The biggest rep scam site on Earth

[Jawo]

This site is by far the biggest ripoff site out there. Fake specs, outrageous prices, bogus policies, bogus review sites, the list goes on and on. I am just astonished how this site can keep running. I go back to this site from time to time and get a good laugh. It is so easy to see how someone new to reps can get ripped off by them. They own a few sites all of which are scam sites. A fair warning to all noobs.

Bluefakes

Fullswiss

Zenith Motor

Redhotwatch

Bestswiss

Bogus review sites:

Fake Reviews

Replica Inspector

I hope these guys burn in hell

[section8]

i'd be interested to see what kind of watch you actually get since they're posting pictures of gens for each of the watches. What a scammer.

[Jawo]

i'd be interested to see what kind of watch you actually get since they're posting pictures of gens for each of the watches. What a scammer.

You will probably get something like this:

[justaguy88]

Not only are they scammers, but the grammer on their website is horrible!

[TeeJay]

Has anyone ever actually purchassed a watch from sites like these? If so, what was the quality like? I bought my Submariner from Eurofakes/RareReplicas last year for about $800. Now, I'd be the first to admit that pricewise, there are much cheaper watches available. But. The quality of the watch I got was excellent. When it comes to 'passing', it has every feature of a gen, from the number of clicks in the bezel rotation, to the ring on the inside link for tripping the diver's extension

, to the engraving between the lugs. As far as I have been able to tell, every detail has been correct. Now, if these sites are shipping out utter garbage, then fair play, call them out and shame them. But. If it's just a case of the price is high, suck it in. No one wants to pay top dollar for garbage, but, there's a difference between paying for garbage and getting something that is virtually indistinguishable to the gen fresh out of the box with no mods at all... Are their prices high because they are con artists, or are their prices high because their product is good? Quite a difference...

This was what my $800 got me (only mods ever performed, was swapping the bracelet for the NATO strap, and replacing the bezel insert as the original got damaged through wear)

[Corgi]

I was almost scammed by them... but the grammar was the main reason for thinking twice. Call it good instincts, but I didn't make the same mistake!

[TeeJay]

I was almost scammed by them... but the grammar was the main reason for thinking twice. Call it good instincts, but I didn't make the same mistake!

By Who?

If you mean Eurofakes/Rarereplicas, I don't think I got scammed by them (or a mistake) at all. I admit, I now realize that I could've got a pretty decent Submariner for much less than I paid for mine, but, if I did pay around the $200 mark, then I'd expect way more flaws. I paid a fair amount of money, and got a damn nice watch within4-5 days. Was it expensive? Yes. Was it a scam? In my opinion, no.

[Warrcraft]

By Who?

If you mean Eurofakes/Rarereplicas, I don't think I got scammed by them (or a mistake) at all. I admit, I now realize that I could've got a pretty decent Submariner for much less than I paid for mine, but, if I did pay around the $200 mark, then I'd expect way more flaws. I paid a fair amount of money, and got a damn nice watch within4-5 days. Was it expensive? Yes. Was it a scam? In my opinion, no.

Hi Tee Jay,

You brought up a good point, in so far if the watch actually came fully modded "99.99% like original" or something like that as they often claim, then $800.00 bucks while still a little high, might not be too bad of a deal for those that want that high level of accuracy and don't have the skills to perform full mods or the patience to send their watch out to someone to perform the mods for them.

With all due respect to your beautiful watch you have pictured, but it does not look fully modded and ready to go to me at all. Now it may be the pictures, but the typical problems with the cyclops/date, large crown and CG's appear to present in the watch you have pictured. In fact, some of the latest Subs for under $200.00 with the "updated cases" are getting better at addressing these issues.

Is this incorrect, and are you stating these mods were actually performed? Also, what about the serial numbers and model numbers between the lugs? Were they correct, and I am guessing they are the "generic" numbers (and also not finely etched like the gen) that we find on all of the reps?

[HighDef]

Not a scam, rip off,,, YES!!! $100 Noobies/Begin/Drmm and Narikka's b$tch mariner imo look a lot better than yours. There you have my honest opinion.

[teddy boy]

Has anyone ever actually purchassed a watch from sites like these? If so, what was the quality like? I bought my Submariner from Eurofakes/RareReplicas last year for about $800. Now, I'd be the first to admit that pricewise, there are much cheaper watches available. But. The quality of the watch I got was excellent. When it comes to 'passing', it has every feature of a gen, from the number of clicks in the bezel rotation, to the ring on the inside link for tripping the diver's extension

, to the engraving between the lugs. As far as I have been able to tell, every detail has been correct. Now, if these sites are shipping out utter garbage, then fair play, call them out and shame them. But. If it's just a case of the price is high, suck it in. No one wants to pay top dollar for garbage, but, there's a difference between paying for garbage and getting something that is virtually indistinguishable to the gen fresh out of the box with no mods at all... Are their prices high because they are con artists, or are their prices high because their product is good? Quite a difference...

This was what my $800 got me (only mods ever performed, was swapping the bracelet for the NATO strap, and replacing the bezel insert as the original got damaged through wear)

So the fact that they advertise a 27 jewel eta movement that doesn't exist is ok with you? Or the fact that they state that anyone claiming to offer watches with eta movements for less than what they charge is a scam artist (when we all know you can buy said watches for $200 or even less)is ok too? My black sub looks pretty much identical to your's and I paid $225 for mine. That's not rubbing your nose in it, but simply to point out that charging someone $800 for something that can be sold for $225 while claiming that anyone charging less is a rip off artist is unethical.

Gosh, I almost forgot. It's ok to create a fake ratings site to dupe customers into thinking that they're safe in purchasing from your site because other customers have given you positive ratings?

I'm glad that you're satisfied with your watch and it's good that you're not bitter about the price. But suggesting that what they do is ok sort of misses the whole reason that this forum exists.

[TeeJay]

Hi Tee Jay,

You brought up a good point, in so far if the watch actually came fully modded "99.99% like original" or something like that as they often claim, then $800.00 bucks while still a little high, might not be too bad of a deal for those that want that high level of accuracy and don't have the skills to perform full mods or the patience to send their watch out to someone to perform the mods for them.

With all due respect to your beautiful watch you have pictured, but it does not look fully modded and ready to go to me at all. Now it may be the pictures, but the typical problems with the cyclops/date, large crown and CG's appear to present in the watch you have pictured. In fact, some of the latest Subs for under $200.00 with the "updated cases" are getting better at addressing these issues.

Is this incorrect, and are you stating these mods were actually performed? Also, what about the serial numbers and model numbers between the lugs? Were they correct, and I am guessing they are the "generic" numbers (and also not finely etched like the gen) that we find on all of the reps?

As I said, the only mods that have been done to my Sub are replacing the bezel (because the original got scratched) and putting it on the NATO strap. With regards to the cyclops and date, what are the problems? I know that the entire cryatal is offset 2 degrees clockwise, because it was removed and replaced when a piece of lume came off the mount and had to be re-cemented in place. Prior to that, the crystal was perfectly alligned. The Crown and Crown guards are 100% out of the box untouched. Please compare the top pic to the bottom photos. The difference, is in the top photo, the crown is one rotation short of being totally screwed down, but was totally screwed down in the second photos.

Serial and model numbers:

Top:

Orig Rolex Design

16610-T

Bottom:

Stainless Steel

Y912147

I don't know if these are a random serial number, but I know Rolex released a Y Series Sub. Also, yes, the makings are very finely etched (barely visible in the wrist shot)

Not a scam, rip off,,, YES!!! $100 Noobies/Begin/Drmm and Narikka's b$tch mariner imo look a lot better than yours. There you have my honest opinion.

That's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. Please post photos of a totally UNTOUCHED $100 N00bmariner for comparison. I'm not calling you a liar, but, if you're going to make a comment like that, you have to back it up with photos that can be compared.

So the fact that they advertise a 27 jewel eta movement that doesn't exist is ok with you?

Did I say that? No. Don't put words in my mouth.

Or the fact that they state that anyone claiming to offer watches with eta movements for less than what they charge is a scam artist (when we all know you can buy said watches for $200 or even less)is ok too?

Again, I did not say that.

My black sub looks pretty much identical to your's and I paid $225 for mine.

Please could you post photos for comparison? I'd be most interested to compare them.

That's not rubbing your nose in it, but simply to point out that charging someone $800 for something that can be sold for $225 while claiming that anyone charging less is a rip off artist is unethical.

I quite agree. However. What they charge, and what the product is worth, is the very reason I would not buy a gen Rolex.

Gosh, I almost forgot. It's ok to create a fake ratings site to dupe customers into thinking that they're safe in purchasing from your site because other customers have given you positive ratings?

Totally unethical. But. The Cartel do not have a flawless record when it comes to manipulating or outright lying to people about what is available or what they are buying, yet they are still tollerated and people still say they are good to do business with. Same situation.

I'm glad that you're satisfied with your watch and it's good that you're not bitter about the price.

What would I have to be bitter about? I got a watch that features every marking on a gen Rolex (some I'm only now discovering, such as the ring on the Extension deployment link, or the etchings between the lugs, or even the font on the dial) I'm not going to lie and say I'm happy about the fact I could have brought a passable Sub for $200, but, I still do not feel that my watch was excessively priced.

But suggesting that what they do is ok sort of misses the whole reason that this forum exists.

I think you'll find I never once condoned the business practices of scam sites. If you look at my first comment, I asked if anyone who puts these sites down, has actually purchased from them, and how they rated the quality of the product. Nothing whatsoever to do with the business ethics of those selling the watches. Gen Rolexes are

[Torques]

The one watch I received from those thieves for 899.00 fraudulently advertised as a Zenith 31 jewel movement, had a Seagall ST6 movement in it. The midlink was supposed to be solid 18k gold. It is not gold at all of course, just gold colored metal. I did that transaction before finding these sites. They are lying, criminal thieves, plain and simple.

Edited April 22, 2007 by Torques

[HighDef]

The best comparison of your $800 to the $100 rep would be By-Tors review of the submariners I mentioned.

[TeeJay]

The one watch I received from those thieves for 899.00 had a Seagall ST6 movement in it. The midlink was supposed to be solid 18k gold. It is not gold at all of course, just gold colored metal. I did that transaction before finding these sites. They are lying, criminal thieves, plain and simple.

Pics and site name please, naming and shaming is the way forwards here

The best comparison of your $800 to the $100 rep would be By-Tors review of the submariners I mentioned.

You compared a $100 n00bmariner to mine, so that is the comparison that must be made. I find it interesting that no-one has seen fit to post pictures of any watches ever purchased from these sites. I'm starting to suspect that 90% of the "Don't buy from UltraSwissWatch!" comments are from people who have not actually purchassed from them and are simply jumping on the bandwagon to trash those sites. As I said before, I have Zero tollerance for liars. If I find out a dealer misrepresents their product, then I would not do business from them. However, I would only advise people to avoid dealers I have had negative experiences from. I am by no means defending scam dealers, but I do want people who have been ripped off by these dealers to actually prove it by posting their watches, that way, people can judge for themselves what was or was not a scam. Corgi's comment for example, was wholly irrelevent. They didn't buy anything from whatever dealer, so who cares that they nearly got scammed? Nearly never happened. What we need here, is concrete comparitive evidence. I've thrown my watch and the site it came from into the mix, maybe rather than verbally making comparisons, people ought to throw down their own watches and experiences so we can make well informed decisions based on the visual facts, rather than the speculative discussion...

How much of comments like these are truly a case of the dealers being crooks, or people simply being unwilling to pay the price?

Just because it might have been possible to find an unmodded Sub for $100 that looks as good (and I am still waiting for proof of this) that does not mean the dealers were scam artists. I got what I paid for, so I have no problem with the price tag. I do not regret paying what I paid for my Submariner, although, it would have been nice if I could have bought it for cheaper. If I actually could have bought it cheaper, is what this thread/forum are all about determining through comparitive studies.

[kasigi]

I think the point is really that providing one is happy with the price paid and the goods delivered that is all that counts.

[Seltea]

I too was nearly taken in by their clever web. First of all, I believed their fake review site that had BlueFakes as the number 1. Then I went to purchase an Explorer II, but got a bad feeling when I went to pay for it. I backed out just in time, but not before giving them my Email address. They must sell these addresses since I have being getting SPAM every day since.

Luckily, I found RWG and have bought some great reps for a fraction of the Bluefakes price.

[TeeJay]

I think the point is really that providing one is happy with the price paid and the goods delivered that is all that counts.

I agree entirely. With anything, I think the product quality should always match the price paid. I'm very excited about my SMP that I have on order for three reasons. 1. It's a watch I've been after for a while. 2. It's a dealer I've never used before. 3. The price was very low, so I'm keen to see it the quality reflects the price, or if I might have got a good bargain... Only time will tell

The thing that gets me is the people who say "Don't buy from SuperSwissWatches, they're scam artists!" but don't actually provide proof of this scamming for others to be aware of. It comes off as bandwagon jumping rather than informing from experience. Just because the deals from The Cartel are cheaper, that does not necessarily mean the more expensive deals are scams if that other product is of good quality. As I said, if a dealer lies about their product, then they are a scammer. Doesn't matter if they're charging $8 or $800. If what is delivered is not as described, then that is wrong, whoever the dealer is. Please folks, let's see some more watches from these expensive dealers. Let's hear the stories both good and bad, and see the product that goes with it. People can't make informed decisions without all the information.

[TeeJay]

I too was nearly taken in by their clever web. First of all, I believed their fake review site that had BlueFakes as the number 1. Then I went to purchase an Explorer II, but got a bad feeling when I went to pay for it. I backed out just in time, but not before giving them my Email address. They must sell these addresses since I have being getting SPAM every day since.

Luckily, I found RWG and have bought some great reps for a fraction of the Bluefakes price.

With the greatest of respect, how is this any different to Corgi's comment? You didn't buy the watch, so how can you judge their product quality?

With regard to spam, I too get spam. I got spam before I bought my Submariner, and I get spam since buying it. Are you sure that you are only getting spam because of that website? If so, then indeed, bad mark against them, but, in all honesty, that could merely be a coincidence...

[Jawo]

With the greatest of respect, how is this any different to Corgi's comment? You didn't buy the watch, so how can you judge their product quality?

With regard to spam, I too get spam. I got spam before I bought my Submariner, and I get spam since buying it. Are you sure that you are only getting spam because of that website? If so, then indeed, bad mark against them, but, in all honesty, that could merely be a coincidence...

Bluefakes and all their companies are a complete scam, period. The specs on their watches are non existant, and they grade their replicas. Just try calling their 1-800 number. You will be lucky to get anyone on the phone at all. If you do, it will be some idiot named Chad. Ask him a few questions about reps. He doesn't know jack. There are multiple people that got scammed by these guys, and that is a fact. Hundreds of people for that matter. If their financial institution knows they are commiting fraud, and have frozen their accounts, that is something to be said. Teejay, it is funny how you are one of the biggest bashers of the cartel but defend rep companies that sell $800+ watches. I have yet to see 1 legitimate claim of a good dealing or satisfied customer with bluefakes. They are 0 for 7 with the BBB and all their requests to have dispute resolutions turn unanswered. I dare you to buy a watch from bluefakes.

[Torques]

Pics and site name please, naming and shaming is the way forwards here

You compared a $100 n00bmariner to mine, so that is the comparison that must be made. I find it interesting that no-one has seen fit to post pictures of any watches ever purchased from these sites. I'm starting to suspect that 90% of the "Don't buy from UltraSwissWatch!" comments are from people who have not actually purchassed from them and are simply jumping on the bandwagon to trash those sites. As I said before, I have Zero tollerance for liars. If I find out a dealer misrepresents their product, then I would not do business from them. However, I would only advise people to avoid dealers I have had negative experiences from. I am by no means defending scam dealers, but I do want people who have been ripped off by these dealers to actually prove it by posting their watches, that way, people can judge for themselves what was or was not a scam. Corgi's comment for example, was wholly irrelevent. They didn't buy anything from whatever dealer, so who cares that they nearly got scammed? Nearly never happened. What we need here, is concrete comparitive evidence. I've thrown my watch and the site it came from into the mix, maybe rather than verbally making comparisons, people ought to throw down their own watches and experiences so we can make well informed decisions based on the visual facts, rather than the speculative discussion...

How much of comments like these are truly a case of the dealers being crooks, or people simply being unwilling to pay the price?

Just because it might have been possible to find an unmodded Sub for $100 that looks as good (and I am still waiting for proof of this) that does not mean the dealers were scam artists. I got what I paid for, so I have no problem with the price tag. I do not regret paying what I paid for my Submariner, although, it would have been nice if I could have bought it for cheaper. If I actually could have bought it cheaper, is what this thread/forum are all about determining through comparitive studies.

The thread starter references Blue[censored]s, that's who I am talking about.

[Pugwash]

Just because it might have been possible to find an unmodded Sub for $100 that looks as good (and I am still waiting for proof of this)

Just like you, I replaced the bezel insert. Just like you, the only other mods are a NATO strap.

Will that do?

[teddy boy]

Bluefakes and all their companies are a complete scam, period. The specs on their watches are non existant, and they grade their replicas. Just try calling their 1-800 number. You will be lucky to get anyone on the phone at all. If you do, it will be some idiot named Chad. Ask him a few questions about reps. He doesn't know jack. There are multiple people that got scammed by these guys, and that is a fact. Hundreds of people for that matter. If their financial institution knows they are commiting fraud, and have frozen their accounts, that is something to be said. Teejay, it is funny how you are one of the biggest bashers of the cartel but defend rep companies that sell $800+ watches. I have yet to see 1 legitimate claim of a good dealing or satisfied customer with bluefakes. They are 0 for 7 with the BBB and all their requests to have dispute resolutions turn unanswered. I dare you to buy a watch from bluefakes.

IMHO the reaction to the post that started this thread is the assertion that if you got a good watch but just paid too much for it, then perhaps it's not really a scam. Those of us who responded believe that if you make up a watch movement to claim your product is better and create a fake ratings site, that you are actually scamming your customers. I stand by that assessment. So far as posting pictures is concerned, I'm terrible with a camera. I'm going to get my wife to take some pictures of my new white dial ingenieur, maybe I'll ask her to photograph my sub too. But as someone already posted in this thread, By-Tor's review of the noob sub pretty well establishes the point that you can get a comparable watch in terms of appearance for alot less money.

[Torques]

I agree entirely. With anything, I think the product quality should always match the price paid. I'm very excited about my SMP that I have on order for three reasons. 1. It's a watch I've been after for a while. 2. It's a dealer I've never used before. 3. The price was very low, so I'm keen to see it the quality reflects the price, or if I might have got a good bargain... Only time will tell

The thing that gets me is the people who say "Don't buy from SuperSwissWatches, they're scam artists!" but don't actually provide proof of this scamming for others to be aware of. It comes off as bandwagon jumping rather than informing from experience. Just because the deals from The Cartel are cheaper, that does not necessarily mean the more expensive deals are scams if that other product is of good quality. As I said, if a dealer lies about their product, then they are a scammer. Doesn't matter if they're charging $8 or $800. If what is delivered is not as described, then that is wrong, whoever the dealer is. Please folks, let's see some more watches from these expensive dealers. Let's hear the stories both good and bad, and see the product that goes with it. People can't make informed decisions without all the information.

Not all people that state, "they are a scamsite", say so just to jump on a "bandwagon". That is highly presumptious on your part. If I say it is a scam site, it is, because I have either purchased from them or investigated "ALL" of them in deep, lengthy detail.

Edited April 22, 2007 by Torques

[TeeJay]

Bluefakes and all their companies are a complete scam, period. The specs on their watches are non existant, and they grade their replicas. Just try calling their 1-800 number. You will be lucky to get anyone on the phone at all. If you do, it will be some idiot named Chad. Ask him a few questions about reps. He doesn't know jack. There are multiple people that got scammed by these guys, and that is a fact. Hundreds of people for that matter. If their financial institution knows they are commiting fraud, and have frozen their accounts, that is something to be said.

So their business practices suck. Fine. I never disputed that. I said I wanted to see the PRODUCT THEY SELL. Is that too much to ask for?

Teejay, it is funny how you are one of the biggest bashers of the cartel but defend rep companies that sell $800+ watches.

I am not defending any company that lies about their product. I am asking for proof that the PRODUCT THEY SELL is as poor as people are claiming that it is, without any photographic evidence to back up those complaints.

I dare you to buy a watch from bluefakes.

If I had the money to spare I'd be happy to do that. Problem is though, I don't have the money to spare. Chances are I would never use the dealer I bought my Submariner from again, purely because I do not feel the need to spend that much money on a watch again, and I don't really want another Rolex (and that is all they sell). Doesn't mean they are scammers, or their product is poor, it just means they don't have what I want.

The thread starter references Blue[censored]s, that's who I am talking about.

Okay Please can I see a photo of the watch you bought from them?

Just like you, I replaced the bezel insert. Just like you, the only other mods are a NATO strap.

Will that do?

Okay, so the crown guards are slightly wider at the base of the crown. Other than the flaw with the crystal I previously accounted for, I honestly cannot see any difference between that watch and the one on my wrist (other than a better quality NATO strap [mine is generic] and a better photographic setup)

Where was that watch purchassed from, and for how much?

[TeeJay]

Not all people that state, "they are a scamsite", say so just to jump on a "bandwagon". That is highly presumptious on your part.

If they are not jumping on a bandwagon, they will have no problems posting pictures of their poor quality watches so people will see what X price buys, if they feel it was worth it, and if they want to risk using the dealer themself. There is nothing presumptious at all about asking people to prove the point they are making. I am not trying to catch anyone out here, but trying to use this as an oportunity for those who have purchassed from 'scam dealers' to actually display their watches, all in one place, so they can be compared.

So where

If I say it is a scam site, it is, because I have either purchased from them or investigated "ALL" of them in deep, lengthy detail.

are the poor quality watches that

Unless you have actually purchased from them, then what would your investigations prove other than questionable business practices? As I said, I have no tollerance for liars. If a dealer is proven to have misrepresented a product, I'll have nothing to do with them. Please can you post pictures of the watches you have purchased from such dealers? That way, we can all compare them to the cheaper alternatives available and draw our own conclusions from the experience.