Vintage Sub & Sd Crown & Crown Tube Sizes

[freddy333]

Does anyone know the correct crown and crown tube sizes for vintage Rolex 5514 and 1665 watches?

I need to remove the existing crown (which looks like a modern (larger) SD crown) & crown tube in a few vintage reps to do proper crown guard mods and I figured that I might as well replace the rep parts with gens since the process of removal and reinstallation of the crown tubes are similar, but the end result (with a narrower (vintage) gen crown instead of a wider (new style) rep crown) would be better.

I'm kind of following Ziggy's crown tube tutorial, but he performed his transplant on a (newer) Yacht Master model, which I suspect uses one of the current wider(?) crowns. So I'm not sure if the crown (7mm) and crown tube (3mm) he used would be the correct size for vintage Subs/SDs. I know that the crown widths (i.e., the left-to-right width of the crown when viewed from the front of the watch) were narrower on earlier vintage models. So I thought I ought to check before going through the process only to find out later that a too large gen crown looks "fake" on a vintage watch.

Ubiquitious, any thoughts?

[thewightstuff]

ive always considered putting the older style crown and tube back onto my 5512 as its had the newer style fitted at some point.

this is however a rolex service swap out and general consensus is that the benefits from using the better designed newer style outweigh having the older style.

i know where your coming from though. they look nice.

i always though a trial with a datejust or similar 6mm twinlock crown might be worth a try if i got a rep together to work on. they are really easy to get an similar in design and look

[Heywood]

The older crowns and tubes are hard to come by and expensive when you can find them. If you are going to replace your crowns and tubes the modern genuines are your best bet. I saw an old twinlock sub crown for sale on VRF about a week ago for 100 euros. These older crowns were routinely upgraded to triplock crowns when they were serviced, so a triplock is easily believable.

[ubiquitous]

For a Sub/SD of this era, your crown options are the 7mm Twinlock, or the 7mm Triplocks; to further clarify, there are two different flavors of Triplock- vintage from the late 60's - 70's and then the current modern crowns.

Since I like pictures, here is one to illustrate the Twinlock:

Here is an early Triplock with cheese...

And of course, modern Triplock...

Note the differences in coronet on the Triplocks....

The modern Triplocks are the easiest to find... The vintage Triplocks and Twinlocks pop up from time to time, but are usually a fair bit more expensive, and not quite as frequently found. In addition, the Twinlock requires a specific tube, as the threads in the Twinlock go right to the opening (whereas the Triplocks start halfway inside and go up to clear the external tube gasket).

Hope this helps...

Best,

R

[freddy333]

ive always considered putting the older style crown and tube back onto my 5512 as its had the newer style fitted at some point.

this is however a rolex service swap out and general consensus is that the benefits from using the better designed newer style outweigh having the older style.

i know where your coming from though. they look nice.

Yes, I think you've got the idea. However, just to be clear, I'm aiming at the early Triplock; the crown that's kitted-out an o-ring gasket that becomes visible when the crown is screwed out to time-setting position; not the Twinlock, which doesn't have this gasket. And I'm not really concerned with the style of coronet on the cap of the crown (though it'd be a nice bonus if I could get that right, too). What I'm more concerned with is how wide the knurled part of the crown is when you view the watch from the front. That is, the knurled portion of the crown on current Subs and SDs is relatively wider than the same section of the crown on, say, 70s/80s models.

One of the things that usually betrays a rep as being a rep (and not a genuine Sub/SD) is the width of the crown. I know that Rolex often replaces earlier crowns with later versions during service, but I don't think I've ever seen them replace a narrow vintage crown with one of the current (wide) ones. It usually seems to be something about half way between the two and that's probably what I'm aiming for. The rep 5514 that I'm working on now came with one of these wide crowns, which doesn't look at all right on a watch with an acrylic (domed) crystal.

Does that make sense?

[freddy333]

For a Sub/SD of this era, your crown options are the 7mm Twinlock, or the 7mm Triplocks; to further clarify, there are two different flavors of Triplock- vintage from the late 60's - 70's and then the current modern crowns.

[....]

The modern Triplocks are the easiest to find... The vintage Triplocks and Twinlocks pop up from time to time, but are usually a fair bit more expensive, and not quite as frequently found. In addition, the Twinlock requires a specific tube, as the threads in the Twinlock go right to the opening (whereas the Triplocks start halfway inside and go up to clear the external tube gasket).

Hope this helps...

Ubiquitious,

Yes, that helps alot!

I don't know if my previous reply (to thewightstuff) narrowed things down a bit, but here's a pic of the watch with its current crown:

While the Twinlock's probably a bit *too* vintage for this model, I think an early Triplock would be fitting (no pun intended). Would that look make sense?

The other question is would the crown and crown tube Ziggy fitted onto the Yacht Master in his tutorial also be correct for this 5514 Comex Sub???

[freddy333]

The older crowns and tubes are hard to come by and expensive when you can find them. If you are going to replace your crowns and tubes the modern genuines are your best bet. I saw an old twinlock sub crown for sale on VRF about a week ago for 100 euros. These older crowns were routinely upgraded to triplock crowns when they were serviced, so a triplock is easily believable.

Thank you for the reply and info.

I think you're right about the Triplock, as long as I can find one that isn't too modern (wide)...

[ubiquitous]

I have an eary Triplock fitted to my MBW 1665... I'll shoot a pic of it tonight when I get home. A picture should tell all

[freddy333]

I have an eary Triplock fitted to my MBW 1665... I'll shoot a pic of it tonight when I get home. A picture should tell all

Yes, absolutely. Thanks.

[freddy333]

I have an eary Triplock fitted to my MBW 1665... I'll shoot a pic of it tonight when I get home. A picture should tell all

Here's an update: I just checked out some vintage Subs and Sea-Dwellers on TZ and in Dowling's Rolex book and they're definitely narrower than the current modern Subs and SDs. In fact, the DRSD I purchased from Andrew @ Trustytime (thanks again, Andrew!) has what looks like a perfect vintage Triplock crown. Here's a comparison of the (too-wide) crown on the 5514 Comex Sub rep I'm currently working on (on right (crown guard modding in process)) and the crown on the DRSD 1665 from Andrew (on left):

Not only is the width of the knurled portion correct on Andrew's DRSD crown, but (similar to the gens) the coronet and dots on the cap are clear, prominent and distinct (sorry, no photo). In fact, it's so accurate that even the (sloping) distance from the edge of the knurled portion to the top of the cap appears to be dead-on. So this rep crown's a good alternative to the gen for modding vintage Subs and SDs (presuming someone knows the source of these rep crowns...Ubiquitous, Ziggy, Ferris Bueller....Anyone???).