Is the Zenith El Primero 3019 the right movement for my Franken Rolex Daytona 16520 project? Experts please pitch in...

[Guest Daytona1984]

hey guys,

i bought a Zenith El Primero 3019 and was wondering, if the gen 16520 dial with hands would fit? what is the difference between the el primero 400 and the 3019?

thank you so much for your help. below you can find some pictures of the movement i bought...

[Guest Sql_pl]

You need to remove the date mechanism to fit it into 16520 case as it is too thin to accomodate el primero with date and it should be fine!

Good luck!

Edited March 11, 2011 by Sql_pl

[Guest Daytona1984]

thanks buddy for your help

any suggestions where to get a case set?

best,

dom

You need to remove the date mechanism to fit it into 16520 case as it is too thin to accomodate el primero with date and it should be fine!

Good luck!

[Guest Sql_pl]

I was lucky to find genuine 16520 case set for my franken but most people use aftermarkets, some good cases were available from George who is now gone. Maybe try Phong from jewelryandwatch.com ?

EDIT: Ndtrading also has a 16520 case:

http://ndtradingcorp.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=204

Edited March 11, 2011 by Sql_pl

[omgiv]

As others have noted, you will have to remove the calendar mechanism for the movement to work. There are only a small number of changes from the 3019 to the 400. The 3019 has been out for a while and has proven to be a good and reliable movement. Because it has been around for so long, your movement will probably need a service unless you know its service history.

How much are you looking to spend on this project? I can speak from experience that it is not a cheap build. You had asked about a genuine dial and hands. The dial will work, but most of the hands will need some modifications in order to fit the Zenith movement. I would recommend changing the cannon pinion (for the minute hand), hour wheel (hour hand), and chronograph wheel (central chronograph seconds). I would also highly recommend replacing the center wheel as well, as the Zenith center wheel will need some modifications so that the Rolex chronograph wheel can pass through it. You can often find the center wheel and cannon pinion sold together. The hour counting wheel has the same size pivot on both movements. I am not sure about the minute counting wheel. The small seconds hand will have to be reduced to fit onto the Zenith fourth wheel pivot. I am in the middle of doing my own 16520 project and will post more with pictures when I have something to show. I was also going to take measurements for future reference.

As for a case..... I would stay away from the NDT case. I don't really think their case is very accurate for the price they ask. I do believe there is someone still selling the old MBW style cases. You will just have to ask around and see if you can find one. I want to say they were asking around $700 or so. I am going with a Phong case myself. It has been used before and looks nice. Plus, it is much cheaper than finding a genuine case.

Best of luck on your project and keep us posted!!!!!

[HauteHippie]

Phong sells a fantastic case which is indistinguishable from a service replacement case. And he also sells a crap case that is indistinguishable from the NDT case. Phong also does excellent engraving.

Good luck with the gen hands on the 3019. I don't recommend crimping. Gotta go with gen pinions.

[Guest Daytona1984]

@ omgiv and chieftang

thank you so much for your advice! i will keep you posted...

[Guest Sql_pl]

Problems with hands not working well with stock el primero is what made me sell mine. Hope you can find gen pinions.

[firansky]

hi guys

need help

i need agood case for a 16520 where can i buy?

[Guest Sql_pl]

Just read all posts that are right above yours

[HauteHippie]

Problems with hands not working well with stock el primero is what made me sell mine. Hope you can find gen pinions.

Yep, gotta go with gen pinions. They work like charm for the hands, but somehow make winding the beast a bit dodgy... Nothing major, though.

[Watchmeister]

I bought mine from Ubi and it came with George's case if I remember correctly. I don't think that particular one is made anymore but it compares very favorably with the gen case set. Ubi's other case is a gen set if you look at his pics. Add a gen bezel, crystal and pushers and you are good to go. I have to agree with Chief. Go with gen pinions. it changes the whole feel of the movement. Mine feels so much more solid when setting. The winding is a little dodgy but you won't be going nuts over your sub-dial hands not reseting correctly.

[jj69]

I noticed that the jewelryandwatch.com site says "Provide us your Zenith movement Dial, Hands. We do conversion to 4030

and complete instalation to S.S case model 16520 perfect like factory."

Has anyone had this done by them? Do they do a nice job? Price?

Also, how much is their 16520 case set? There is no price on the site.

[freddy333]

I noticed that the jewelryandwatch.com site says "Provide us your Zenith movement Dial, Hands. We do conversion to 4030 and complete instalation to S.S case model 16520 perfect like factory."

Has anyone had this done by them? Do they do a nice job? Price?

Also, how much is their 16520 case set? There is no price on the site.

I do not know Phong's pricing in this case, but it is always (too) high. What I can tell you is that, based on an inspection of 1 of Phong's watches along with my conversations with Ziggy (who has more experience with them than I have), I would recommend that you factor in the cost of a proper overhaul upon receipt of any pre-assembled Phong watch (or, in general, standard reps from any source). Many of Phong's parts look like they could have come from Rolex, but his watches look like they were put together by Polex, if you get my meaning.

[Watchmeister]

On Phong I am with Freddy. If you are willing to pay his prices some of his parts are excellent. But the watchsmithing skills over there are non-existent.

[omgiv]

You are not going to get a Rolex 4030 for that price. The parts to truly convert are more than he asks. He supposedly has 2 different priced cases. One is $1450 and the other is $1650. I just ordered the mid-case and caseback yesterday (since everything else will be genuine). Will post pictures next week.

[chiman12]

I just ordered the mid-case and caseback yesterday (since everything else will be genuine). Will post pictures next week.

Do you mind letting us know how much Phong charges for just the mid-case and case back?

[omgiv]

He charged me $1000 for the mid-case and back.

[jj69]

He supposedly has 2 different priced cases. One is $1450 and the other is $1650.

Wow. That's like 2-3 times the price I was expecting. Can't a gen case be had for little more than those prices?

[Guest Sql_pl]

I paid $3k for gen case.

[omgiv]

There is no doubt that Phong's cases are expensive. You might be able to find the MBW case for around $700 (if you can find one). I haven't seen a genuine case come up for sale (just the case), and I have been doing mine for quite a while. I don't think that a good case would sell for less than $2000. If you are going to add genuine parts, a 16520 is not a cheap build. Also, Phong will charge you $1250 to make you Zenith movement into a "4030", and that doesn't include the rotor. It certainly is an expensive project and that is partly why it is taking me so long

[Guest Sql_pl]

Expect to drop around $5-6k on such build guys (when you want to go as gen as possible).

[chiman12]

He charged me $1000 for the mid-case and back.

Thanks!

[jj69]

Expect to drop around $5-6k on such build guys (when you want to go as gen as possible).

For it to make sense from my perspective, it would have to be done for half that amount. I would have no problem budgeting $1k for a donor movement and $700 for a case, so that would leave another $1k for dial, hands, pinions and labor. Am I completely out of the ballpark here?

I have no interest in mods to the appearance of the movement, and I could live with a rep bracelet, if that helps.

[omgiv]

I would figure at least $200-300 for the parts you would need (cannon pinion, hour wheel, chronograph wheel). I would also highly recommend the center wheel, but that is just me. The service will also be at least $300, plus more if there is extra labor in the assembly. Most dials I have seen go for around $700 and the hands are at least $250. You may be able to find a good deal hear and there but these are prices I have seen on the forums and eBay. Keep in mind that if you are going through the trouble of using a genuine dial and hands, your case may have things you want to fix (crystal, bezel, pushers, crown and stem). I don't want to discourage you at all, but doing a project like this on the cheap will be tough.