Upping the 116520 Franken

[freddy333]

I just finished overhauling my 2000-ish vintage Daytona after 20 years of trouble-free service. It probably could have gone on for another 20 years, but I accidentally dropped it & it stopped running, which necessitated my needing to attend to its mechanical issue. While I had everything apart, I decided to try to take it to the next level by seeing about installing another gen part. It requires significant craftsmanship to the case & I am not sure it will be successful, so I do not want to say too much until I know 1 way or the other whether the upgrade will be worthy of an appearance. But, if all goes well, I may have something of interest to Daytona fans in the coming days. More later --

 

[automatico]

"I just finished overhauling my 2000-ish vintage Daytona after 20 years of trouble-free service." 

 

F333

Please let us know what movement, case etc. you started out with, or maybe post a link to an earlier post about it. 

I can't remember it, as usual...assuming I am on the right forum.  Ha!

 

[freddy333]

Click me

While on the subject, do you (or anyone else) know where I can find more of these curved chrono hands (0.20mm hand hole, 3.5mm length in steel/silver) for the ETA 7750-powered 116520 Daytona?

 

By 'curved', I mean if you look at the hand from the side, the top surface is curved rather than flat. Hopefully, these pics illustrate what I am describing --

While reassembling my Daytona, I found that some of the chrono hands are loose on their tubes, which makes it impossible to properly set & maintain their default positions (pointing north) on the dial. Chronograph hands, even gens (especially, after repeated r&rs), are notorious for having this problem (loose hands on their tubes) & I broke 1 of them while attempting to tighten the joint with my staking tool. Because of the curved top surface, I have not found a way to stake the joint tight without flattening (or damaging) the hand. So I need to purchase a few more of these curved chrono hands (the gens, as these are, have become unobtanium). In fact, I would like to get several as that will increase the odds of receiving at least 3 in the bunch that are sufficiently tight so they do not shift after installation.

Note -- Anyone with a chrono having a problem with the center (chronograph) running seconds hand (or any of the small chrono hands) failing to reset back to 12, this is most likely the problem. You need to either replace the hands or find a way to permanently fix the hand wand (the upper horizontal part) in position with the hand tube (the vertical tube that gets pressed onto the movement's pinion).

[automatico]

Thanks for the link!

 

"Chronograph hands, even gens (especially, after repeated r&rs), are notorious for having this problem (loose hands on their tubes) & I broke 1 of them while attempting to tighten the joint with my staking tool."

 

I tighten hand tubes using 'WW' lathe collets.

1...Find the appropriate collet (one that the hand tube slips into with little friction).

2...Put the collet in the lathe and very lightly tighten the drawbar to squeeze the tube down.

3...Remove the hand from the collet and try it on the watch, repeat if needed.

A small squeeze goes a long way so go lightly.  

 

If you do not have a WW lathe and collets, ask around to find a watch repair or watch hobby guy who has one.  Since you are not running the lathe, most of them should let you squeeze hand tubes down in their lathe.

My WW lathe is an old C&E Marshall Watch-Craft model that I bought for $75 years ago and the collets were donations from watch friends.  The lathe is so old the power cord is a cloth covered two strand twisted wire.

Sometimes you can run into an old WW lathe at a yard sale or flea market for very little $$.  It's the collets they rob you on.

[freddy333]

Great info!

Unfortunately, I do not have a lathe, but I was able to repair the broken chrono hand. I ended up pressing the arm wand onto the tube with a flat stake. Then, I mounted the temporarily mated wand/tube in a piece of rodico & applied a tiny bit of solder flux followed by a literal dot of silver solder. Then, I held the soldering tip to the edge of the round area of the wand until the solder melted all around the broken joint. It was a very fiddly operation, but it worked.....Mostly. Unfortunately, some of the solder migrated into the tube, blocking the pinion from sliding far enough into it to hold the hand. So, I have a new technique for repairing chrono hands & learned to be more careful.

On a related subject -- have you had any experience working the new Asian 4130 clone movements? If so, what is your impression of them?
I see that the new 4130-powered Daytona reps are now able to accept the correct, flat caseback (1 of the remaining tells on the 7750-powered Daytonas like mine is its thick caseback, required to fit the taller 7750 movement). They also appear to have correct CGs, so that is 1 less issue that needs to be addressed.

So if you or anyone else has any direct experience with the Asian 4130, please post below.

[automatico]

"On a related subject -- have you had any experience working the new Asian 4130 clone movements? If so, what is your impression of them?"

 

I have never seen one except in pictures but from what I have read they are pretty good movements.  It seems the overall execution is very good but they took a few shortcuts and quality control is not up to par as usual.  The flat hairspring escapement shortcut is Ok except it is a giveaway to being a replica at a glance along with a few other things, but this would not bother me at all.  If the movement factories took a bit more care with cleanliness/assembly and offered repair parts through a reliable source, they would be an all-around success imho.  I doubt RWC would look at it this way though.  Ha!

 

Otoh...if someone wants a 'Daytona!' I do not blame them for buying a replica with all the RWC and AD craziness...No Parts! to 'outsiders' etc, and their 'Esteemed Dealers' turning into outright robber barons often demanding suckers customers to buy 1 or 2 other high $$ items to 'qualify' for a hard to get model.

Because of all this, it is easy to see why the rolex replica business is booming.  

 

As to the hand fix, it is fine as long as it works and looks good from the top side.  I've pulled the tubes out of quite a few second hands when removing H, M, and SS hands all at once with a hand puller so I know how it goes. 

The opposite to shrinking hand tubes...I make hand hole sizing 'broaches' out of needles from a common assortment by reducing the diameter first on a Dremel with a diamond wheel, then file three flats on them by running them over a diamond knife sharpening hone until the size is what is needed.  It's mostly trial and error but it is low $$ and easy to do.

I make handles for them out of 1/4 inch wooden dowel stock from Ho' Depot etc.

 

[freddy333]

On 11/13/2022 at 11:28 AM, automatico said:

Otoh...if someone wants a 'Daytona!' I do not blame them for buying a replica with all the RWC and AD craziness...No Parts! to 'outsiders' etc, and their 'Esteemed Dealers' turning into outright robber barons often demanding suckers customers to buy 1 or 2 other high $$ items to 'qualify' for a hard to get model.

Because of all this, it is easy to see why the rolex replica business is booming.  

I will go a step further -- If the Chinese 'rep' movement factories were smart, they would do just that -- produce high quality movement clones properly assembled. Then, they would setup their rep dealers as 'ADs' with spare parts stocks. So, as Rolex continues to tighten their grip on parts & watches, making it more & more difficult for buyers to buy while pumping up prices beyond the reach of even the mere wealthy, I could see how rep makers could end up pulling the rug right out from under them. Why wait many months or years, often being required to prove your worth by being forced to buy other watches & then have to pay thousands for a watch of similar quality from the Chinese, who require 0 wait -- & they even supply parts direct to the customer at reasonable prices? Of course, Rolex has always been able to outsmart the competition. But I think that even their most hard-core fans are starting to feel a widening rift between the company & their traditional customer base.

[automatico]

"So, as Rolex continues to tighten their grip on parts & watches, making it more & more difficult for buyers to buy while pumping up prices beyond the reach of even the mere wealthy, I could see how rep makers could end up pulling the rug right out from under them."

 

Regarding 'No Parts For You!'

Since RWC cut parts off to parts supply houses and shut down almost all non AD parts accounts, I have seen a whole lot of high quality aftmkt movement parts become available.  The majority of rlx watches I work on have 1530 base movements and just about all train wheels, springs, jewels, reversers, setting parts etc. are available for them now.  You can't get aftmkt plates, bridges, or escapement parts (yet) but they are rarely needed.  I was really surprised when reversers became available, but they are pricey and I don't need them anyway because I still have a few from back when I could get parts.

 

On top of that, I rarely wear a rolex watch, real or imagined.  I wore the 'shortcut 1655' more than I have worn a rolex watch since the 1970s and 1980s...back when tutones were in style.  

I took the 'SC 1655' apart a few days after Halloween so it's Frankenstein watch history now.

 

Lately, I've been going First Class wearing a Disney Snap! watch with a clear plastic case after drilling lug holes in the case and putting a leather strap on it. 

It was for a friend's Kid but the Kid turned it down.

Kids are Snobby nowadays.  

 

The Snap! is about 13 posts down.

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