Which Way To Go......help!

[tkeeper]

Hello RWG experts,

Here's another noob question to boil your blood. I am interested in purchasing a PAM 111H or PAM 177H and have been reading like a madman, but I have finally come to the point where I need to pull the trigger or get to steppin'. Everything I have read has narrowed my choice in dealers down to Joshua, Davidsen, or Andrew.

Here's the question.....Barring the customer service qualities (I've heard great things about all 3), who has the BEST PAM 111H or 177H and why? Who's got the closest to the real thing without the price tag? Who's needs the least amount of modding to be "complete". What differences should I expect in build quality? Any other pertinent information should also be included in your responses.

I know, I know....that was several questions, but I am more or less hoping to spur a helpful debate amongst the experts here that might lead to the wealth of info needed to make my purchase.

Lastly, I would appreciate constructive responses and not the standard flaming that stupid questions like mine seem to evoke. That means no "READ, READ, READ", "Buy a real one", or "What a jackass" responses please.

Thank you all for you patience and forthcoming knowledge.

[Usil]

What you want is for someone else to put their time in to responding to your questions rather than you - spending your time (more than you have already) to find the answers. I am being kind here as others will probably be more direct. To narow this down for you - check out all the posts for the past 3 months and you will pretty well have your answers. There are many opinions on what you want to know and only you will be able to make a choice based on what you want in a watch. And that comes from reading.

Usil

[tkeeper]

What you want is for someone else to put their time in to responding to your questions rather than you - spending your time (more than you have already) to find the answers. I am being kind here as others will probably be more direct. To narow this down for you - check out all the posts for the past 3 months and you will pretty well have your answers. There are many opinions on what you want to know and only you will be able to make a choice based on what you want in a watch. And that comes from reading.

Usil

I am new to this forum and not to forums in general.......this is on LOOOOOONG winded version of "READ,READ, READ". In turn I must say again that I have done my reading and as such I have read topics discussing or touching lightly on some of the points, but no direct comparisons as I have asked for. These types of comparisons would most likely come from those who have purchased from more than one of the dealers that I mentioned. I am not asking for anyone to make my decision for me as I am a grown man and can make my own. I am simply asking that people with first hand experince with purchasing and modding PAM 111H or 177H models from these dealers respond with their experinces. SO again I ask that you limit your responses to constructive ones that pertain to the topic.

REMEMBER: If you can't say anything nice or constructive then don't say anything at all.....at least that's what my mom used to tell me.

Of course she also you used to tell me "You fat little lazy bastard!!....You'll never amount to a damn thing just like your cheating no-good shiftless father". So what did she know anyways.

[mrnixon]

Hello RWG experts,

Here's another noob question to boil your blood. I am interested in purchasing a PAM 111H or PAM 177H and have been reading like a madman, but I have finally come to the point where I need to pull the trigger or get to steppin'. Everything I have read has narrowed my choice in dealers down to Joshua, Davidsen, or Andrew.

Here's the question.....Barring the customer service qualities (I've heard great things about all 3), who has the BEST PAM 111H or 177H and why? Who's got the closest to the real thing without the price tag? Who's needs the least amount of modding to be "complete". What differences should I expect in build quality? Any other pertinent information should also be included in your responses.

I know, I know....that was several questions, but I am more or less hoping to spur a helpful debate amongst the experts here that might lead to the wealth of info needed to make my purchase.

Lastly, I would appreciate constructive responses and not the standard flaming that stupid questions like mine seem to evoke. That means no "READ, READ, READ", "Buy a real one", or "What a jackass" responses please.

Thank you all for you patience and forthcoming knowledge.

3 months ago I was where you are now. And after that I think I have read everything on the subject. My impression is that Davidsen (see his posts and web page) has a very good reputation for quality. I get the impression, based on readin not testing, that his latest versions of the PAMs are the very best available. They are a little bit more expensive than the orthers though. Issues to look at if you go for any other seller are the cannon pin, the crystal might crack (pam 127), does the watch really have swiss made ETA/Unitas (if it is referering to only ETA might mean a chinesee version having very little to do what a beginner understands of ETA), and then of course if you are concerned with how similar all the details such as font size etc are. Hope it helps.

[Usil]

I am going to answer your questions for you but your not going to like it.

Who's got the closest to the real thing without the price tag?

This varries. All of them will fall apart in comparison to the gen when you pop the back. Reps change over time with slight changes and different rep versions are released. What is the best - you will get DIFFERENT answers from DIFFERENT people. You have to make the comparisons yourself and decide what you like the best.

who has the BEST PAM 111H or 177H and why?

Again, different people will tell you different things. You would know this if you read the last three months posts. So, you will have to pick the bits and pieces of wisdom that each impart and again - choose what you like the best.

Who's needs the least amount of modding to be "complete".

No one will ever be complete. The movement is generally an Asian copy that can be very reliable or if you are unlucky can give you a lot of problems. All of them will have some Asian copy of some movement. It is a never ending journey and depends on how far you want to go.

What differences should I expect in build quality?

All are manufactured in Asian shops with very little to zero quality control. Add drop shipping to mix and what you get is risk that we all accept when we place the order and you will too. Never spend money you can not afford to loose or have escalate based on problems.

You probably won't think this is constructive and all of it could have been gleened from the last three months posts. You will probably think that I have been evasive giving inexact answers. If you had read the last three months posts you would have seen that this is an inexact hobby.

So, pick a dealer that advertizes in this forum and you should soon (1 to 2 weeks but can go longer) be the happy owner of a new rep. All of them wil get you a watch or we soon learn who is not a worthy dealer. If you like some mods already done - select Davidson.

Good luck.

Usil

Edited February 1, 2007 by Usil

[Pugwash]

Lastly, I would appreciate constructive responses and not the standard flaming that stupid questions like mine seem to evoke.

I advise you to give us more info then.

What price range are you looking at? Where do you live? What are your criteria?

I mean the answer is most likely going to be Davidsen's 111h, but let's make sure first.

ps. I take it your research missed the huge thread yesterday where this very answer was hashed out by several people ...

[t]

last time i told a friend: "in few years will Panerai overtake Rolex from Number 1 of watch ranking list." He ask me: "Why are you so sure?". I say: "None noob ask more for the best sub, all wants the best PAM 111"

[mrnixon]

Hello RWG experts,

Here's another noob question to boil your blood. I am interested in purchasing a PAM 111H or PAM 177H and have been reading like a madman, but I have finally come to the point where I need to pull the trigger or get to steppin'. Everything I have read has narrowed my choice in dealers down to Joshua, Davidsen, or Andrew.

Here's the question.....Barring the customer service qualities (I've heard great things about all 3), who has the BEST PAM 111H or 177H and why? Who's got the closest to the real thing without the price tag? Who's needs the least amount of modding to be "complete". What differences should I expect in build quality? Any other pertinent information should also be included in your responses.

I know, I know....that was several questions, but I am more or less hoping to spur a helpful debate amongst the experts here that might lead to the wealth of info needed to make my purchase.

Lastly, I would appreciate constructive responses and not the standard flaming that stupid questions like mine seem to evoke. That means no "READ, READ, READ", "Buy a real one", or "What a jackass" responses please.

Thank you all for you patience and forthcoming knowledge.

Just my thoughts on buying something and then plan to start the modifying process. I have not done it, so take my comments for what they are. I would not do it. Instead I would go for the best possible one and just keep it. To buy something good and bring it home, wire money etc will cost you $ 300-400. The on top of that you will have to buy the parts, probably send it around to someone to do the job for you (relatively cheap job maybe but you also have insured shipping). That means that you will end up spending quite a lot of money on something which will still not be a gen. Instead it probably would be cheaper to buy a gen and if you get tired of it you can sell it and get your money back. If you get tired of a rep you cannot sell it and get your 550 usd (or whatever the total cost will be) back.

[tkeeper]

Thank you mrnixon and pugwash for at least abidding by my request for constructive responses. Usil on the other hand obviously did not "READ, READ, READ" my original post or my response to his original response. tsk, tsk

My hope was that at least a few of the more astute hobbyists whom have purchased the same model from at least 2 of the listed dealers would be able to give his/her educated comparison, thus giving me the buying edge I was hoping to gain by starting this thread. I guess I'll just end up buying one from Davidsen.

To quell the curiousity of those wondering and also to answer Pugwash's questions my story will follow;

I am a professional poker player in So. Cal. As such I play at the highest stakes tables available in the cardrooms of L.A. and the surrounding areas. Recently there have been a rash of parking lot robberies where as the culprits are watching the tables for those with deep stacks then waiting for them to cash out and then robbing them in the parking lot. As if this weren't enough they are also demanding the wristwatches of their victims. I can handle the loss of money as I am quit sure that my bankroll is sufficiently insulated as to take a 3-5K hit, but my watch collection is precious to me and some of my watches are limited editions which would include my PAM 229 (Limited production of 100). The problem with a replica does not stem from my want to fool a would be perp (as they are probably too stupid to tell the difference anyways) it stems from my need to convince some of my peers, as many of them are very astute collectors themselves. On many occassions we will toss our newly aquired timepieces across the table for inspection by a fellow collector. This would lead me to the need for a watch that can pass the scrutiny of these fanatics. All in all, I'm looking for a watch that will serve it's pupose for the time being till these idiots are caught. After that I could care less and will probably never buy another replica again. Hell, after it's all said and done I might just toss the replica under a bus or just give it away to whomever was the most helpful in this decision and gave me the least amount of [censored]. hehe

Again I thank those in advance whose advice may be of any help.

[Pugwash]

Again I thank those in advance whose advice may be of any help.

Davidsen 111h with any custom strap. Don't go with a replica strap as it's a dead giveaway. If you want to talk straps, you need to talk to V, our resident strapmeister, but anything from a good dealer will do, but look in the $50-$150 range. With a good enough strap, the rest of the watch will be assumed to be real, especially around a card table.

[Usil]

Good information was provided to you. Davidson is the concensus for your rep but it would have helped knowing your intent up front. My info was also good and summarized quite a few threads and as Pugwash pointed out the info was available to you as recently as yesterday. Sorry to ruffel your feathers but I assumed you were in it for the long run.

Usil

[jonthebhoy]

It's official. The "Who has the best sub?" has now been surpassed by "Who has the best 111h?"

Similar thread here.

JTB

[baltic]

It's official. The "Who has the best sub?" has now been surpassed by "Who has the best 111h?"

Aye the subs been sunk.

Sorry couldn't resist, gets coat...

[sssurfer]

As if this weren't enough they are also demanding the wristwatches of their victims. I can handle the loss of money as I am quit sure that my bankroll is sufficiently insulated as to take a 3-5K hit, but my watch collection is precious to me...

Nice story.

Then, why looking for a rep? Wearing just a plastic quartz (or nothing at all) when you go in such risky areas would not be effective enough in protecting your precious pieces?

[krsone]

Recently there have been a rash of parking lot robberies where as the culprits are watching the tables for those with deep stacks then waiting for them to cash out and then robbing them in the parking lot. As if this weren't enough they are also demanding the wristwatches of their victims.

I have a similar problem with Pirates of the Caribean, I am only here until we do away with those scurges, then to Davey Jones locker with any Reps.