jraines87 Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 I was reading this article here and was wondering if it's as bad as it sounds or just media hype... Here is a brief except from the article.. Radical Muslims in France's housing estates are waging an undeclared "intifada" against the police, with violent clashes injuring an average of 14 officers each day. Interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy was warned of an 'intifada' As the interior ministry said that nearly 2,500 officers had been wounded this year, a police union declared that its members were "in a state of civil war" with Muslims in the most depressed "banlieue" estates which are heavily populated by unemployed youths of north African origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Baghdad Ryyannon the ersatz Frenchman sez: "I can assure you that there is NO problem of race or religion in France!" "The police are loved here." etc. http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?en...nst_Us&only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexM Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Over exagereted In few months we'll have a presidential election, and some politics have interest by exagerating the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 The article surely speaks for itself. Although it is surprising and commendable that the French are finally waking up. Historically, the French are more likely to lie down and blame themselves than to take a hard line against an aggressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 The French are realists: they know that given current demographics, the country will be majoritalrily Muslim by 2050. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FasTTaP Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Is that from Fox News ? There's nothing like an intifada in France, but big problems arise from poverty, similar to what happenend in LA in the 80's (no that bad, though, but it could be getting worse. Religion has nothing to do with that. Rest assured, our secret service are far better than the CIA, we've been having problems with integrist mulsim since the 50's (Algeria independance, with was managed almost as stupidely as is Irak today). That's what you call experience, I guess... If France decided not to go in Irak, it was NOT for humanist or any moral reasons, it simply was because we knew what was goig to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexM Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Is that from Fox News ? There's nothing like an intifada in France, but big problems arise from poverty, similar to what happenend in LA in the 80's (no that bad, though, but it could be getting worse. Religion has nothing to do with that. Rest assured, our secret service are far better than the CIA, we've been having problems with integrist mulsim since the 50's (Algeria independance, with was managed almost as stupidely as is Irak today). That's what you call experience, I guess... If France decided not to go in Irak, it was NOT for humanist or any moral reasons, it simply was because we knew what was goig to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Respectfully, irrespective of whether the war in Iraq made any sense in the first place (IMHO, probably not) France would never decide to go in. France can't control its own group of violent Muslims and the last thing they need is to get them even more riled up. Unfortunately, the U.S. is doing it for them anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Is that from Fox News ? - No, not from Fox. Haven't checked the source, but the original story broke on French news. "There's nothing like an intifada in France, but big problems arise from poverty, similar to what happenend in LA in the 80's (no that bad, though, but it could be getting worse." - Depends on how you define an 'Intifada': if it means lots of kids and twenty-somethings sniping and throwing rocks and molatov cocktails at the police, firemen and even ambulances, then it is an 'intifada.' On the other hand, dousing a handicapped woman or an ex-girlfriend with gasoline (and cracking a match) is probably not related to religious ideology.... - As for LA, Detroit, Newark, Harlem and other cities, yeah, we've had our share of urban violence. The difference being that the SWAT squads have been literally taking out (assasinating) the high-profile leaders since the 60s (Black Panthers, Black Muslims, etc.). In LA, the police let the population torch South Central and attack KoreaTown - it was all over the news (filmed from a safe distance in helicopters). What you didn't see were the lines of riot police armed with shotguns all up and down the boulevards adjacent to West Hollywood and Beverly Hills.... France's solution to the problem of containment has been to push these people out of the center cities and into the suburb-ghettos. All the authorities have to do is turn off the electricity feeding the suburban trains to prevent rioters from coming into places like Paris. "Religion has nothing to do with that. Rest assured, our secret service are far better than the CIA, we've been having problems with integrist mulsim since the 50's (Algeria independance, with was managed almost as stupidely as is Irak today). That's what you call experience, I guess..." - Aside from the increasing number of death-threats in France against anyone who says anything negative concerning Islam, it isn't so much a religious problem (for the moment) as a total lack of opportunity for second and third generation North African and Sub-Saharan populations to find a place in French society. Reigion may be used as an 'excuse' but the bottom line is the existence of large groups of young people looking for a way to express their anger and frustration at being locked out of the mainstream. In many respects, France is maintaining an unofficial system of Apartheid relative to jobs, housing and even leisure activities (camping sites, discotheques, etc.) At the same time, many of these people are doing their best to live up to the negative expectations of the media and the general population. - As for the DGSE (French Intelligence, whose last high-profile action consisted of dynamiting the Rainbow Warrior in Aukland a number of years ago) and the CIA (too many catastophies to even mention), stupidity knows no national boundaries. It's pretty much SSF = Stupidity Sans Frontiers. In addition to which, today anyone with even half a brain understands that you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing... Particularly if you live in the housing blocks ringing the main cities. "If France decided not to go in Irak, it was NOT for humanist or any moral reasons, it simply was because we knew what was goig to happen." - You forgot to mention that France was pretty much in bed with Saddam - oil and construction contracts, principally, not to mention close ties to various members of the political and financial establishment. Had they gone in, it would have more logical for them to fight the U.S. Army than the Iraqi troops. Of course, the U.S. had been playing in Saddam's sandbox before Bush Pere invaded, but we were totally outta there after we decided to make him into our Bad Guy of the Month.... In conclusion, and as I mentioned above, France (and much of Europe) are going to have to make some hard choices if they don't want to see their grandchildren bowing down and praying in the direction of Mecca five times a day in the not-too-distant future. Just connect the dots of the ideological and demographic curves and you'll see the picture for yourself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FasTTaP Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 ok, ok, I overreacted... I admit Still, I don't see islam as a major danger in France right now (until the next bomb, perhaps), and most of immigrant's kids don't believe in god... As for the stone throwed to police car, I don't see them related to anything religious. (alas, I'm afraid that girl getting burn up are linked to religion)... Sure, France is in bed with Sadam, but hey, Bush has been personnaly financed (and [censored]ed) by the Ben Laden family, no ? What's worse ? Before the invasion of Irak, Saddam used to slaugter islamist in his prisons... now the CIA is doing the same dirty job... Isn't globalization about letting the foreing countries do the dirty job ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 I'm not really (!) trying to criticize France....whose politics are pretty much as sordid, dirty, stupid, unforgivable and selfish as those of the U.S. - and most other countries that consider themselves to be world-class players. It's just that one expects France to be a little better - especially since France, in its own irratating way (very similar to the U.S. with its 'saving the world for democracy') tries to give the world the impression that its domestic and foreign policies ARE better than everyone else's.... On the whole, I'd rather have this conversaton over 'une chope de biere' (or two) at our next Paris GTG, FasTTap. I'm sure that we'll find we agree perfectly on just about everything... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted October 7, 2006 Report Share Posted October 7, 2006 the french are just known not to put up with [censored]! if the government doesnt do stuff for them, they will rebell against it. thats why I love french ppl. they would never say "hey, I vote for that president, because he's against gay marriage! the heck with poltics, who cares about them?" they stand up and fight! oh and btw. chieftang without them french, your country wouldnt be independent! you'd be the [censored] of the crown. I'm pretty thankfull for most of the things the french did in the past! modern democracy was born in france and not in america. almost forgot to mention, I will be in france (paris) next weekend lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted October 7, 2006 Report Share Posted October 7, 2006 the french are just known not to put up with [censored]! if the government doesnt do stuff for them, they will rebell against it. thats why I love french ppl. they would never say "hey, I vote for that president, because he's against gay marriage! the heck with poltics, who cares about them?" they stand up and fight! oh and btw. chieftang without them french, your country wouldnt be independent! you'd be the [censored] of the crown. I'm pretty thankfull for most of the things the french did in the past! modern democracy was born in france and not in america. almost forgot to mention, I will be in france (paris) next weekend lol Are you as funny when you're sober, Slay? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted October 7, 2006 Report Share Posted October 7, 2006 France (and much of Europe) are going to have to make some hard choices if they don't want to see their grandchildren bowing down and praying in the direction of Mecca five times a day in the not-too-distant future. On the bright side, this future could make for some entertaining Old Firm (Celtic v Rangers) matches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted October 8, 2006 Report Share Posted October 8, 2006 What I want to know is this: If the french police go in there and start kicking some ass, will the idiot republicans in the US stop ordering Freedom Fries at McDonalds? (BTW, the Repub who wrote that legislation is now one of the leading proponents of a timetable for getting out of Iraq). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FasTTaP Posted October 8, 2006 Report Share Posted October 8, 2006 I'm not really (!) trying to criticize France....whose politics are pretty much as sordid, dirty, stupid, unforgivable and selfish as those of the U.S. - and most other countries that consider themselves to be world-class players. There is much to be criticized, I'm no patriot and I'm the first to say that our politicians sucks big time :-( It's just that one expects France to be a little better - especially since France, in its own irratating way (very similar to the U.S. with its 'saving the world for democracy') tries to give the world the impression that its domestic and foreign policies ARE better than everyone else's.... Yeah, the way Dominique de Villepin handled his UNO speach was really ill manered, I agree... Knowing our post colonial experience, there's no way we should be allowed to give lessons to anyone. On the whole, I'd rather have this conversaton over 'une chope de biere' (or two) at our next Paris GTG, FasTTap. I'm sure that we'll find we agree perfectly on just about everything... :-) With pleasure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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