PureTime Posted April 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 No worries guys, I have talked to the maker and everything is reported to him (I will talk to him again tomorrow about the new flaws found), unless there is something cannot be changed anymore, I will not allow the maker to release it before all fixable flaws are fixed. Pay attention to my dealer section these 2 days, I got new toys for you :twisted: I will let you guys know what exactly will be improved in 2 days (it takes time to talk to the maker and sometimes I have to argue with him :-P) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 more new toys? thanks for the update angus; be tough on the maker (get the flaws fixed!) -- i think you'll find lots of eager customers on this one assuming the price isn't outrageous (while you're arguing about getting the flaws corrected, would be good to argue about a fair price too ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureTime Posted April 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 I also worry about the price, hope it wont be too high... and the price is not negotiable, he is the boss (on the first day the HBB released, I took 50 pcs and got no discount). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Pity if this doesn't come out with a fair price...this might actually be the first time I protest with my wallet. I think the driven up prices on these reps are getting outrageous. Especially for Asian 7750 movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerailord Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 it will be out with swiss 7750 or only with asian 7750?????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvn Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Pity if this doesn't come out with a fair price...this might actually be the first time I protest with my wallet. I think the driven up prices on these reps are getting outrageous. Especially for Asian 7750 movements. I am totally agreed with you. Let's hope that the price is going to be affordable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetterdawg Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 sorry to go negative but... I see the buck is officially passed on to the manufacturer. Of course the price is high because it was set by the manufacturer... that happens with other products where they also jack you on the price. Show me the reasons why this watch needs to be more expensive than almost any other 7750 based watch. Lume? Nope, it's not SuperLume AR? We know that ads at most $40 per watch. In bulk it's probably under $20 Materials? Wood is cheap, metal is cheap. Complications? Nothing above that which a 7750 can do. Had to buy the original? You can resell that watch and get back a lot of your investment if you were smart in purchasing it. Attention to detail and Time? Probably not a lot more than any other watch, and the community has certainly helped. Even the darn near perfect Ferrari rep was sub $300 Finally - the market for this watch is the people on these boards. This is not a watch you will see "on the street". It's a nice watch, but I'm not going a dollar over $300. again, sorry for the negativity. blah. bad day, bad week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 I agree totally with Zetterdawg bad day or week nonetheless. We the board members assited and gave our time and input into "making" this watch..It is really being constructed for one purpose to sell to "us". Outside of this community no one will care about it because it's no Rolex Sub. So if the makers decide to stick us with a unreasonable high price along with a line of BS..then they did nothing more than F#%k us in the end....so as I said earlier..a initial high gouging price means.....no watchy for me...or simply choke on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 a discussion about the correlation between price and number of pieces sold could be helpful.... i realize this is simplifying things a little bit, but here is an example: scenario 1 price = $450 cost = $250 number of pieces sold = 10 profit = $2,000 scenario 2 price = $350 cost = $250 number of pieces sold = 30 profit = $3,000 this doesn't even take into account the leveraging of fixed costs as you sell more pieces -- in scenario 2, your cost per watch should be decreasing given all costs are not variable. i think the assumption that you could sell 3x of this watch if the price is $100 cheaper is also pretty valid.... feel free to print and show to maker deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasng Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 What the people who are selling these watches fail to realize is that charging a higher price does not necessarily equate higher profits. Selling for $450 and $350 may still mean bigger profits for the latter, despite the $100 price difference. It's a simple price equilibrium along with supply and demand issue here. The theory states that demand has to increase as the price comes down. Let's say they can only sell 20 pieces at $450, with a cost of $250 each, averaged out over each piece (assuming that the marginal cost for each extra watch decreases with quantity i.e. #1 is $275, then #2 is $270, etc.). Therefore, their total profit is $4000. However, if they lower the price to $350, their average cost could be lowered to say, $240 a piece, and they sell 70 pieces, depending on the demand. That would equate to a profit of $7700. The dealers make more money and more people are happy. This is the best situation that anyone can hope for. Unfortunately, they haven't picked up on this concept yet as evidenced by the Big Bang. My analysis is only based on assumptions, as we have no idea how much business each dealers does nor can we predict how many sales each dealer makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureTime Posted April 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 There will be both Asian and Swiss 7750 versions. The forum market takes only 10%-20% at max to his total production, so he is not offering any discount to us. I also worry about the price, I also want be as cheap as possible and I can sell more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 I'd be curious as to who makes up the remaining 90%-80% of the market on this watch??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetterdawg Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 (edited) a discussion about the correlation between price and number of pieces sold could be helpful.... i realize this is simplifying things a little bit, but here is an example: scenario 1 price = $450 cost = $250 number of pieces sold = 10 profit = $2,000 scenario 2 price = $350 cost = $250 number of pieces sold = 30 profit = $3,000 this doesn't even take into account the leveraging of fixed costs as you sell more pieces -- in scenario 2, your cost per watch should be decreasing given all costs are not variable. i think the assumption that you could sell 3x of this watch if the price is $100 cheaper is also pretty valid.... feel free to print and show to maker deltatahoe ha - I've bought A7750 based PAM reps for $139.00 and I can guarantee the dealer and manufacturer still made money. I'm guessing the cost to make this rep is between $50-$75. Most of that price is spread across however many they choose to produce. only 10-20% of the product sells here? so somewhere there are 80-90% of the folks that are into relatively obscure very high end reps but they don't participate on one of the 3 biggest internet forums for that very topic? Or maybe angus means RWG is 10-20% and the other 2 or 3 boards are 10-20 % as well. I just can't imagine the guy on the street walking up to a stall and buying a $500 rep of an IWC.... Rolex yes, Omega yes, Panerai maybe, but IWC... I'd be curious as to who makes up the remaining 90%-80% of the market on this watch??? yah - people with $500 to spend on a high end rep of a small market watch that don't really use the internet otherwise they'd be here already. scenario 3 price = $450 cost = $100 number of pieces sold = 100 profit = $35,000 Edited April 9, 2007 by zetterdawg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 The other 80% market is the WHOLESALE market dedicated to EU countries, Malaysia, Thailand, Turkey... These are some of the BIGGEST Wholesale markets who move alot of replicas. =) I have a feeling that this IWC Cousteau will not be CHEAP but the price will definitely be reasonable. To be real serious, there was alot of work done. Angus can vouch for that. This piece is a GEM. I almost wanted to bring the Prototype home. LOL.. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 More pre-sale bull...to pump up the latest watch...if not sold on RWG, RWI or TRC not sold at all period. Walk the streets for a month in China and you'll never see this rep. As I said before I'm done if the price isn't right on this one. I'm not going to be gouged anymore or fooled into believing this is some limited holy grail priveledge to be able to sell this. All a matter of patience and will power...the price if high will come down...if the perceived sales aren't there. As I said before they can choke on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetterdawg Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 The other 80% market is the WHOLESALE market dedicated to EU countries, Malaysia, Thailand, Turkey... These are some of the BIGGEST Wholesale markets who move alot of replicas. =) so the other 80% are from countries that are essentially 3rd world compared to the US? This isn't a rah rah USA post, but I don't imagine there are more people in Thailand willing to spend $450 on this watch than there are in say... um... California - the 5th biggest economy in the world. I could be convinced for the rep market as a whole there is a good deal of business done outside the US, but for the high end stuff I'm not so sure. Is the price a lot cheaper for the people in these other countries? Do the wholesalers get it for cheaper? btw, I'm sure it's a nice watch, no one is discounting that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Steve About the market forces, maybe I can share with you.. About 80% of the market is wholesale on the Maker side. I can tell you these wholesalers move VOLUME. I have been in contact with Malaysia Wholesalers whom I worked with till today. Their monthly volume is in the range of USD200,000. And that is ONLY 1 Wholesaler in malaysia.. There are about 4 big ones in KL Malaysia. There is no way that the Maker will choke on stocks. The Wholesale market and demand is VERY Strong. Turkey is also one of the BIGGEST wholesale players in the world. They supply alot to the EU side. The retails prices give by the wholesalers to the customers are more Expensive if you were to buy from the dealers in here. You can count on that. Those Wholesalers (like those Malaysia wholesalers I mention).. They will sell at high prices... Imagine they have to take RISKS.. alot of risks.. They ship from China to Malaysia.. they set up stores in malaysia... and they hire many workers to run the stores.. their investment is HIGH so naturally their prices is high... it makes economic sense to sell higher. Even 1 month later, if you roam the markets in China, you will not see this watch... one simple reason... 100% of the volume can still be moved from Internet sales from dealers like us, Wholesalers in foreign countries and other wholesalers based in China. =) The market forces are very very dynamic in this replica industry.. I am sharing only a portion of it to let you see the insight! Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 so the other 80% are from countries that are essentially 3rd world compared to the US? This isn't a rah rah USA post, but I don't imagine there are more people in Thailand willing to spend $450 on this watch than there are in say... um... California - the 5th biggest economy in the world. I could be convinced for the rep market as a whole there is a good deal of business done outside the US, but for the high end stuff I'm not so sure. Is the price a lot cheaper for the people in these other countries? Do the wholesalers get it for cheaper? btw, I'm sure it's a nice watch, no one is discounting that. Hi.. They arent really all third world countries. USA is a big market.. thats one thing I dont deny but because of the strict laws in USA (Irony is that USA is also the easiest place to ship in replica items), there arent many wholesalers willing to ship in items in bulk into USA. I know a few wholesalers in USA but they dont buy in by the containers... only by boxes... Wholesalers get the same prices if I am not wrong. I have spoken to many wholesalers before and they sometimes do have a little better pricing... but think about it... they still need to incur shipping costs.. and mind you.. they are HIGH. These wholesalers buy in BIG volumes so they get good prices.. its ECONOMICS... however risk is inevitable.. So after you add the transport costs and risk costs, these wholesalers will never be able to sell at fantastic prices like the dealers in here. =) ANDREW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Steve About the market forces, maybe I can share with you.. About 80% of the market is wholesale on the Maker side. I can tell you these wholesalers move VOLUME. I have been in contact with Malaysia Wholesalers whom I worked with till today. Their monthly volume is in the range of USD200,000. And that is ONLY 1 Wholesaler in malaysia.. There are about 4 big ones in KL Malaysia. There is no way that the Maker will choke on stocks. The Wholesale market and demand is VERY Strong. Turkey is also one of the BIGGEST wholesale players in the world. They supply alot to the EU side. The retails prices give by the wholesalers to the customers are more Expensive if you were to buy from the dealers in here. You can count on that. Those Wholesalers (like those Malaysia wholesalers I mention).. They will sell at high prices... Imagine they have to take RISKS.. alot of risks.. They ship from China to Malaysia.. they set up stores in malaysia... and they hire many workers to run the stores.. their investment is HIGH so naturally their prices is high... it makes economic sense to sell higher. Even 1 month later, if you roam the markets in China, you will not see this watch... one simple reason... 100% of the volume can still be moved from Internet sales from dealers like us, Wholesalers in foreign countries and other wholesalers based in China. =) The market forces are very very dynamic in this replica industry.. I am sharing only a portion of it to let you see the insight! Andrew Andrew...first off I always appreciate and thank you for your responses here...more dealers should step up as you do. Secondly the IWC Cousteau is a beautiful rep. I'm sure I do not fully understand all of the inside dealings that go on with rep makers, dealers and the industry that surrounds it. I do know and feel that this forum as well as others do play a large part in the sales of these watches...didn't this very forum have some influence over the end product? Angus didn't consult all of Malaysia to check out what flaws existed in the prototype. Additionally I just don't see how any of the materials have changed in this IWC to make the cost go above $300 (assuming it will be). Asian 7750 in the BCE was under $300..virtually all the same specs....just maybe not the demand? or hype? Other than this being a "hot" watch that some here have waited a long time for.. I just don't see how it will move at a higher than normal price level. Now if it were a "perfect sub" and I mean PERFECT sub....then a higher price i can see people tripping over themselves to have one. Just my humble economic opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Andrew...first off I always appreciate and thank you for your responses here...more dealers should step up as you do. Secondly the IWC Cousteau is a beautiful rep. I'm sure I do not fully understand all of the inside dealings that go on with rep makers, dealers and the industry that surrounds it. I do know and feel that this forum as well as others do play a large part in the sales of these watches...didn't this very forum have some influence over the end product? Angus didn't consult all of Malaysia to check out what flaws existed in the prototype. Additionally I just don't see how any of the materials have changed in this IWC to make the cost go above $300 (assuming it will be). Asian 7750 in the BCE was under $300..virtually all the same specs....just maybe not the demand? or hype? Other than this being a "hot" watch that some here have waited a long time for.. I just don't see how it will move at a higher than normal price level. Now if it were a "perfect sub" and I mean PERFECT sub....then a higher price i can see people tripping over themselves to have one. Just my humble economic opinion. To be real honest, Angus played a part in the watch construction. He did chip in valuable inputs left by you guys so the Maker improved the watch. Materials wise, this IWC Cousteau needed more tham you think.. The wooden hull is already a great piece of ART. FYI, there is no indicative price as of yet as Maker did not disclose anything other than showcasing the prototype done in 1:1 fashion. =) So dont worry... everyone can still feed the kids and still buy a replica. =) Its 3:45am... I am a little tipsy after a CHIVAS.... LOL... Take care guys... I see you later today! Ciao! Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam_tgg Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 I can say that Turkey, is one of the ports of goods to EU: goods or bads, from Heroin to textils. They distribute to markets in south EU (Italy and Spain specially). It is not that USA is not first world: is that the first world buy these goods (bags, gold, watchs) in the turistic travels, in Turkey, India, etc. You can not go to Texas, Stuttgart or Oslo, and have the open markets of reps like in Bangcok. Even in Spain you use to see a lot of watches in the streets, but within the EU rules, you can see it less. Now you see some balck people or chinese with CDs, DVDs, and some small things. Not stores. I am also afraid about the price. A lot. But one thing: a lot of people say that our reps can go with most of gens. They improve. Also the price. I like to have it for 250 dolars, but I think we are gona see it between the 350 and 400. Lets see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureTime Posted April 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Andrew's correct and it was not us to set the price high but the maker, I think some of you here may still remember I asked for price difference when the HBB is released. I thought the cost of the HBB is a bit more expensive than other Asian 7750 watches. I marked the pre-order price US$318 but finally the price was almost 50% more than I expected and that was why I asked for US$100 more from those who have paid in the pre-order. If we are taking like 50% of the total production in ONE purchase, we may press the price down a bit but we can only take up to about 20% of the total production in about half a year and we have really nothing to do with the price, I have been talking to the watch maker about the price thing and hope he can reduce his profit and we can buy the reps in lower price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetterdawg Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Andrew's correct and it was not us to set the price high but the maker, I think some of you here may still remember I asked for price difference when the HBB is released. I thought the cost of the HBB is a bit more expensive than other Asian 7750 watches. I marked the pre-order price US$318 but finally the price was almost 50% more than I expected and that was why I asked for US$100 more from those who have paid in the pre-order. If we are taking like 50% of the total production in ONE purchase, we may press the price down a bit but we can only take up to about 20% of the total production in about half a year and we have really nothing to do with the price, I have been talking to the watch maker about the price thing and hope he can reduce his profit and we can buy the reps in lower price. If you guys are buying 20% and not getting a price break than you are getting more screwed than us. Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie7s Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Why dont we look at a recent scenario in our rep marketplace...TTK's Noobmariner. Here is a watch that was created to meet a particular need in the marketplace-a great looking, cost effective way for the average guy to get a quality Submariner rep. The reason I bring it up is simple...the Noob could have easily sold dozens at $180-200.USD but they chose to go a different route and sell them for $120 or so and sold TENS of Dozens that is just a 60-80 dollar difference. I may be way off in trying to get my point across, and pardon my ignorance if so, but I think the manufacturers should really take a good look at the opportunity to make a much larger profit based on volume. I have had contact with several members here and we are all excited to see the Cousteau available. This is a very desireable rep and we all know will sell huge numbers if priced accordingly. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureTime Posted April 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 If you guys are buying 20% and not getting a price break than you are getting more screwed than us. Z 20% in a couple of months, not in one purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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