vaccum Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 I need to say that servicing this movements takes time tools and skills. Also servicing the 7750 is not an easy task plus if something breaks because of the quality of the components and quality control when assembled at the factory things get worse.... this parts are almost impossible to get and sometimes you need to fabricate parts like the hands LOL We need to understand that the people that provide movemnt service like The Zigmeister, RBJ and myself are doing the best we can with the resources available. Again $200 for the 7750 movement full service is a bargain. Cheers, vaccum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskent69 Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 The Zigmeister - believe me, I will choose to send you my watches every time. AND, I have had an a BMW engine rebuilt (with other "enhancements" at the same time). The cost of the re-build was more than the value of the car. But I like my stuff - I am not a "lease" kind of guy. My gen Seamaster needed servicing after 5 years. All i can say is - I wish I knew you back then when that watch needed servicing. Oh boy. Preventative servicing would have been much cheaper. Some manage their possessions differently. To each their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticore Posted November 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 A simple dip and swish for $75 won't do it, if it's over or under oiled. That rules my watch maker out of the equation who promised me a full service for about $75 and in 24 hours. Come to think of it, I saw a strange machine in his shop that now makes total sense when talking about 'dip and swish'. Back to square one but at least i now know what I'm getting for my $75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBoy Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 (edited) He quoted 1/4 of my cost, so that would be $50 for a full service on a Chrono...wow... Lets see, a chrono takes on average of 5 hours to service the movement alone, all this for $50...sign me up for this one, I see a money making oportunity for someone here... All one has to do is Google watch repair prices from recognized shops, and you'll quickly come to the conclusion that $50 is not going to get you a full correct service on anything, let alone a Chrono... He's arguing for the sake of arguing...in any event it all comes down to choice. He thinks it's too expensive to service a movement in a rep and cheaper to throw it out when it breakes. I keep my watches and don't consider them "Throw Aways" by any means... but to each their own... RG No - I'm not arguing just for the sake of arguing. I just wanted to be clear on the costs and risks involved in servicing vs non-servicing. I've never had ANY watch serviced - and with the exception of ONE (a REP that broke a spring) - none of them have caused me any problems. That goes for GENs and REPs alike. Having read your reviews and arguements I'll certainly be more wary in the future and will take greater care. But I also think you are mis-leading people when it comes to this subject. You make it sound like if you do NOT service an Asian 7750 movement (and within days of receiving it), then it will unequivocally fail. What about all the people that have NOT serviced their watches that still work fine? I don't consider my watches throw-aways either - I simply cannot justify doubling the cost of a watch simply because it MAY last longer. Especially these days when there are so many nice Reps to chose from. I don't want to be stuck with JUST one for the next 5 years. As for the cheap service I was directed to - I will check with them to see what their service offers. All I can go on is what is advertised - and that is a service on a chrono movement (starting at) $50. Fully guaranteed. But if you say that is impossible - then I will defer to you on this. Edited November 23, 2006 by JBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkerouac Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 I wonder about the whole service question when I read about people who buy four or five watches a month and quickly accumulate 20-30 watches -- or more. How many people consider that every watch we purchase is a potential service liability a few years down the line? Sure, some watches I purchase are "disposable," but most are pieces I hope to keep for a long, long time. As a result they will, in time, require service that could otherwise go toward "that next rep." A few years ago I heard a fascinating interview regarding materialism (sorry, but I forget who the speaker was). The author questioned the common assertion that Americans are materialistic. A true materialist, he argued, would value their material belongings rather than accumulate and dispose of them at will. The latter, he suggested, is anti-materialistic and reflects a shortcoming of spirit. In comparison, true materialism and appreciation of material things are spiritual values. Have you ever seen that bumper sticker: "He who has the most toys wins." I don't believe it. We call ourselves watch collectors. But how much do we really care about the watches we own? Or are they merely baubles we accumulate to amuse ourselves for a few years until our next amusement comes along? This is not meant as a blanket indictment, because I know that many (most?) members really do appreciate and care for their watches. And I don't care a bit how many watches you own, or whether or not you plan to ever service them. It's absolutely none of my business. But I ask myself these questions, and perhaps others here also think about these things. Now let's get out there and do some Christmas shopping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 (edited) My (uneducated) position on all this is: As long as these watches are available fairly easily at these prices, it doesn't make much sense to have them serviced if they are working well. However I would keep an eye on it, and at the slightest sign of something going wrong, stongly consider whether you want to get it serviced or run it into the ground. The upside of this is you may well have your watch last 5+ years, and you may be able to get another of the same watch when it dies for cheap, and you may be able to swap in an ETA (or whatever is on the market in 5 years) if it suites you for near the price of a service. The downside is that you may not be able to get the watch anymore at all, there may not be ETAs available and it may be beyond repair at that point. So if you like the watch and it's nice to have, but it won't kill you if it dies and you can't get it fixed, no biggie. Save yourself a few hundred $$$... and hope you get lucky. If it's the watch you love, always wanted and think is totally awesome, spend a few hundred to drop in an ETA or get it serviced. You are still WAY ahead of the game on a gen. I think of dept store watches as the toasterization of the watch world, ie now they are disposable instead of maintainable. Reps are sort of similar vein. I work in the computer world and the same is happening: Used to be you spent thousands and bought the best computer you could afford so you could hold off on upgrades and get the most from your system. Take good care of it, pay to have it maintained, cleaned, and serviced (this is more on the software side than the hardware, but physical cleaning of computers is something that should happen to prolong your computers life too). That wasn't cheap, and it's still not. Like The Zigmeister I charge quit a bit per hour to do what I do, and sometimes that amounts to a can of air and opening your computer up, running some software to organize and keep the filesystem in good shape etc... easy to do if you know how, but expensive. Today, that's all going out the window. You don't buy the most expensive computer you can afford, becuase the cheapest one on the shelf will serve your pursposes just fine 90% of the time. You don't take care of it, because in 3-5 years you will buy a new one for the price of servicing it now. Everything involved in the expensive upkeep of computers was based around getting 5-10 years of life from a computer... well that's just not desireable anymore... Now you buy a computer, back your files up every now and then, and when it breaks buy a new computer with better parts for what it would cost to fix your old computer. You almost WANT your computer to die so you can justify getting a new one. That's kind of what reps and dept store watches are with the caveat that reps are less dependable in terms of whether you will be able to get them at any given time. Funny story, I bought my first car about 6 years ago, it was a cheap civic with almost 200k miles on it. I intentionally do not take good care of it, it was a planned failure: Buy car cheap now, in 2 or 3 years when it dies, buy better car becuase I can afford it then. The thing runs like a champ on one oil change a year and no maintenance... any car mechanic will tell you this is death to an engine... well it's apparently very slow, very cost effective death... I am glad I never got it serviced... I bought it as a 2 year car and it's becomming a 7 year car... I WANT it to fail. So if you buy watches looking at them as 1-2 year investments, don't get them serviced, it makes no sense. As someone who works with computers my view on the damages of failed maintenance are sekwed... I ONLY see computers when lack of maintenance has caused damage... there are thousands of computers in my vicinity that don't get maintenance that probably work a decade. So while I could tell you horror stories and explain how bad it could be, bear in mind where I stand. The Zigmeister isn't in quite the same situation, but almost any expert and hobbiest probably understands and fears the negatives much more than the average person will. So to wrap it up: If it's really special to you, treat it like it is. If it's a nice toy that you can replace someday, treat it like it is. It's a gamble like everythigne else in life, consider the factors, then decided how much you are willing to pay to offset the risk of loosing that item. If I had the SMP Pro Chrono with proper he valve and bracelet that you can't get anymore, I would proably have it serviced (assuming I really like it). If I have a Daytona, which will probably be available as long as reps are, and which probably won't even last long with a service, I am not getting it serviced. My 21j asian sub... not getting serviced becaues an ETA swap will be the same price. If and when that changes (ie ETAs are no longer available) I will reconsider. It may be too late then, but that's the gamble I am willing to take. And I have no qualms with admitting, in fact I come right out and say it openly, I am not a collector, I am an aquirer. For most of my life, my material joy has come not from having, or even from using, but from getting. I am a shopoholic if you will. I fully understand that of $1000 in reps, $200-300 may get some serious wrist time, but most will go in a box, never to be worn again. And most likely the joy of the wrist time and the box time will never be more than the joy of the purchase was... That's just how I am, I am an immediate gratification, shopoholic. So for me servicing holds less value than for most... Edited November 23, 2006 by Devedander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 But I also think you are mis-leading people when it comes to this subject. You make it sound like if you do NOT service an Asian 7750 movement (and within days of receiving it), then it will unequivocally fail. What about all the people that have NOT serviced their watches that still work fine? I have made it clear each and every time this topic comes up, there are many who choose to never service their watches and have no or little problems...it's not my business what they or anyone does. I have never intentionally suggested or implied that any movement (7750 or otherwise) needs service as soon as you get it... what I have done and will continue to do is to let the members here see what I see and find, and my "opinion" on any movements I work on. If you can direct me to the quote where I state"...if you do NOT service and Asian 7750 movement (and within days of receiving it), then it will unequivocally fail." I would be more than happy to edit that post. If by me reporting that each and every Asian 7750 I service is needing oil or over oiled (as in my previous pics) you consider this to be telling members that if they don't service their watches right away they will fail, I have to disagree. I report what I see and find, while you may not like it, it is what it is... what do you suggest I do, lie?? I report what I see both the good and bad, I have done so for over 24 months on this and the previous RWG and will continue to do so. When, and if, someone else decides to step up, tear the movements down, do detailed posts of their findings, I guess I am all you have...be it good or bad, or in your opinion self serving... Spend a day at the bench with me, and you'll be shocked at what I do see and find, that I dont' report on the forum but only in private to the owner... You have made it clear as to your agenda, you think servicing is over priced and a waste of time, and that I am misleading members with my comments and posts. You have your opinion and have made it known, thanks for letting us know. I simply cannot justify doubling the cost of a watch simply because it MAY last longer. The only reason the price is double, is because you got the watch for a few hundred dollars... this would not be the case with a Genuine... If you can't justify it, then simply don't have it done. There is no doubt that a clean and oiled watch WILL (NOT may) last longer, it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out...to suggest otherwise is foolish. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go, my workbench is full and I must get to work... RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkerouac Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 You don't buy the most expensive computer you can afford, becuase the cheapest one on the shelf will serve your pursposes just fine 90% of the time. You don't take care of it, because in 3-5 years you will buy a new one for the price of servicing it now. Everything involved in the expensive upkeep of computers was based around getting 5-10 years of life from a computer... well that's just not desireable anymore... Now you buy a computer, back your files up every now and then, and when it breaks buy a new computer with better parts for what it would cost to fix your old computer. You almost WANT your computer to die so you can justify getting a new one. I am in the computer industry as well, and I certainly enjoy having a faster, more up to date machine. But I also cringe at the thought of all these obsolete electronics piling up in landfills. This is a hidden cost of our wastefulness. In my opinion every electronics manufacturer -- make that every manufacturer and retailer -- should have to account for recycling and disposal costs up front, rather than leaving these costs to the community. I realize that my comments are a bit off topic to the core question "When to service an Asian 7750." So let me "digress" a bit from my own platform to say that in my opinion The Zigmeister has bent over backward to give a balanced perspective on the servicing question. I have one 7750, a GST which I value as a long-term keeper. I have not had it serviced, but know that a service is in its future, very likely with a complete movement replacement. The Zigmeister has not oversold service. He has plenty of business already and doesn't need mine or any other potential new custoemrs to keep his workshop occupied, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBoy Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Look - I"m sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you are over priced or unworthy in any way. I spoke with a FEW other watch servic people and they all say NOT to service the 7750 (Asian) right away and that there's nothing wrong with it. However they prolbably haven't taken it apart the way you have. I think there is a happy middle ground. Service it after a year, but maybe not right away? I duuno. If I (personally) love the watch, I will keep it and keep it running well. In the future I WOULD like to use your services, but maybe not on a full service on a new watch I just bought unless I KNOW it's perfect and the way I way want it. I sincerely hope people take your ADVICE and take better care of there watches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 I bought it as a 2 year car and it's becomming a 7 year car... I WANT it to fail. In this case you should have not bought a Honda, but almost any US or European car (preferably a Fiat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 In this case you should have not bought a Honda, but almost any US or European car (preferably a Fiat) What about Alfa Romeo ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 What about Alfa Romeo ? -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATEspo Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 (edited) I am getting my first "good" replica and I had questions about servicing it. I want it to last longer, and I dont mind spending the money to get it there, but is it really necessary? What is the price to oil and clean the watch BEFORE it breaks? What is the price to repair a watch once it starts loosing/gaining time etc? I just want to see if its worth me to spend $200 before I wear the watch to have it cleaned and oiled as opposed to when it "breaks". I am new to the rep watch world, and i want to keep my watch as long as I can. I will be wearing it 6 out of 7 days a week. Anyone in the USA that is reliable to have a automatic movement serviced (and/or replaced if I can get a better automatic movement). Edited November 26, 2006 by ATEspo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaccum Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Hi and welcome. I don't want to sound rude, but if you read this thread you will find the answer to your question. Cheers, vaccum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATEspo Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Hi I already did read it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krustybrand Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Btw, I once had a Fiat. It tried to kill me 3 (three) times. (Nice post hijacking, isn'it? ) Hehe. I've owned Fiat, Alfa and Maserati. They all spent far more time in the shop than any other car since, but when they ran right, words can't do the experience justice, especially the Maserati. WOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBoy Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 (edited) He quoted 1/4 of my cost, so that would be $50 for a full service on a Chrono...wow... Lets see, a chrono takes on average of 5 hours to service the movement alone, all this for $50...sign me up for this one, I see a money making oportunity for someone here... RG This is not to stir things up - but I'm asking a serious qustion here... I've been back and forth with my watchmaker over this service issue. He actually refuses to service it while new - saying it doesn't need it (and has a lot of experience with these movements - and over 30 years in the business). He WILL service it - but says there is NO POINT from new. I also asked what type of service he does (price and what you get). His answer: "It would cost £35 (That's about $65US) I do not quote a cost for cleaning - only overhauling, which includes: stripping, cleaning, adjusting and lubricating, but does not include any parts or materials used. There is no point in doing this to your watch." So - if I DO want to get the watch serviced (by him) – is there anything missing from his quote that I should ask for? This certainly looks like more than just a simply splash and lube... but for that price I must be missing something. I'm no longer debating whether or not it should be serviced - but rather what to get done and how to get a good deal vs good service. Thanks, JB Edited November 28, 2006 by JBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FasTTaP Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I dont' stock ETA7750's as they are too expensive, best buy is to get one on Ebay...$250 or so... Good point on getting "someone" to work on a rep...that is always a problem... RG Hi The Zigmeister, would replacing the asian 7750 in a IWC Portuguese chrono with a swiss 7750 be possible (since here's all these extra gears to get the seconds at 6) ???... would you consider the this to be a good idea if I want to keep the watch for... a lifetime (er... a few dozen years) ? And, of course, could you do this ? (and if not, who could do that ?) Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRG Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I've been back and forth with my watchmaker over this service issue. He actually refuses to service it while new - saying it doesn't need it (and has a lot of experience with these movements - and over 30 years in the business). He WILL service it - but says there is NO POINT from new. If he is basing this view on ETA movements in recognised brand name watches then I can understand it. He is assuming they are oiled, regulated and tested from the factory. However, as The Zigmeister has illustrated the Asian 7750 copy movement shipping in our reps is anything but oiled, regulated or tested. It's a lottery as to what you get... If he is prepared to strip down, clean, reassemble, oil and regulate for 35 quid then bite his hand off because that's a seriously good price. Who is it BTW, I may have some work for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdorman Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 From what I have seen, this topic applies to all movements... not just the asian 7750. ETA does not ship the raw movements serviced and who knows how filthy it will become before the watch is closed up. Asian movements are no different. Every mechanical movement WILL fail eventually if not properly serviced. This does not mean that even if you do service it, it will not fail... it still can of course. You can make the decision based on what ever criteria you want... economics, desired life span, whatever. But it is your choice. I have some that are serviced, and some that are not. Personally, I would not service a $100 rep because I consider them disposable (relative to the cost of service) and besides, they get better and better all the time from an accuracy standpoint so odds are before long I will want to replace it eventually any ways. Now if I have a higher quality, very accurate rep that I want to see on my wrist until the day I die... I will start it off on a maintenence schedule. I also have a 'grey area' where I take a wait and see approach. To buy the movement is not that relatively expensive so I will wear it until it dies and then make the decision to fix/replace the movement or the entire watch. What may be a favorite today, may not be a year from now. But I can tell you, the ones I have had serviced, comparing apples to apples with the ones that have not been serviced, run and 'feel' noticably better. Put the topic to bed... the absolute correct answer is that ALL movements should be serviced from day one and then on a regular basis... but as we all know, that may not be the best solution from a practical standpoint nor may that suit your goals for the watch. So, make up your own mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Hi Ziggy, would replacing the asian 7750 in a IWC Portuguese chrono with a swiss 7750 be possible (since here's all these extra gears to get the seconds at 6) ???... would you consider the this to be a good idea if I want to keep the watch for... a lifetime (er... a few dozen years) ? And, of course, could you do this ? (and if not, who could do that ?) Cheers It is possible, but requires disassembly and swapping of parts between both movements, and the costs associated with that work. Then add $250+ for a ETA 7750. Asking the ETA 7750 to power the extra 5 gears for the running seconds is risky as it's a big load on the movement... If I wanted to keep the watch for a lifetime, I MAY consider replacing the Asian with a Swiss, IF money was no object... If I wanted the watch to last a lifetime, I would remove the running seconds gears, get the movement serviced at some point (between the time you get the watch - till it quits or in a couple of years) and use the Asian 7750 that came with the watch... I see NO reason that the Asian 7750 will not last as long as the ETA all things being equal, i.e. you maintain the movement over the years with regular service. I am finding that most of the New Asian 7750's require new cannon pins, good - not bad - news, as the ETA ones fit perfect...so spares seems to be a non-issue...and the ETA part is 100% better than the Asian one...but this weakness is the only one, and was a problem on the older 7750 as well... As for can I do this? have a look in my subforum, it should answer that question easily... RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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