Chronus Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Would you wear a jacket that said Victoria's Secret? It's a girls watch, stop looking at it There are currently 4 different grades of ceramic available according to EL. We decided to go with the highest grade and the ceramic does look and feel like the genuine. Mrs. Linder loves hers. The biggest benefit, I would say, would be that we got it last summer and it still does not have any scratches! Did you also get it from EL? I'm wondering on how it felt to you, and how does it compare to Joshua's as they look to be 2 different watches. What are the 4 different grades of ceramics available? I would imagine the lowest value rep is asian movement with metal painted the colour of the ceramic? I would imagine the next level is a rep with metal coated ceramics, And then we move onto a higher level ETA movement with true ceramic, perhaps a lower grade of ceramic than the top rep which uses the best available ? This is just speculation of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonton2000 Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 What movt is in the gen? isnt it an eta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkor Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 My girlfriend wanted this watch badly, but then when she saw the picture of the gen she couldn't get over the difference in the bezel font. Thats the only real noticable difference, everything else is difficult to notice even with side by side pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Is the date "sideways" on the rep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linder Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 More detailed reply via email. We ordered our J12 from EL who told us there were 4 different versions. On the wrist, the difference is the bezel font and the triangle on the second hand. To me, it's a non issue. There aren't any Chanel WIS's running around outing people, in my opinion I believe the bracelet may be constructed differently but ours has been to our local Patek and Rolex AD and compared to a very cheap J12 replica. They used ours as the genuine model for comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 as far as I know, cermaic does not scratch, its about 200.000 times harder than steelö and can only be scratched with a diamond. at least my kitchen knifes which are made of ceramic sad that in their ad. and they are great knifes, you dont need to sharpen them for about 5-10years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 as far as I know, cermaic does not scratch, its about 200.000 times harder than steelö and can only be scratched with a diamond. That depends on the ceramic. Ceramic is dried mud, and the type of mud determines what the finished product will be like. For instance, pottery is ceramic and I doubt anyone would suggest that a terracotta pot would be unscratchable. Therefore, the quality of ceramic used in the J12 reps could, for all I know, be variable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 That depends on the ceramic. Ceramic is dried mud, and the type of mud determines what the finished product will be like. For instance, pottery is ceramic and I doubt anyone would suggest that a terracotta pot would be unscratchable. Therefore, the quality of ceramic used in the J12 reps could, for all I know, be variable. I talked to finepics about ceramics used in dentistry, and he said it is very very tough and durable. The only thing that is possible is it being chipped, but I've seen reviews of the genuine that says the sapphire crystal has gotten chipped from a fall, and nothing happened to the ceramic. Ceramics are also used in such things as industrial boilers and can take punishment. Also, I think EL described 4 levels of this, so the top level is likely to be the most expensive one. Ask him and find out... hopefully he will see this and enlighten us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 That depends on the ceramic. Ceramic is dried mud, and the type of mud determines what the finished product will be like. For instance, pottery is ceramic and I doubt anyone would suggest that a terracotta pot would be unscratchable. Therefore, the quality of ceramic used in the J12 reps could, for all I know, be variable. On my knifes it sais "200.000 times harder than steel", but they do chip easily, thats why one should not cut on things a solid surface (like glas or any other surface that is not a bit flexible) with them. of course there are different grades of ceramic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 as far as I know, cermaic does not scratch, its about 200.000 times harder than steelö and can only be scratched with a diamond. at least my kitchen knifes which are made of ceramic sad that in their ad. and they are great knifes, you dont need to sharpen them for about 5-10years. You're right, from what I've read, the good stuff won't scratch ... now the rep costs upwards of $500 and Linder's wife's one is scratchless after a year's use, so it's possible that it is good ceramic material ? The genuine uses (so Chanel say) NASA grade ceramic material. From what the rep manufacturers tell the dealers, it sounds like they say they use the same material. As long as it doesnt scratch it should be fine I doubt this is a big seller for any dealers... perhaps another group buy like the IWC ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 btw. as far as I know, someone here has a J12 in BLACK, rep AND gen and posted a REVIEW and side by side comparision here or some other place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 btw. as far as I know, someone here has a J12 in BLACK, rep AND gen and posted a REVIEW and side by side comparision here or some other place! Great, if you find the link, please post it here, I'm off to eat now. I may put up a bunch of dealer pics and genuine pics later on too. I've saved a lot of them. I'd like to see a comparison of the white J12 with genuine and rep too That one stands out a bit more, a little more unusual. I'll have a black watch once the 028 gets PVD'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 (edited) Chronus, a few thoughts.... Firstly, ceramic.... Eddie is right in that there are many grades of ceramic. For instance ceramic blades are NOT used for surgical instruments as despite their durability and 'sharpness' they are too brittle (SS is still the king ). They are however used medically in microtomes in the lab (think salami slicer at your local deli ) to cut tissue samples into extremely fine sections ('waffffffer-thin', for you Python fans out there ) and more significantly in joint implants. And dental cosmetics too as FP stated. Then there's the tiles used on the Shuttle (massively heat-resistant but actually designed to shatter and break), the fine ceramic used for hundreds of years in the manufacture of porcelain (from Meissen and Satsuma Dynasty kilns to your local garden centre plant pots). And now watches.... And so to the J12.... As you've already heard, whichever way you look at it, it's a GIRL'S WATCH appealing to label junkies, wallet vampires and the like (various members GFs/wives excepted of course ). It's a fashion piece, end of, albeit a very expensive one (even as a rep ). Oh and only this week (in a London bar) I've seen a diamond-encrusted black J12 on the wrist of a wannabe rap star, kind of sums it up . I understand your attraction, no really I do it's an intriguing watch especially in the chrono contrasting-linked Superleggera version which I toyed with a few months back, but ultimately when you put it up against the usual suspects, I think it lacks class. Fight the urge, man!!!!!! Edited October 27, 2006 by docblackrock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 I'm trying (and the price is helping!) but I'm intrigued by the material for one. Also the look. Definitely different, and I like different - especially the white one. At least it isn't a diamond-encrusted one ... there are those reps too but not for me. I had my fill of "diamonds" with the MBW R*l*x Two Tone Sub Serti. I don't know I 'll keep thinking about it. Maybe I should go to a shop and see the real thing... maybe it's not as good in person... or will this be one of my infamous chase-the-rep-and-get-it then wear it a couple of times and put it away ? If nothing else I'll wear it clubbing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Great, if you find the link, please post it here, I'm off to eat now. I may put up a bunch of dealer pics and genuine pics later on too. I've saved a lot of them. I'd like to see a comparison of the white J12 with genuine and rep too That one stands out a bit more, a little more unusual. I'll have a black watch once the 028 gets PVD'd I think it was over at RWI. Try&look there, because I cant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 I think it was over at RWI. Try&look there, because I cant. Sadly I've never been able to access RWI, always comes up with an internet page error Can anyone repost it here, or copy over the pictures and comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linder Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 You guys didn't search very hard Start here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 busted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 You guys didn't search very hard Start here Thanks for that... I'm kinda making dinner while looking here too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 The genuine uses ETA2892A2 based movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonton2000 Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 The genuine uses ETA2892A2 based movement. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tag Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 (edited) On my knifes it sais "200.000 times harder than steel", but they do chip easily, thats why one should not cut on things a solid surface (like glas or any other surface that is not a bit flexible) with them. of course there are different grades of ceramic! On the MOHS scale: Diamond: 10 High tech ceramic: 9 Steel: 5 Gold: 2.5 How about titanium? I thought it is harder than ceramic. But I heard it scratches easilly? EDIT: I found it: Aluminum 2 to 2.9 Gold (pure) 2.75 Silver (pure) 3.25 Platinum (pure) 4.3 Glass 5 to 6 Titanium 5 to 6 (strongly impurity dependent); SS 5 to 8.5 Platinum-Iridium (950) 6.5 Quartz 7 Titanium nitride (TiN) 9 Corundum (sapphire) 9 Diamond 10 I think TiN is the coating used on IWC GST. I'm not sure - no time to do some more research. So SS could be harder than Titanium ... Edited March 1, 2007 by tag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 On the MOHS scale: Diamond: 10 High tech ceramic: 9 Steel: 5 Gold: 2.5 How about titanium? I thought it is harder than ceramic. But I heard it scratches easilly? EDIT: I found it: Aluminum 2 to 2.9 Gold (pure) 2.75 Silver (pure) 3.25 Platinum (pure) 4.3 Glass 5 to 6 Titanium 5 to 6 (strongly impurity dependent); SS 5 to 8.5 Platinum-Iridium (950) 6.5 Quartz 7 Titanium nitride (TiN) 9 Corundum (sapphire) 9 Diamond 10 I think TiN is the coating used on IWC GST. I'm not sure - no time to do some more research. So SS could be harder than Titanium ... Titanium is lighter and stronger than stainless steel, but may scratch more easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochenbrau Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 My girlfriend sports a gen J12..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Brick Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Guys, remember Rado has been making ceramic watches for years. I have a gen Cupole Ceramic and it looks like the day I bought it 12 years ago. No chips or scratches. Also a real ceramic band feels "silky", at least mine does. IMHO ceramic is an ideal material for a watch and the Channel (from the sounds of it) proves it can be convincingly repped for less. .. and yes, I'm a n00b . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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