Can PAM A6497 Manuals be replace with any Auto Movements, please?

[JimmyGee]

I have a heap of PAMs with Asian 6497 Manual Movements. I am finding that they are all starting to loose their Crown and Stems. Have about 50 Reps (70/30 Pams/Rolex) so obviously I can't give any new arrival a decent test run, but when I do the Asian A6497 start to loose their Crowns and Stems, some as soon as 6 winds = 7 days wrist time.

No use complaining or getting upset, so all I would like to know is if it is possible to have "someone" remove the Asian 6497 Manual Movement and replace them with any Automatic Movement? I reason that if an Asian 6497 Manual Movement is good for 6 winds (= 7 days wear) before falling apart, then even if I get the worst and cheapest Automatic, I can wind it once, wear it for a year (sometimes strapping it to my shins, so that I can put a different watch on my wrist) and after about a year of not having to wind it, I could then just bin it, before the Movement fails, so that way I won't get agro that the movement has failed.

So my question is: Is their anyone in the world that will replace all my Pam Asian 6497 Manual Movements with any Automatic Movement that fits and won't charge me an arm and a leg as I know that some cheap Automatic Asian Movements cost the Dealers about $8.00 each. I know this 'coz a Dealer told me that his "Advertised: Top End, High Quality Asian Movement" costs him $8.00 each. Now that was silly of him? But if you knew "him" you would not find it silly at all.

Seriously, I would love to replace all my PAM Manuals for Autos, if I could, but not at £100 each. Something more reasonable as half of them cost less than £100 to start with. Unfortunately for me, I love the Vintage and they are the Manual Ones and it is such a pain just being able to look at these watches and not wear them because the darn Crown has fallen off half of them. So have Super glue the Crown Back on so it looks good in my display cabinet. Just in case you thing I am mad, well I am not,because I have bought Supper Glue Remover, so if I ever find someone to replace the Movements I can un-stick the Crowns. PLEASE, HELP.

[miagi]

firstly, ouch, i sense pain in your writing.

But i would not think that dial,hands,stemposition would mach up with any automatic movement... and 6497 is as basic a movement as there is , and "less parts and complications = less things that can go wrong" .. and u say the crown has come off... stems for 6497's are easily available to my knowledge.. The handwound movement is also an excelent entrypoint to learning the craft of working on your own watches, if it pleases.

cheers. miagi

[Drulee]

I think you need to explain what has gone wrong with your Asian 6497 movements a bit more. The A6497 is one of the more reliable replica movements out there, and much easier to fix than an automatic movement.

You will have a tough time replacing your manual wind movement with automatic ones, as the dials, hands, and cases are not interchangeable between the two ...

[JimmyGee]

Thanks miagi

I am an absolute beginner, but tonight I whitened The Numerals on a Bezel of an otherwise nice DSSD. I can now wear it as I couldn't before looking at the obvious flaw compared to the Gen I admire every day through the Watch Retailers Window. Thanks to Tim for his help and guidance or nothing would have been done.

My next task was removing the back plate off my (6 Winds) PAM with the Fallen Out Crown and a shortish looking stem. Had a look inside and found that the stem has either broken in two as the rest of the stem is still in the watch, or if the stem is that short, but then how does it attach to the rest of the stem in the watch?

I like getting my fingers dirty and don't mind making mistakes, if I learn from them. I don't know is anyone sells a Manual for an A6497 but if they did, then I would love one. I sent a Pam with a broken stem away to be fixed and 6 months later I'm still waiting on the watch to be returned. A 5 minute Job at most, for a watchmaker/Repairer.

The Trusted Dealer who sold me the watch has not responded to my 5 nice emails and it was suggested to me to write a Review of the Watch on his Site, only to find that I can't start a new topic against that Dealer. I didn't even mention his name on the forum as I wouldn't do that without an Admin or Mods approval first. I could name him here, but I wont.

Yes, if I had a manual of the A6497 is would be a great place to start leaning how watches work, and I would be brave enough to try and repair myself. I don't want to send it half way around the world only to be charged as much as the watch cost me to just repair the crown and stem. Best is if I learn by my self. I can buy a Asian 6497 movement my self but can I find the the confidence in removing Dial and Hands and Other Things on the watch. This is a real Nob question: is it easier to just replace the Movement or is it cheaper o buy the stem of the Crown and can I attach the Crown to a stem or is it all one piece?. I will now look for a manual and hope that I can find one.

Your email was very informative and has shown me a new way of looking at this problem, that in the end, may prove to be very beneficial. So thank you very much. Do you know if the A6497 can be converted to an Automatic Version? But I guess that the Spinning Winding Plate would not fit in the case?

Anyway, thank you so much.

Cheers,

Jim

[Drulee]

I think it would probably be a good idea to read up on the various movements, in the Knowledge Base section of the forum. After reading a few 6497 and 7750 related threads there, you'll have a better idea of what the differences are between automatic and manual movements.

[Jkay]

I am an absolute beginner, but tonight I whitened The Numerals on a Bezel of an otherwise nice DSSD. I can now wear it as I couldn't before looking at the obvious flaw compared to the Gen I admire every day through the Watch Retailers Window. Thanks to Tim for his help and guidance or nothing would have been done.

Congratulations, but I have a question. Since the genuine DSSD has insert numerals made of platinum then why would painting the rep insert numbers white make them better or more gen-like?

Rolex vapor-deposits platinum over the entire insert, and then buffs away all the platinum metal on the surface, leaving the recessed numbers plated.

This is a picture of a pure platinum nugget - notice it is not white.

[chubbchubb]

The 6497 is probably one of the most reliable rep movements out there. That is because it's simple, has minimal features (only running second) and is build like a truck compared to some other movements out there. I have been collecting reps for a very long time and I currently have 10+ Pams with this movement. None of them have ever died on me, while at the same time, I had to replace / repair a few A7750. It makes no sense to replace the 6497 with lets say an A7750 as the hands will not fit, you will have to mill a movement holder because of the different diameters of the movements and for some watches it will not work at all because of the height of the case and the differing heights of the movements.

A stem - on a previously working watch - can only come off if either

1.) the keyless works are defective

2.) the stem has been fractured

Option 1 is rarely the case if the watch has not been opened and the movement been tampered with. It happens mostly when people open their watches and put too much force on the release pin of the stem when they try to uncase the movement. If you did not do that, then i find it hard to believe you have more than one watch with that defect.

Option 2 is 99,9% user driven. If people forget that they are dealing with a delicate mechanical piece and not a jackhammer and twist with too much force when winding the watch. If the movement doesn't wind easily, then it is time for a service and not for more force on the winding stem. Once the movement is full wound, you should stop winding. To back up my claim - I've collected watches for more than 30 years and of all the many watches that have gone through my hands (both rep and gen), I've never ever had a fractured stem.

The crown could theoretically come off because it is usually screwed onto the stem an secured with some sort of Loctite. As all such connections, it could become loose. This is no big deal to repair and has nothing to do with the type of movement that is in your watch.

To sum things up: I don't see how the type of movement will solve problems. If watches are not handled with care and serviced once in a while, any movement will eventually die. A crown that unscrews from the stem can be repaired and this problem has no coherence with the type of movement in your watch. A broken stem is most likely your own fault, not the movements.

PS: May I suggest that next time you add a few pictures of the problem. Reason being that in the rep world, there are many different qualities of watches (&movements) available. Not all 6497 are the same. If my experience comes from a cheap Canal Street POS, it will not necessarily translate to your DSN Pam. So without pictures, there is room for mistake.

[JimmyGee]

I think you need to explain what has gone wrong with your Asian 6497 movements a bit more. The A6497 is one of the more reliable replica movements out there, and much easier to fix than an automatic movement.

You will have a tough time replacing your manual wind movement with automatic ones, as the dials, hands, and cases are not interchangeable between the two ...

I like Vintage and inevitably the Vintage Reps are manual. 3 of my PAM A6497 Manuals have had the Crown and (some) of the stem fall off. The stem is about 1/2 inch long, so I don't know if the 1/2 inch stem is all the stem or if it has broken off and the rest of it is inside the watch. I'm looking for a manual for the A6497 so that I can learn from it and do my own repairs. I live in England and and there is no one here that do Reps Repairs. Trusted Dealer like: Davidsen, DW and BK service and repair their own watches. Some of the others make you cry with sob stories as to why you should just accept that a $128 watch should only last 6 winds before the stem breaks or falls off. I have a watch with a A6497 Crown and stem out being fixed and that was 6 months ago and I am still waiting for the watch to be returned.

Cheers,

JimmyyGee

[Drulee]

I like Vintage and inevitably the Vintage Reps are manual. 3 of my PAM A6497 Manuals have had the Crown and (some) of the stem fall off. The stem is about 1/2 inch long, so I don't know if the 1/2 inch stem is all the stem or if it has broken off and the rest of it is inside the watch. I'm looking for a manual for the A6497 so that I can learn from it and do my own repairs. I live in England and and there is no one here that do Reps Repairs. Trusted Dealer like: Davidsen, DW and BK service and repair their own watches. Some of the others make you cry with sob stories as to why you should just accept that a $128 watch should only last 6 winds before the stem breaks or falls off. I have a watch with a A6497 Crown and stem out being fixed and that was 6 months ago and I am still waiting for the watch to be returned.

Cheers,

JimmyyGee

Lots of info on how to repair the 6497 in that "Knowledge Base" link I posted above. In fact answers to all your questions and complaints can be found just by browsing/searching the forum .......

Edited July 28, 2011 by Drulee

[JimmyGee]

The 6497 is probably one of the most reliable rep movements out there. That is because it's simple, has minimal features (only running second) and is build like a truck compared to some other movements out there. I have been collecting reps for a very long time and I currently have 10+ Pams with this movement. None of them have ever died on me, while at the same time, I had to replace / repair a few A7750. It makes no sense to replace the 6497 with lets say an A7750 as the hands will not fit, you will have to mill a movement holder because of the different diameters of the movements and for some watches it will not work at all because of the height of the case and the differing heights of the movements.

A stem - on a previously working watch - can only come off if either

1.) the keyless works are defective

2.) the stem has been fractured

Option 1 is rarely the case if the watch has not been opened and the movement been tampered with. It happens mostly when people open their watches and put too much force on the release pin of the stem when they try to uncase the movement. If you did not do that, then i find it hard to believe you have more than one watch with that defect.

Option 2 is 99,9% user driven. If people forget that they are dealing with a delicate mechanical piece and not a jackhammer and twist with too much force when winding the watch. If the movement doesn't wind easily, then it is time for a service and not for more force on the winding stem. Once the movement is full wound, you should stop winding. To back up my claim - I've collected watches for more than 30 years and of all the many watches that have gone through my hands (both rep and gen), I've never ever had a fractured stem.

The crown could theoretically come off because it is usually screwed onto the stem an secured with some sort of Loctite. As all such connections, it could become loose. This is no big deal to repair and has nothing to do with the type of movement that is in your watch.

To sum things up: I don't see how the type of movement will solve problems. If watches are not handled with care and serviced once in a while, any movement will eventually die. A crown that unscrews from the stem can be repaired and this problem has no coherence with the type of movement in your watch. A broken stem is most likely your own fault, not the movements.

PS: May I suggest that next time you add a few pictures of the problem. Reason being that in the rep world, there are many different qualities of watches (&movements) available. Not all 6497 are the same. If my experience comes from a cheap Canal Street POS, it will not necessarily translate to your DSN Pam. So without pictures, there is room for mistake.

Thank you. Point taken and I bow down to someone with greater knowledge and accept what you say. When I get time I will photo the stem. I have had one with a repairer for 6 months and have given up any hope of getting it back. I've had a heap that have broken (but I am sure they were cheap Autos) which I bought from the man at the Malls, mate but they are all (ship), so I am buying no more from him. One of his Pams' is turning bronze in my display box as we speak. It was stainless steal but then again I like the new unique Pam Bronzo, so I am hoping to have this Unknown Model turn to Bronze or Brass or whatever the brown stuff is. Given all but this one back to the man in the Mall. So, I should say that I have only had 2 failures from dealers on Rep Watch Forums. One was a Perfect "Something" (so not sure if he is trusted?) The other failure was from Pure Time and 5 polite emails later, once a week, but gave up weeks ago, so in desperation sent the watch to my mates man at the Mall..............................It is a watch I particular like, as it has the Rolex dial but is a Vintage Pam style watch. The stem did break after I wore it 6 days running. Did I do something wrong? Maybe? But I don't know what. The fact that the trader has not replied to 5 polite emails and he is a trusted dealer (censored) me off somewhat. I have sent the watch to two people. One was the Mall Man's supplier of crap watches and he claimed it was a gen Rolex and wanted £80 to repair the broken steam, so I offered to sell it to him for £10,000 for this Chinese genuine Replica (shows you what he knows about watches). I told my Mall man, I will pay £15.00 to have the stem replaced and no more. The Mall man's repairer claimed he could not fix it, so off it went elsewhere. I found a screw missing in the movement and so did "elsewhere" found a screw missing. So rather than stuff around any longer, I have bought another 6497 movement and waiting for it to arrive, and will send it to my mate "the Elsewhere guy" to change the Movement. If it were a different dial I would have binned it. But as I said, I like the dial too much and no where else sells this model and even if the trusted dealer has been having problems, by what I read, with his Vickie or Nickie or someone with a similar name, I have not received any correspondence from the man himself. Not wishing to make waves or get myself band for saving bad things about a trusted dealers, I decided to by a new the new A6497 'coz the supplier said she could not get a Swiss Gen (see I like the dial so much that I would have agreed to pay more for an Decent movement that the watch it's self). I now that pictures save a million wo0rds, but a photo of a broken stem is a photo of a broken stem and nothing exiting about that? Would rather know where to buy another Stem next time, thus saving me to fork out for a new movement each time a stem breaks???? With close to 100 Reps and Gens. Some of my older models are Pocket watches modelled in or designed in 1856 or some such time, and not one of them failing in my hands, I am not so sure that it is me stuffing these Asian 6497 Movements? Also having so may watches means that some don't even get wrist time for a year after purchase and it's funny having spent over $600 for some of my reps the one i an always wearing was a $88 watch from Replica make that don't sell it any more and stuffed if I can work out their paying requirements as they keep saying they will sent a "how to pay email, and to do nothing until I get this email, months later I still have not bot an email and by the time I discovered that it is not really an email but a notice in their Web Site the 3 days are up so I can't buy the watch anyway as I am an unworthy villain or something similar. Pity as they have some nice stuff and although I still buy only from our Trusted dealers ONLY, I am finding that I am buying only from Davidsen for pams 'coz he repairs my "dropped" from a great height Pams (if they are his) and he only charges me $30 for an new 6497 and a service. Never even come close to breaking any of his stems break off? Maybe 'coz they come lubricated and not done dry? Can tell in the ease of winding that they are not bone dry. My Daytona's from David Wong as again he looks after his customers perfectly and BK for whatever he is offering as it becomes the best Rep when he does his Mods.

[FxrAndy]

Jimmy it seams to me that you may have been unlucky with some of your purchases i would like to see a pic of one of these broken stems and then we may be able to tell you why and what is happening

[JimmyGee]

Jimmy it seams to me that you may have been unlucky with some of your purchases i would like to see a pic of one of these broken stems and then we may be able to tell you why and what is happening

Thank You Very Much. I have the watch all parcelled up at present, but will unwrap it and take Photos of the Crown and Stem.

It's a long boring story as to why the watch is parcelled up. Suffice to say is that a Screw is missing from the Movement and so decided to buy an another Movement and waiting for it's arrival before sending both the Watch and new Movement to a mate from this Site to have the movement fitted.

Thanks to everyone, as all your comments have been very much appreciated.

[JimmyGee]

Probably asked a million times already. Is there anyone in the UK that does watch repairs or servicing? My Davidsen watches go back to him for a Service and Postage both ways for $30.00. And rightly so, he doesn't touch other peoples watches. I bought maybe 30 reps when I was an even bigger Nob than I am now and have nowhere to service them. They are nice watches but at the lower end price wise so sending them to Domi in Germany is not cost effective. Domi did a asian for swizz movement swap and service on a new DW Daytona, but it cost me more than the watch.

So, when the "Crown and Stem" gets that dry, gritty feeling, unlike my Davidsen, then what? Have found one guy in he UK on this site but he has had one of my watches for over 9 months, for another PAM "Crown Stem Job" and each time I ask, which is once every 3 months, he says he suffers from Alzheimer's. A great guy, but that is not what services watches and with his "problem" I would loose my watches one by one if I sent them there. My local gen. shop man who sells me my Gen. Pocket Watches (and not one has had a broken "Stem" in over a 100 years) won't touch my Reps.

Please help, if you can. would appreciate a name of a dealer that does servicing as well and is not drop ship.

Thanks.

[JimmyGee]

I have several gen vintage pocket watches, one 100 + years old they are still running perfectly, as are all of my late 1940's Gen. Art Decor wrist watches. Ordered a new 6497 for the watch in question. Got the Movement, and sent everything off to get it fixed to my RWG mate. His report that he had (or had) stuffed the movement, so I go sick of it and told my mate to keep the watch and the 2 stuffed up A6497 Movements as the watch cost me $218, plus a new movement including shipping cost $50, and I didn't want to spend another $50, so told my mate to keep it.all or bin it. Ordered myself a new Pam with Rolex movement from Davisen and got it in a week. Problem gone. Cost me twice as much as the $128 from our TD who does not answer emails about his watches when they go wrong and I will not be buying from him again. I can't take a photo any more of the broken stem as the watch is gone, and the last I heard was that my RWG mate was having a hard time getting the $50 back from the Dealer and a New Movement from the people I bought the replacement 6497 movement from. I guess I am the problem because i don't get the A6497 movements serviced before I wear the watches, but honestly, why would I bother sending a $128 watch to the Continent just to get a service as it will cost me another $128 to have it serviced if I include postage both ways? There is no one in the UK that services rep watches, so all I can do is wind them real gentle or just leave them in my display box and wear the cheap Asian Auto's until they breaks down and none have so far. Well one did, but I don't think it counts, because it was bought from a Trusted Dealer who is NOT Trusted on Our Site for GOOD reasons. My mate was staying over with me last January and saw my Gen Pam 312 and wanted to buy a rep. He saw one and bought it from what turned out to be a "Mad Man" who runs "frantic $99 specials" on other Sites. As soon as my mate started to wind his rep Pam 312, the watch stated to fall to pieces. Boy did this "Nutter" go off the brain. He found every filthy word he could find and blamed my mate for his watch falling apart. When I finely got it back from his repair man, my mate was back in Ozz. I checked the watch against my Gen and the darn dial was not even a Pam312. Don't know what it is. Wrote to the Mad Man on my mates behalf and didn't I get a mouth full? He told me I had mistaken him for someone that gave a (censored) about his watches I assume? This guy is so powerful on these other sites that he can get people banned just because they say they will give him bad press on these other sites. So of these other site won't let me join because they think I'm my mate from Ozz, just because he was using my Computer in January LOL. I don't care if these other sites let me join or not as I have everything I need in WRG. Sure, we have a Trusted Dealer who does not answer emails if his $128 Watches with A6497 inside break a stem because it's made of cr**p, but then he loses out in the long run 'coz that's my last buy from him, and while we have David Wong and Davidsen and the others, then who cares about the Guy who blames his wife or girl friend and never himself? Never answered 6 emails and have read on other posts that he blames his staff for what is ultimately his responsibility. Never Mind. It's just a hobby and it's fun. You win most and you loose a few, but without our Trusted Dealers and RWG we would be at the mercy of Dealers who sell you one handed watches and cry if you ask for a refund or others who sell you $600 watches saying that they are Swiss but turn out to be $50 junk.