Dilemma with replacing chronograph movement?

[Timelord]

Hello fellow members,

I would hope someone here may be able to tell me the difference between the manual wind chronograph seagull ST1901 and seagull ST1903 as they both have 3 registers.  I am trying to replace a module in my manual wind Silix speedmaster which has a display back and I cannot identify which of the two movements it is.  In an earlier post last year the only clue I had was that it is a ST19,

 

Sadly my speedmaster fell off my arm somehow and since it dropped it had the tendency to stop every couple of hours after the fall.  Worse still it now no longer runs on a full wind.   I am still no skilled enough to  work on chronographs. My watchmaker wont even look at it as he clams these Chinese mvts  are a pain in the a@#$ to work and repair, and I am not skillful enough to completely service a chronograph at this stage.

 

 I am stuck as to 

(1) identifying the correct movement 

and 

(2) upon identifying the correct movement, what options exist in replacing it with a good quality one by not ending up with a dud as most of these movements seem to be in the high risk category,  My research states that it is a one to one copy of the Venus 175, but I am not so sure as this movement only seems to have 2 registers.  It gets more and more confusing
Thanks for your input 

[horologist]

No ...  No...,,   No,

 

There is no need to replace the movement just yet unless you have eliminated the source of why it stops.   Remove the watch mechanism from the case and try to get it going on a mvt holder by giving the balance wheel a bit of a gentle nudge.  If it continues  to run let it run on a full wind and check to see if it is still running every couple of hours then you know it is not the movement!!  Believe me it is a casing issue where one of the clamps may have misaligned or even bent.  These chronographs regardless of if it is a genuine Patek or a cheapie from a souvenir shop are a pain in the a$z/ if the casing of the movement is not correct.  Typical of chronographs!!

 

I was gifted by my partner a Paul Newman Alpha chronograph with an ST1903 and had exactly the same issue as you have described and at first thought what a piece of crap!!!  I am not a fan of chronographs a in general due to the fact that they have more moving parts and lots more issues can occur and all it  does is have a stop watch as an extra, which costs body and soul to service and attend to when something goes wrong!  All in all since you have it I think it is still a good and robust mvt  for the money you pay considering it is almost tick for tack like the old venus chronograph!  I have only read one negative comment on this mvt at

https://forums.watchuseek.com/f71/riccardo-thread-please-god-make-last-i-have-talk-about-1083309.html

good luck!!

[ceejay]

The Seagull ST (TY) 1901 is 2 registers.

The Seagull ST (TY) 1902 & 1903 are both 3 registers. They differ in that the 1902 has 30 minute counter @ 3, 12 hour counter @ 6 & seconds @ 9. The 1903 has a 24 hour counter @ 6. The other 2 subdials are the same as the 1902.

 

The 1901 is not a one-for-one copy of the Venus 175.

Seagull purchased the tooling of the Venus 175 and it is very similar but not one-for-one. It is close though! And a very good movement.

 

Here's a great video of a service on one (in 6 parts) I followed this video the first time I serviced a Seagull 1901, it served me well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI3T-IR3AgM

 

So, to answer your questions. If it's 2 registers then it's a ST(TY)1901. I insert 'TY' because that is its official calibre designation TY1902. It is a copy of the Venus 175.

 

Seagull are the only company making this movement. I have found them to be well made, reliable and very accurate.

As was said above, it's more than likely something has moved and is causing some friction somewhere. Case, dial, hands?

 

If all else fails, Cousins UK sell the movement.

 

Good luck.

 

[Timelord]

9 hours ago, ceejay said:

 

So, to answer your questions. If it's 2 registers then it's a ST(TY)1901. I insert 'TY' because that is its official calibre designation TY1902. It is a copy of the Venus 175.

 

Good luck.

 

 

My endless thanks!   It reminds me of a similar post you helped me out with some 18 months ago where you went out of your way  to take photos , post them and tutor  the issue for me!    Very useful information with the video link also!  Thanks again!!

17 hours ago, horologist said:

No ...  No...,,   No,

 

There is no need to replace the movement just yet unless you have eliminated the source of why it stops.   Remove the watch mechanism from the case and try to get it going on a mvt holder by giving the balance wheel a bit of a gentle nudge.  If it continues  to run let it run on a full wind and check to see if it is still running every couple of hours then you know it is not the movement!!  Believe me it is a casing issue where one of the clamps may have misaligned or even bent.  These chronographs regardless of if it is a genuine Patek or a cheapie from a souvenir shop are a pain in the a$z/ if the casing of the movement is not correct.  Typical of chronographs!!

 

 

 

You are spot on!!!  Took your advice and before my very eyes, it started ticking again!  I tried to case it and just as I was about to close it, it stopped again.  Had to make several attempts at closing it  while still ticking!  I kept playing around with it until it kept going!    I then changed one of the case clamps for a tighter fit  and surprise surprise, it has not stopped!  Too good to be true?  Time will tell!  Excuse the pun!

 

The only problem is that whenever I push the register to start the centre hand, it stops!   Don't know what is happening there, but I got it ticking again and will refrain from using the stop watch as  I am not skilled enough to play around with the chronograph area.  I just made it to service a basic 15 jewel fhf. Movement being my Everest achievement for an amateur watch dismantled!

 

my endless thanks 

 

 

[horologist]

On 1 February 2020 at 3:53 AM, ceejay said:

The Seagull ST (TY) 1901 is 2 registers.

The Seagull ST (TY) 1902 & 1903 are both 3 registers. They differ in that the 1902 has 30 minute counter @ 3, 12 hour counter @ 6 & seconds @ 9. The 1903 has a 24 hour counter @ 6. The other 2 subdials are the same as the 1902.

 

Hi Ceejay,

 

great information!,

 

basically the 1902 and the 1903 differ only  with the hour conter at 6 where the 1902 reads upto 12 and the other mvt reads upto 24!

 

apart from that difference do you know if the two movements are interchangeable in terms of fitting under the same dials and cases using either movement??  

 

I can't seem to find any  further information on them!  Thanks

 

 

 

[Timelord]

On 3 February 2020 at 11:48 PM, horologist said:

apart from that difference do you know if the two movements are interchangeable in terms of fitting under the same dials and cases using either movement??  

 

I can't seem to find any  further information on them!  Thanks

 

Great question!!  I believe they would be , using the information on 

 

https://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/technical-schemes-seagull-chronographs-25040.html

 

the dials seem interchangeble

[ceejay]

On 2/3/2020 at 1:18 PM, horologist said:

 

Hi Ceejay,

 

great information!,

 

basically the 1902 and the 1903 differ only  with the hour conter at 6 where the 1902 reads upto 12 and the other mvt reads upto 24!

 

apart from that difference do you know if the two movements are interchangeable in terms of fitting under the same dials and cases using either movement??  

 

I can't seem to find any  further information on them!  Thanks

 

 

 

 

No idea? I've never had the pleasure of a Venus 175 on my bench. If one ever turns up it will be a mission of mine to test out compatibility what with the scarcity of gen Venus parts!