Gauging interest HBB group buy...

[TeeJay]

@teejay, you are on quite the crusade. quit crapping in richard_uk's thread.

You're absolutely right. If people want to do business with the Cartel and run the risk of getting ripped off, why should I care or try and stop them. My apologies Richard, best of luck with your alternate supplier

[rocket754]

my, things have changed regarding the way we all do business with dealers. Well,you either are willing to adjust to this change in how business is done or come up with a new game plan to side step these barriers. Count me out of the group buy. Thanks for your efforts Richard

[thomasng]

BS, I'm not paying with WU. Might as well order from King and use Paypal, and get a better price.

[richard_uk]

well yeah I thought this was pretty much a dead end after my last post above, I really want a HBB but I'm not paying inflated cartel prices no matter how bad I want one.

[CY0811]

Ceramic for me as well if the price is right

[mezzanine]

A word to those that haven't got or seen the HBB in person, but there is a reason beyond the existence of the cartel, for why this watch is so expensive. When I first received it, I honestly wondered whether it made the rest of my watches obsolete. I've got a uPO, Tag Link Chrono, Ingy, portugese, perfect sub, titanium pam, etc... and none come close. This is going to get the majority of wrist time for as long as I can imagine, to the degree that I'm considering selling off a significant % of my reps.

My only reason for this comment is to offer my perspective on the value of some of these super reps. I think that the whole 'cartel' thing has got people confused about the reason for the pricing on some of these. One last thought- while the HBB has almost caused my interest in reps to wane, as it's my 'holy grail'....on the other hand it's almost re-sparked my interest in picking up another rep of this quality. Now I'm thinking about picking up an uEVO and selling off all but a couple of my other watches

[Dutchy]

A word to those that haven't got or seen the HBB in person, but there is a reason beyond the existence of the cartel, for why this watch is so expensive. When I first received it, I honestly wondered whether it made the rest of my watches obsolete. I've got a uPO, Tag Link Chrono, Ingy, portugese, perfect sub, titanium pam, etc... and none come close. This is going to get the majority of wrist time for as long as I can imagine, to the degree that I'm considering selling off a significant % of my reps.

My only reason for this comment is to offer my perspective on the value of some of these super reps. I think that the whole 'cartel' thing has got people confused about the reason for the pricing on some of these. One last thought- while the HBB has almost caused my interest in reps to wane, as it's my 'holy grail'....on the other hand it's almost re-sparked my interest in picking up another rep of this quality. Now I'm thinking about picking up an uEVO and selling off all but a couple of my other watches

Precisely what I will be doing

For me:

Ultimate PO

Steelfish

Evo

Big Bang

Those will be my watches in the (near) future and I will sell off the rest in the course of the next few months

[mezzanine]

It makes me wonder about how these watches could potentially effect the future of the rep industry, from both a dealer and consumer perspective. Obviously this is where things are headed- but if you start to look at this from a dealer's perspective, I think this issue is much more complicated, and I believe the HBB is an example of why.

I realize I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here, and there's been significant discussion of this elsewhere, but I feel it's most relevant in threads like this where there is a potential significant buying decision involved for a number of people.

Some of these new reps are so good, that if I was a dealer, I would start to wonder about how they're ultimately going to start to effect my bottom line. Obviously the vast majority of sales for these guys center around the average consumer who doesn't put a lot of thought into things, but finds this site, and gets their perfect sub and calls it a day.

But for the significant percentage of their clients that are repeat customers, if they buy one of these watches- I think the % of return customers after buying a super rep is probably less, rather than more.

Am I wrong on this? Do these super reps merely inspire greater interest?

I'm a collector, and am probably a minority, from a buyer perspective, as a result- but I can tell you one thing...and that's that I would be very happy with only the HBB as my daily watch.

It makes me believe that part of this 'cartel' thing might be a natural move in the market, not only because these reps are more expensive to get to begin with, but perhaps because they're also so good that it could influence their business model, from a future potential sales standpoint. Honestly, if you're some guy that discovers reps, and you get a HBB, I think your reaction is going to be "I'm done".

[Dutchy]

I think the person, like I do every single time I buy a watch, do think "I'm done" but then get intrigued "well, if they have this, maybe they have another Breit, Rollie, Pannie, in the same quality", so in my opinion it would increase their "need" for the newer, of higher quality, watches.

[mezzanine]

I can understand that, and to be honest, even at greater expense to the customer, the more I think about it, the more I am beginning to believe that watches of a higher standard like these are likely to generate more future revenue, rather than less.

I'm looking at getting an ultimate BCE, purely out of inspiration from this watch and because others have said that it is in the ball park of the HBB from a quality and finishing perspective.

That's what it comes down to. The HBB actually looks like a $10,000 watch. Honestly, I love my Tag Link Chrono and Ingy and uPO, but they might be up for sale soon. Maybe not the PO.

Seriously, though. I'm sitting here and I'm looking at this thing on my wrist, and then I'm looking over at my other watches that are perched nicely by my monitor right now- and I'm thinking "this is my watch".

That's the feeling I've never really got from reps before, that this watch gave me. It's why it's put the habit or process of rep collecting into a state of "re-definition" for me, because it's generally a feeling I only associate with getting a gen. It's that feeling that caused me to wonder whether this could be symbolic of a larger shift in the market- but in reality, it's probably only in my own head.

I do think it's contributed to an ill feeling towards what have otherwise been extremely consciencious and service-oriented dealers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about anything other the pricing of the super reps. I just think that there might be more to the pricing issue...like the actual quality of the watches.

[richard_uk]

All the people that buy the HBB will definitely be back for another watch because within a few months their HBB will be a paperweight.

[mezzanine]

That's why I bought mine serviced. I don't see how the HBB is much worse than other seconds at 9 subdial layouts. I agree with you about the idea of buying it without servicing or a swiss movement, though. I don't know if I would do that, either.

Even with the uBCE, I'm still hesitating because I don't now if it's worth it without getting it serviced, which is expensive. I feel the BCE is more within the realm of acceptability, though, price wise.

I try to avoid asian 7750 movements, but they're not the end of the world if you actually commit to owning one. Either you wait until it's a low enough price that you can justify the potential loss (as I'm going to do with the BCE), or you get it serviced and realize that this is part of the reality of buying a rep chronograph. The HBB is a 'grail watch' for me, so it was worth it...for you, it might not be.

But whatever the case, make your buying decision based on the proper criteria. Not things like "build quality" which I heard TTK mention in another thread, which I feel is unsubstantiated. The build quality is better than other reps, but the quality control has been lacking from some dealers and especially with earlier stock.

[Richard Tracy]

I try to avoid asian 7750 movements, but they're not the end of the world if you actually commit to owning one. Either you wait until it's a low enough price that you can justify the potential loss (as I'm going to do with the BCE), or you get it serviced and realize that this is part of the reality of buying a rep chronograph.

Another safe & smart route into a Asian 7750, is to buy one tried & true from the trading forum...

Usually if they are going to fail they do so within the first month or so....

[richard_uk]

Am I right in thinking that this is not just an asian 7750 but a modified one? the BCE is just a straight forward asian 7750?

[slai]

Is the movement problematic because of the chrono minutes at 3? What if the chrono were never used?

[mezzanine]

Good point about the trading forum, Richard. In fact, that's how I got my HBB, and I think there are a number of advantages to that method.

In terms of the reliability of the HBB movement, this is a discussion that is spilling over into a couple of related threads right now- but my understanding is that the movement is relatively reliable (how reliable is an asian 7750 in the best of times?), because the seconds are still in their native position.

The problem arises with models that try to move the second sub dial to another position with transfer gears. Too much stress. Although The Zigmeister seemed to give the HBB layout the bill of good health...unless someone can correct me on that?

[supermanx]

I have a HBB already and it has not made me loose interest in other reps, other than I am moving away from the less-then great reps. I have since ordered a steelfish and am waiting for it to arrive.

My short list of keeper reps for the near future:

HBB

EVO

Steelfish (maybe?)

Rolex Sub (its serviced and not worth getting rid of at this point but it doesn't get much wear)

Rolex Prez (need an occasional bling watch to round out the collect)

The rest are gathering dust.

I am looking forward to adding another HBB when the prices change, the new IWC Coustau, and maybe a ferrari.

These super reps have actually gotten me more interested in reps, not less. Its actually moved me more away from luxury end gens.