mrnixon Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 I put my message here at the since the movement seems to be common in many watches. I bought a Pam with a Swiss Unitas 6497-1 a month ago. It keeps perfect time, ie 0 seconds deviation, for around 12 h and after that it stops. I guess that is not normal? Does it indicate some serious problem or does it only need some cleaning and oil? I thought since it is a swiss movement from ETA it should be clean and oiled from the factory, just like when it is put in watches from regular brands (like Oris, etc using standard 6497 movements), and therefore should be going for at least a year until any action would be required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 I put my message here at the since the movement seems to be common in many watches. I bought a Pam with a Swiss Unitas 6497-1 a month ago. It keeps perfect time, ie 0 seconds deviation, for around 12 h and after that it stops. I guess that is not normal? Does it indicate some serious problem or does it only need some cleaning and oil? I thought since it is a swiss movement from ETA it should be clean and oiled from the factory, just like when it is put in watches from regular brands (like Oris, etc using standard 6497 movements), and therefore should be going for at least a year until any action would be required. Power reserve fully wound should be 56 hours. Something is wrong. Are you winding it fully until you encounter resistance that makes you stop? Unless you are King Kong, you can wind these movements until you encounter the "I can't wind this anymore" resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 56 hours is optimum. You should be getting at least 40-45 hours on it anyhow. In spite of the fact the movement is ETA that does not mean that it is 100% ETA and it also doesn't mean it was assembled with care. So do as CC says and make sure it is fully wound. If that doesn't help it may need a service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrnixon Posted January 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 Power reserve fully wound should be 56 hours. Something is wrong. Are you winding it fully until you encounter resistance that makes you stop? Unless you are King Kong, you can wind these movements until you encounter the "I can't wind this anymore" resistance. Thanks for your reply. No, it seems like it that watch is fully winded so it probably "the last 40 hours" missing. The strange thing is that until it stops the watch really keeps perfect time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 Thanks for your reply. No, it seems like it that watch is fully winded so it probably "the last 40 hours" missing. The strange thing is that until it stops the watch really keeps perfect time. Well, I'm not a watch repair person (but I play one on TV!). I'd let Ziggy handle this one. It sounds like a mainspring/power problem rather than a transference problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 I put my message here at the since the movement seems to be common in many watches. I bought a Pam with a Swiss Unitas 6497-1 a month ago. It keeps perfect time, ie 0 seconds deviation, for around 12 h and after that it stops. I guess that is not normal? Does it indicate some serious problem or does it only need some cleaning and oil? I thought since it is a swiss movement from ETA it should be clean and oiled from the factory, just like when it is put in watches from regular brands (like Oris, etc using standard 6497 movements), and therefore should be going for at least a year until any action would be required. Do you wind the watch until you can't wind it anymore and it's reached the stop. This takes 60+ turns on the crown. Your description sounds like your only partially winding the watch, not fully winding it. You have to wind until it's impossible to wind anymore, then see how long it runs...there is no risk of breaking the mainspring by fully winding the watch. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrnixon Posted January 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Thanks for you comments above. I notice the problem yesterday for the second time (the first was just what I bought it I was not 100% sure when I winded the watch). I will measure a the time passed between when I fully wind it and when it stops and see if it allways stops after a certain numbe of hours. More generally I begin to get som doubts if this replica hobby is my bag. I have been collecting gen vintage Rolexes for a long time and thought that as a beater I could get a pam rep to modify a little to make it look a bit more vintage. So I bought this watch for 350 usd with a swiss simple movement made by Eta hoping that it should work for at least a couple of years before requiring service or oil, like the movement seems to operate in regular cheaper brands (Zeno, Glycine etc) using the same movement. But after reading here on the forum I realize that for some reason the same movement does not work in the same way when put in a rep. And also more or less everything else seems to break within a short period of time (one guy even exampel said that the arms of a IWC Jones allways breaks when you service it). So not even the simplest watches with the simplest and best quality movement seems to last for a very long time. And after all, 250 usd is not so little money. It is of course nothing compared with a gen, but it is still a considerable amount of money and at least I expect to get something decent in return. Hope I dont sound rude or negative, and please tell me I am wrong. But this has been my experience from my only purchase and from reading as much as possible here the forum over the last two months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRG Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 It's not so rosey in gen land either, you could have bought an Invicta and have the same issues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madonna Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 @mrnixon. About the hands on the IWC Fa Jones. It is not the hands themselves that break, it is the "blue paint" that they have used on them that easily get scratches. And I think most 6497 (Swiss or asian) is running good? At least all mine (8-9 of them) have only needed timing adjustments to make me happy. (maybe half of them was running 3-4 min/day fast or slow when I got them, but after 2-3 rought adjustements they get down to 10-20sec/day. No problem getting them even better, but takes time to adjust closer without measuring instruments. And as they say, gen's also have problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrnixon Posted January 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 @mrnixon. About the hands on the IWC Fa Jones. It is not the hands themselves that break, it is the "blue paint" that they have used on them that easily get scratches. And I think most 6497 (Swiss or asian) is running good? At least all mine (8-9 of them) have only needed timing adjustments to make me happy. (maybe half of them was running 3-4 min/day fast or slow when I got them, but after 2-3 rought adjustements they get down to 10-20sec/day. No problem getting them even better, but takes time to adjust closer without measuring instruments. And as they say, gen's also have problems Thanks for chearing me up! Maybe you are right, it is not as bad as it looks. When you read the problem discussions (I have almost only followed the Panerai related) it contains everything from movement problems (espcially the chronographs of course), canon pins which are too short, crystals cracking (pam 127), hands which cannot be service, bezel problems, and now lately misunderstandings of swiss vs chin movements and fake saphire crystals. Huuuh long list. But I guess what we see is probably the results of people having problems, whereas the ones which are happy simply keep their watch and we dont read about it. So maybe I should give it a second chance, have a watch maker taking a look at the movement and maybe get a PAM 177 and a IWC Jones. Since all watches I have, are equiped with ETA 6497, I am thinking about buying the watch repair course at Time Zone. It seems to be a rather basic and simple movement so I guess as a beginner is should be a good start. And if something goes wrong it is not the end of the world. I sort of like the idea of being able to fix my own watch, which is something I would never do with for example Reverso GT or vintage Rolex SD. About the present problem, that it stops after 12 hours. I winded it yesterday night and thought I should let it go until it stops. So far 19 hours have passed and it still keeps perfect time. It seems very strange, so I will continue studying how this problem occurs. Thanks for comments and suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 I realize that for some reason the same movement does not work in the same way when put in a rep. And also more or less everything else seems to break within a short period of time (one guy even exampel said that the arms of a IWC Jones allways breaks when you service it). So not even the simplest watches with the simplest and best quality movement seems to last for a very long time. And after all, 250 usd is not so little money. It is of course nothing compared with a gen, but it is still a considerable amount of money and at least I expect to get something decent in return. I came to this exact conclusion after spending lots of money on various reps. My last few watches have all been used gens around 400-500 (usd) , all in perfect working condition. I don't want to make a general statement about reps, I know a lot of people here have had good luck, but my luck has been terrrible. I would say about half of my reps had major problems within a month. Some of these I can fix, but I would like to wear it a while before it goes on the table. I would like to see some type of warranty with reps. Of all the watches out there, reps need a warranty the most due to the lack of quality control. I still may pick up one of the new Breiltings, but if that goes bad it may be my last one. I just can't afford reps any more. Sorry if this sounds like a negative thing to say on my favorite watch forum, but it has just been too many disappointments lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrnixon Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 As the thread started, I experienced some problems with my swiss ETA 6497. It suddenly stopped after around 12 hours. I then decided to be more careful and systemantic to see if I could find out more abut it. After fully winded, the watch then worked around 36 hours and then stopped. I tried to make it move again but appears to be no power left. The second time I wind it fully and the watch stops after 11 h. I then pull the crown out and roll it so the arms are moving and then set the watch. It then starts to work again and has been working since then. When working, the watch keeps absolutely perfect time. If anyone has any idea of what this can be, it would be interesting to hear. Thanks Ulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 It sounds like the hands could be touching on the dial or each other... The fact you moved the hands, and the watch continued to run, confirms this. If you can take the hands off, and see how long it runs, you will have your answer to what the problem is... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrnixon Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 It sounds like the hands could be touching on the dial or each other... The fact you moved the hands, and the watch continued to run, confirms this. If you can take the hands off, and see how long it runs, you will have your answer to what the problem is... RG Hello again Thanks for your reply. It is really super to have someone with your skills here on the forum. I guess I was not very clear. What happened was that the watch stopped totally. The very fast visable rotating brass wheel (the one below the regulator) stopped, so the watch was totally dead. But when I pulled out the crown and turned it back and forth a little so that the arms were moving, the movement started again and has now been moving for around two hours. And now it keeps perfect time again. Since it is also rather random, I, with no knowledge what so ever, get the feeling that there might be some dust, small things etc in there stopping the wheels. But I cannot see anything like that when I look through the back of the watch. Thanks Ulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 It's not dust, there is something stopping the hands, or jamming somewhere. If the watch was stopped, and you pulled the crown out and the watch started again, then that indicates that the hands are a problem, you have to look at them and see what is wrong, or have someone look at it, find the problem, and fix it... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Thanks for chearing me up! Maybe you are right, it is not as bad as it looks. When you read the problem discussions (I have almost only followed the Panerai related) it contains everything from movement problems (espcially the chronographs of course), canon pins which are too short, crystals cracking (pam 127), hands which cannot be service, bezel problems, and now lately misunderstandings of swiss vs chin movements and fake saphire crystals. Huuuh long list. But I guess what we see is probably the results of people having problems, whereas the ones which are happy simply keep their watch and we dont read about it. So maybe I should give it a second chance, have a watch maker taking a look at the movement and maybe get a PAM 177 and a IWC Jones. Since all watches I have, are equiped with ETA 6497, I am thinking about buying the watch repair course at Time Zone. It seems to be a rather basic and simple movement so I guess as a beginner is should be a good start. And if something goes wrong it is not the end of the world. I sort of like the idea of being able to fix my own watch, which is something I would never do with for example Reverso GT or vintage Rolex SD. About the present problem, that it stops after 12 hours. I winded it yesterday night and thought I should let it go until it stops. So far 19 hours have passed and it still keeps perfect time. It seems very strange, so I will continue studying how this problem occurs. Thanks for comments and suggestions. I've had terrific luck with my replicas but i also treat them like newly hatched chicks so...I'm not very hard on them. I do have an upper limit of $300 for a replica watch. Anything over that just isn't worth the risk. There are far too many excellent "entry level grade" Swiss watches from companies that actually have a factory in Switzerland and that offer a real warranty in the $400 to $1000 range that I would never consider paying that much for a replica. I'd rather wear a 1K Hamilton Jazzmaster Chrono than a fake $800+ Swiss 7750 Navitimer from the dark abyss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrnixon Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 I've had terrific luck with my replicas but i also treat them like newly hatched chicks so...I'm not very hard on them. I do have an upper limit of $300 for a replica watch. Anything over that just isn't worth the risk. There are far too many excellent "entry level grade" Swiss watches from companies that actually have a factory in Switzerland and that offer a real warranty in the $400 to $1000 range that I would never consider paying that much for a replica. I'd rather wear a 1K Hamilton Jazzmaster Chrono than a fake $800+ Swiss 7750 Navitimer from the dark abyss. I agree with you. I started this interest when I was looking for a real Pam 111H. It is a rather unusual watch in terms of size and design so when I saw a rep (totally clean without any text saying Panerai etc) for around 300 usd with Swiss Eta, I thought, why not buy it as a way of testing if I like the watch type. If I like it I buy the real one and make a vintage-look-alike wabi of this one. I guess I was a bit naive then, I thought something like "Good. Putting the same swiss movement in a super simple watch, how difficult can it be? There should be nothing on this watch that does not last a life time since there is practically nothing moving on this watch appart from the lever". It is of course easy to get worked up and when you see the pictures and fantastic prices compared with gens and you want to buy almost everything I see. After buying that first watch I started reading more and realized that my initial view was maybe not right and that there are also problems with reps. The nice thing is that they are rather cheap so I was planning to disassemble at least part of it just for the nice feeling of having modified a watch myself. I sort of like that idea and it is certainly something I wouldnt do on a 10 000 usd vintage Sea-Dweller. The drawbacks as i see it are mainly the quality problems (if 30% of watches are received have problems the 300 usd watches have problems it has to be included in the price), lack of service and spareparts, not easy to sell and personally I am a little reluctant emotionally to wear a fake watch. In a way it feels like I am going around trying to pretend or show the world something that is not real, but rather a fake. That was why I liked the clean Panerai, it does not pretend to be one but still has the nice design. Another issue with fake vs gen is that often a gen doesnt have to be more expensive. I have had many Rolexes, Breitlings etc which I had for a couple of years and then sold them and bought something else. In most cases I got the money back, which actually means that it has been a cheaper hobby to deal with the gens than the fake. Well, we all have different views and preferences. I must say though that I like this forum a lot. And I think I will buy two more reps, and IWC Jones and a Pam from Davidsen. I just want to make sure that I get something with decent quality and with a good quality swiss movement. After that I think I will start learning more, maybe buy the timezone's watch makers course and open them up. Would be really fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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