no matter who makes it. As for your original question, a 7750 is a 7750, dial feet, subdial spacing etc...BUT on the new Daytona, there is a new bridge with different spacing than a regular 7750, but you could put this new bridge on the Swiss 7750... Here is a similar procedure with a PAM, should answer some questions... Swapping Swiss and Asian 7750... The real question is Why would you want to do this, I assume you have read my review of the modified seconds at 6 movement and the problems with the 11 extra gears...Swiss or Asian, you still have the same problem - overloaded movement... Best suggestion, and cheapest as well, service the movement (as the Asian 28,800 BPH movement is Very very good), remove the extra 5 gears for seconds, leave the rest as is, and you get a great functioning watch, at a fraction of the price for a Swiss powered one... No matter the make (Swiss or Asian) they all need to be serviced, Swiss 7750 is going to set you back $250 to $400 or more, for the movement alone... RG The Zigmeister, Does this mean, with tha Asian 7750 new movement, that you don't have seconds running and neither have a functioning chrono...Or can you use the chrono as a second hand if you wish...Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Ziggy, Does this mean, with tha Asian 7750 new movement, that you don't have seconds running and neither have a functioning chrono...Or can you use the chrono as a second hand if you wish...Cheers If (and that is a big IF as I will explain) you decided to remove the running seconds gears, then the rest of the watch will work as normal, Chrono seconds will work as normal 12 Hour counter will work as normal 30 Minute counter will work as normal... The only visual difference, is that the seconds at 6 will be frozen... NOW, having said that, I just finished a Daytona with running seconds at 6, the new model with 28,800 beat movement. I serviced and tested the basic movement, then added the extra gears for the running seconds and it tested fine...actually, I wound the watch fully on Sunday, and it was still running this morning when I got up...and I have been playing with the chrono for the past couple of days, and it's working great... So on this example, the movement is working fine WITH the running seconds at 6, so far all the ones I have serviced, are still working fine...at least no one has contacted me to say they stopped working...how they will do in the long run, I can't tell you... RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Surely, the subdials at 6 and 9 are in the same locations on both the Swiss 7750 and the Swiss 7753. If that is the case I would assume that the sub-dial at 3 is similarly aligned and spaced from the centre and that the modified Asain follows the same principle with the sub-dial spacing. Therefore the subdial spacing and 'holes' in the dial should be the same for both movements. Am I missing something obvious here? I also was of the understanding that the newer, high frequency, Asian 7750 does not have the same hand sizes as the older Asian & Swiss ETA /Valjoux 7750 movements. Can anyone confirm? I have one of the new IWC Portuguese chronos on order. It has the new Asain 7750 with seconds running at 6 and no 30 min counter. My long-term concern (at least I hope it will be long term) is about the durability of the modified movement. I have thought that, in the worst case scenario I could replace the movement with a standard Swiss 7750, with the running seconds gear removed, and use the 30 min and hour counters only, in their original positions. In this case the sub-dial at 6 would be incorrectly labelled as 0 - 60 rather than 0 - 30 and I could then leave the chrono running most of the time. Is this a viable solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Surely, the subdials at 6 and 9 are in the same locations on both the Swiss 7750 and the Swiss 7753. If that is the case I would assume that the sub-dial at 3 is similarly aligned and spaced from the centre and that the modified Asain follows the same principle with the sub-dial spacing. Therefore the subdial spacing and 'holes' in the dial should be the same for both movements. Am I missing something obvious here? Yup. The Valjoux 7753 is not a 7750 with the 12 o'clock register still in place but driving a transfer gear to make it appear at the 3 o'clock position. It is a movement built from the ground up to have that register at 3 o'clock. As a result it has its date wheel in a different location to the 7750 also. A modified Asian/Swiss 7750 is effectively a base movement with bits added to its face. This means the pinions for the registers that aren't being transferred have to be longer, and the movement ends up a fair bit thicker. However, the datewheel position is still that for a 7750 (and actually masked for the most part of the face by the transfer gears). A modified 7750 is a visual approximation of a 7753, not a substitute for it. The heavily modified 7750 with seconds at 6 is a visual approximation of a Rolex calibre movement, but again not a substitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Surely, the subdials at 6 and 9 are in the same locations on both the Swiss 7750 and the Swiss 7753. If that is the case I would assume that the sub-dial at 3 is similarly aligned and spaced from the centre and that the modified Asain follows the same principle with the sub-dial spacing. Therefore the subdial spacing and 'holes' in the dial should be the same for both movements. Am I missing something obvious here? I am certain that the subdial location on the Swiss 7750 series are all in the same places. But remember that on this one, there is a new bridge (see my review of it in my subforum) and I am not 100% sure that the subdials are in the same location as the basic Swiss (or Asian) models... I have made a note for myself to measure and note these and will check when I get home tonight. I also was of the understanding that the newer, high frequency, Asian 7750 does not have the same hand sizes as the older Asian & Swiss ETA /Valjoux 7750 movements. Can anyone confirm? I can't imagine that the hour, minute and chrono seconds hands are a different size, the subdials could be (given that they are all on the new added bridge), but I am not sure...will have to wait till I get another one in house and measure them...not going to take the one I have in house apart after full assembly... I have one of the new IWC Portuguese chronos on order. It has the new Asain 7750 with seconds running at 6 and no 30 min counter. My long-term concern (at least I hope it will be long term) is about the durability of the modified movement. I have thought that, in the worst case scenario I could replace the movement with a standard Swiss 7750, with the running seconds gear removed, and use the 30 min and hour counters only, in their original positions. In this case the sub-dial at 6 would be incorrectly labelled as 0 - 60 rather than 0 - 30 and I could then leave the chrono running most of the time. Is this a viable solution? My suggestion is to service the Asian model, and save yourself some $$$. The Asian model is very well made (full review - again in my subforum if you did not read it), and if your going to pay to service a movement, why add to that cost by buying a Swiss 7750 and replacing the Asian one...the Swiss still needs to be serviced... As for the viability of replacing the Asian with a Swiss, I have not tried on this particular model, so I cant' say if it can be done or not... For the long term life of any watch, you have to service it regularly, as you do with your car... My PAM 196 is 20 months old, has the original older problematic Asian 7750 in it, been serviced, I wear it a couple of times a week, use the hell out of the chrono's - all the time - and it still works perfect...going on 2 years now...why would I replace it with a Swiss when this one is working fine... RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I am certain that the subdial location on the Swiss 7750 series are all in the same places. But remember that on this one, there is a new bridge (see my review of it in my subforum) and I am not 100% sure that the subdials are in the same location as the basic Swiss (or Asian) models... I have made a note for myself to measure and note these and will check when I get home tonight. I can't imagine that the hour, minute and chrono seconds hands are a different size, the subdials could be (given that they are all on the new added bridge), but I am not sure...will have to wait till I get another one in house and measure them...not going to take the one I have in house apart after full assembly... My suggestion is to service the Asian model, and save yourself some $$$. The Asian model is very well made (full review - again in my subforum if you did not read it), and if your going to pay to service a movement, why add to that cost by buying a Swiss 7750 and replacing the Asian one...the Swiss still needs to be serviced... As for the viability of replacing the Asian with a Swiss, I have not tried on this particular model, so I cant' say if it can be done or not... For the long term life of any watch, you have to service it regularly, as you do with your car... My PAM 196 is 20 months old, has the original older problematic Asian 7750 in it, been serviced, I wear it a couple of times a week, use the hell out of the chrono's - all the time - and it still works perfect...going on 2 years now...why would I replace it with a Swiss when this one is working fine... RG The Zigmeister, thanks very much for taking the time to advise on these points. When I get the Portuguese chrono a service will be on the cards. I have a Swiss 7750 and genuine dial that I want to have fitted to my IWC GST but I need to know about the hand sizes before I can be sure that I have all the bits I need. Confirmation on this point will be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Rob - what about your experience, that the new 28.8 K movements had often the pallet stones come loose? Is this still topical? I glue all the pallet stones, I am not sure if they are all loose, but if I test them and they move, it's very hard to get them lined up again...so I just glue them down as part of the service... @PAMman As soon as another one comes in for service, I'll measure them and post the sizes. RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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