More mechanical movement questions

[stang]

More mechanical watch newbie questions I hope someone can answer.

1) Is it OK to keep the chronograph running for extended periods of time? One thing I hate about chronographs is the "small seconds" display. I prefer to have the large, center seconds hand moving ... which can only be acheived when the chrono is running. On my quartz watch, I don't keep the chrono running because I think it will drain the battery quicker. Since my mechanical chrono is an automatic I don't have to worry about draining the power. Can I keep the chronograph running for long periods of time (a few hours or all day) w/o damaging the movement?

2) sometimes when I gently "swirl" or "shake" the watch back and forth to get the rotor turning (to wind the watch following extended inactivity) the rotor keeps spinning in the case long after I stop moving it. I've heard it spin about 4 to 6 revolutions after I stop moving it!! I thought the spring's resistance would make the rotor stop spinning quickly. Is this normal and/or OK?

3) how many turns of the crown does it take to completely wind the mainspring from a complete stop (fully un-wound)? Similarly, how many turns of the rotor does it take to wind the mainspring completely?

Please reply if anyone knows the answer to any/all of these questions. Thank You, in advance, for any insight and knowledge anyone cares to share along these lines. I'm sure there are other newbies who have the same or similar questions.

Sincere regards,

Jeff

[RWG Technical]

Have a look here, many articles on what your looking for, but you have to be willing to put the time in and go through them and read. I spend hundred's of hours doing these posts up so the information is readily available as a resource to everyone, the answers you need are in there.

For the chronograph questions, there is a 3-part series on the 7750 alone, explaining everything on the movement and how it works.

The 7750 has been discussed, disected, and explained more than any other movement we have, both in my subforum, and also on the open board.

Start at the top with the pinned glossary, basics, etc and move into the 7750 articles, the answeres are all in there.

Everything you always wanted to know about movements, but were afraid to ask...

RG

[stang]

The Zigmeister,

Thanks, again, for your assistance. I need to remember that I'm a VIP member and can do a search more than once. I do try to search for information before submitting a new topic but I seem to have trouble selecting the right keywords for the search. I typically get either dozens of hits, or none, ... not sure why. Maybe I am a bit lazy since I give up after 30 - 60 minutes of data mining through verbose posts. However, it's easier to search for my answers than type out a long post and check my grammar, spelling & syntax before I submit my new topic.

As usual, your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks for all you've done to help me and others.

Regards,

Jeff

P.S. Happy St. Patrick's Day!!

[deltatahoe]

here's a quick tip on searching through threads: let's say you want to find out about your 7750 chronograph question.

first click on the search link up on the top right hand corner of the page, then type in the search by keywords field (without the ' markers -- i'm just using them to denote what you're inserting in the field) '7750 and chrono and running' -- note that by inserting the and between words, it is looking for each of the words individually, not in a string. if you just type '7750 chrono running,' you are only searching to find that particular phrase. so if you use my search string (7750 and chrono and running) and bang, you have seven pages of threads with those three words somewhere in the thread.

so you say to yourself, that's a lot of pages to look through -- there has to be a better way. well, there is a better way. you can limit what areas of the forum to search in by going down below to the "search where" box and click on any area of the forum. given your question is technical in nature, the technical info, how-to, movement reviews section seems like a good place to start. so click on that section, hit search (with the same keywords - 7750 and chrono and running) and poof, one page of relevant results appears.

you may already know all of the above, but if you didn't i figured it could be helpful.

deltatahoe

[stang]

Guys,

I must be the dumbest scientist in the world....

I read all three of The Zigmeister's Asia 7750 articles several times, plus his Watch Basics 101 & 102 a few times. I've searched the Watch Repair & Upgrade forum and the Technical Info forum (both the Reviews and Q&A sections). I used keywords like chrono running constantly, chrono always on, keep chrono on, keep chrono running, chrono always running. (using both chrono and chronograph). I use the search field at the lower-left side of the screen to search within the sub-forum but always get the darn:

"Sorry, but we did not find any matches to display. Try again and broaden your search criteria. If you were searching for new posts since your last visit, it's possible that there are none to show."

Best I can determine (from The Zigmeister's Asia 7750 3-part series) is that it is OK to keep the chronograph ON all the time. Here are some selected excerpts from the articles which lead me to that conclusion.

with the chronograph ON, the clutch is released, therefore the drag on the movement is reduced (the brake is off, so less resistance now) and the 12-hour wheel is free to rotate

the chronograph seconds gear presents little to no load to the movement

For his: "which position causes the most wear to the 12 hour wheel & clutch, and has the most drag/friction on the basic movement:" question...

Your choices are:

1. Chrono in the OFF position

2. Chrono in the ON or Running position

3. Chrono in the STOPPED position

If you answered 2, then you have failed the test and must send me all your watches (My address is Mr. PM, 24 Sussex Drive, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada).

If you answered 1 and 2, then you passed this part and can move on to the next installment and you get to keep your reps (for now, more quizzes to come, your not off the hook yet).

Note: I believe he meant "3" in the first answer since 2 would seem to contradict the article's info plus the answer just below it saying "1 and 2" were OK.

Also, part 3 of the article series poses the question I ask, but refrains from providing the answer. If I misinterpreted his explanations please let me know because I'm about to leave my chrono running.

Thanks for trying to help a complete idiot who can't seem to work a simple search engine properly. The articles are superb (shameless flattery to elicit assistance) but don't give the punchline answer to the part 3 "Is it OK to leave..." question.

Regardless, thanks for your replies and attempts to aid the "thinking impaired".

Sincerely,

Jeff

[RWG Technical]

Hey Jeff,

Well I am glad to hear that you did find some of the answers and information useful.

Search engine I have no luck with either, even when trying to find a post I know I did up myself and some of the words I used in the title.

From the detailed 7750 posts, with the chrono ON, the only thing that takes place is the tilting Pinion tilts over, and engages into the center seconds wheel, the center seconds wheel tab will tick a minute over on the 30 minute counter each revolution, and the brake lever on the 12 hour counter is released.

That's all that happens, none of this will cause any more wear or stress on the movement, so leaving the chrono ON all the time is fine, as is leaving it off all the time. I prefer to leave it running as much as I can.

Question 2, you should have gotten the info for, it's a uni directional winding, so no resistance in that direction, and it will spin freely. Just a quirk.

As for the number of turns for a full wind, with the crown, you will feel the resistance go up when it's fully wound and bridle is slipping on the barrel sides of the mainspring. Probably 30 or so on a 7750 and 2836, 2892 is more like 70 turns...

No idea on the number of rotor turns needed.

Cheers,

RG

[stang]

The Zigmeister,

You RULE brother! For real. I'm so glad you're a member here, I would have surely damaged (or outright mangled) my watch if not for your experience and direction with respect to mechanical movements. (For example: I would have reset my chrono near the 30 sec mark, shaken it to "fix" a problem and frequently reset the time and/or date) Thanks for taking the time to reply to my newbie questions even though you've probably answered them dozens of times before for other members.

Question 2, you should have gotten the info for, it's a uni directional winding, so no resistance in that direction, and it will spin freely. Just a quirk.

Mine seems to spin quite freely in either direction, although it typically spins w/ some resistance after 40-50 revolutions. Clockwise or counter-clock yields the same results for some reason (?). Oddly, I can sometimes hear/feel the rotor (apparently) make a full revolution or two after just slightly tilting or moving the watch a bit. Almost like the mainspring was powering a brief burst of energy to move the rotor. Strange. Also, another member mentioned that the new Asia 7750 was an exact copy of the ETA 7750, which is bi-directional. I'm assuming he's mistaken.

As for the number of turns for a full wind, with the crown, you will feel the resistance go up when it's fully wound and bridle is slipping on the barrel sides of the mainspring. Probably 30 or so on a 7750 and 2836, 2892 is more like 70 turns...

I've gone up to 100 turns, all with the same resistance(?). Maybe I simply can't feel the change in resistance after 30 turns. It's always a moderate resistance going clockwise and no resistance & a clicking sound when going counter-clockwise.

No idea on the number of rotor turns needed.

Fair enough ... you can't know *everything*!

Search engine I have no luck with either, even when trying to find a post I know I did up myself and some of the words I used in the title.

Good, now I don't feel as stupid. I either get no hits or 4+ pages when I reduce my keywords to just "chrono".

Thanks again The Zigmeister ... You Da Man.

Deltatahoe,

Thanks for the search utility hints. I didn't realize that I had to include the word "and" to have it look for each word individually. I'm used to Google which looks for all the keywords individually unless you enclose them in quotes. The "&" sign will require Google to find all the keywords but not necessarily together or in the order typed. RWG's engine apparently works very different (differently(?) My grammar stinks :yucky: ).

BTW, do you live in Reno (Lake Tahoe)? I went there on vacation years ago ... just a gorgeous area. Skied Heavenly & Squaw Valley for 5 days, right after a 2 foot snowfall. Probably the best skiing I've ever experienced (I'm a NJ resident and the Appalachians don't compare w/ the Rockies for skiing). IM(LTH)O, the Lake Tahoe area is one of the best vacation spots anywhere (skiing, powerboating, dirtbiking/ATVing, casinos, etc). You're a lucky guy if you live there...

[RWG Technical]

Mine seems to spin quite freely in either direction, although it typically spins w/ some resistance after 40-50 revolutions. Clockwise or counter-clock yields the same results for some reason (?). Oddly, I can sometimes hear/feel the rotor (apparently) make a full revolution or two after just slightly tilting or moving the watch a bit. Almost like the mainspring was powering a brief burst of energy to move the rotor. Strange.

There is not a lot of resistance in the winding direction, but it should not spin freely in the winding direction, if it does there is a problem. If the rotor turns as you say after tilting the watch, then your click wheel is not working as it should. What is happening is that the click wheel (autowinding one) should lock and prevent the mainspring from releasing or feeding back into the rotor, when it slips, the mainsprping will unwind into the rotor and the rotor will turn. I have seen this numerous times, I correct it by gluing the click spring in place so it doesnt' unlock from the click wheel.

Also, another member mentioned that the new Asia 7750 was an exact copy of the ETA 7750, which is bi-directional. I'm assuming he's mistaken.

Yes he is mistaken, unidirectional on the 7750, all of them...

I've gone up to 100 turns, all with the same resistance(?). Maybe I simply can't feel the change in resistance after 30 turns. It's always a moderate resistance going clockwise and no resistance & a clicking sound when going counter-clockwise.

The resistance is slight to not noticeable on most 7750's, and there will be no audible "click click" as on a 2836, as this model has a smooth sided mainspring barrel, the 2836 has a notched barrel that makes the clicking sound.

RG

[scoobs1971]

The resistance is slight to not noticeable on most 7750's, and there will be no audible "click click" as on a 2836

My 28.8k A7750 has a very strong resistance turning it clockwise and I really have to be carefull not to let it slip and screwing in the crown. Counter-clockwise it has a nice audible 'click click'. That's why I've always thought I should wind it counter-clockwise to give it some power.

[RWG Technical]

My 28.8k A7750 has a very strong resistance turning it clockwise and I really have to be carefull not to let it slip and screwing in the crown. Counter-clockwise it has a nice audible 'click click'. That's why I've always thought I should wind it counter-clockwise to give it some power.

The resistance you feel is probably not the mainspring, especially if the resistance is constant, ie it never changes as you wind the watch up. And when you feel very strong resistance, you have a problem with the movement.

The resistance your feeling is the autowinder click wheel clutch arms grabbing and sticking in the autowinder bridge. Like any autowinding movement, it's not good to hand wind too much, the resistance your feeling will only get worse, and each time you wind, the clicks are getting damaged.

Counter clockwise on the crown does nothing, the click you feel and hear is the sliding pinion and winding pinion gears slipping against each other. They have cooresponding sets of directional teeth that engage and lock the two gears to each other when you try to wind the watch (CW) and slip against each other when you turn the crown in the other direction (CCW). You are not winding the watch by turning the crown CCW, the only thing that takes place is the gears slip and wear out. It's not really necessary or needed to turn the crown this way, when I wind, I go forward only, not back and forth.

RG

[scoobs1971]

Like any autowinding movement, it's not good to hand wind too much, the resistance your feeling will only get worse, and each time you wind, the clicks are getting damaged.

Thnx Rob! I'll stay away from handwinding and possibly damaging the movement (only did it 2 times so far..).

[RWG Technical]

Thnx Rob! I'll stay away from handwinding and possibly damaging the movement (only did it 2 times so far..).

Good idea, I only wind by hand just enough to get it going, set the date and time, and put it on my wrist.

A number of Asian 7750's come like this, with a sticky click wheel, and a lot of resistance while hand winding. I have seen some hand wound so hard by their owners, that the transfer gear (the one between the autowinder and the mainspring gear) was completely stripped of it's teeth...it's only brass afterall. But you have to really try to do this type of damage. Keep it to a minimum, and only slow and it should be fine.

RG

[stang]

My 28.8k A7750 has a very strong resistance turning it clockwise and I really have to be carefull not to let it slip and screwing in the crown. Counter-clockwise it has a nice audible 'click click'. That's why I've always thought I should wind it counter-clockwise to give it some power

Scoobs,

I have similar results, although the clockwise (CW), winding, direction doesn't give very strong resistance. I would classify it as moderately firm. Meaning, it turns w/o much effort but there is definitely some resistance. I figure it's about as firm as removing a sparkplug from an engine head after just loosening it w/ a wrench (able to accomplish by hand, but not just spinning out ... a little force is required). CCW gives same audible clicking & no resistance.

My A7750 seems to be working fine so far, maybe I'm just lucky. With the chrono running constantly I gain about 30 sec/day ... so I reset the time every 7-8 days. I don't know if this is too often. I try to go VERY slow & gentle when setting the time/date.

I'm going to do more research and see if I can adjust the hair-spring tension to make it run a bit slower. I believe there is a lever leading to the balance wheel which can be moved up/down to apparently change the hairspring tension (thus modifying the beat rate(?...)) I don't know how much (sec/day) adjustability the balance spring tension adjustment makes. I do know the balance spring will break if you look at it the wrong way so I'm trying to be very careful.

Hopefully, I can get the average daily variation to less than 15 sec/day. I'll review The Zigmeister's posts again and see if I can find a section on rate adjustment. We'll see.

Good luck,

Jeff

[scoobs1971]

I'm going to do more research and see if I can adjust the hair-spring tension to make it run a bit slower...... I do know the balance spring will break if you look at it the wrong way so I'm trying to be very careful.

Sounds like an adventurous plan. Be very shure what you

[stang]

RE: RATE ADJUSTMENT

Found an excellent article by Gioarmani on how to adjust the rate of a mechanical watch (w/ pictures specific for the Asia 7750 movement). Was in the "Knowledge Base" forum. Click link below for article if interested.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/How-To-Adjust-Yo...eat-t19163.html

[Kollektor]

Good idea, I only wind by hand just enough to get it going, set the date and time, and put it on my wrist.

A number of Asian 7750's come like this, with a sticky click wheel, and a lot of resistance while hand winding. I have seen some hand wound so hard by their owners, that the transfer gear (the one between the autowinder and the mainspring gear) was completely stripped of it's teeth...it's only brass afterall. But you have to really try to do this type of damage. Keep it to a minimum, and only slow and it should be fine.

RG

Very informative. Great info--thanks.