The biggest rep scam site on Earth

[Jawo]

So their business practices suck. Fine. I never disputed that. I said I wanted to see the PRODUCT THEY SELL. Is that too much to ask for?

I am not defending any company that lies about their product. I am asking for proof that the PRODUCT THEY SELL is as poor as people are claiming that it is, without any photographic evidence to back up those complaints.

If I had the money to spare I'd be happy to do that. Problem is though, I don't have the money to spare. Chances are I would never use the dealer I bought my Submariner from again, purely because I do not feel the need to spend that much money on a watch again, and I don't really want another Rolex (and that is all they sell). Doesn't mean they are scammers, or their product is poor, it just means they don't have what I want.

Okay Please can I see a photo of the watch you bought from them?

Okay, so the crown guards are slightly wider at the base of the crown. Other than the flaw with the crystal I previously accounted for, I honestly cannot see any difference between that watch and the one on my wrist (other than a better quality NATO strap [mine is generic] and a better photographic setup)

Where was that watch purchassed from, and for how much?

This is the problem Teejay, most people that order from Bluefakes never receive any kind of product. You place a credit card order with them, they send you an e-mail a couple of days later indicating that they do not accept credit card orders for Canadian or International customers. They request that a wire transfer be done instead. The info they give you for the wire, contains multiple routing implementations and money gets routed 4-5 times. People don't get any product, period. I agree with you Teejay about the perceived value of what you buy. This is what makes the world go round. If you think it is worth what you have paid for, then you will be content with your purchase. I am in sales so I know all about that. This however is not the case. These sites are out there purposely to rip you off. I want to make people aware of them and forewarn any newbies to the rep world. Thank god for these forums which helped me from getting completely scammed too.

[TeeJay]

This is the problem Teejay, most people that order from Bluefakes never receive any kind of product. You place a credit card order with them, they send you an e-mail a couple of days later indicating that they do not accept credit card orders for Canadian or International customers. They request that a wire transfer be done instead. The info they give you for the wire, contains multiple routing implementations and money gets routed 4-5 times. People don't get any product, period. I agree with you Teejay about the perceived value of what you buy. This is what makes the world go round. If you think it is worth what you have paid for, then you will be content with your purchase. I am in sales so I know all about that. This however is not the case. These sites are out there purposely to rip you off. I want to make people aware of them and forewarn any newbies to the rep world. Thank god for these forums which helped me from getting completely scammed too.

If that's the case, and they are 100% rip off sites, then by all means, name and shame. I think though, that a distinction does need to be made between sites like Bluefakes that are 100% fakers, to sites like Eurofakes/Rarereplicas that are simply expensive (but do provide a Top Notch product) If that exact product is indeed available cheaper elsewhere, then all well and good, people need to be made aware of that as well, as it's pointless to pay more for a product than necessary. This is why I'm keen for people to post pictures of watches which have been purchased from the 'expensive sites' like mine. Is it worth $800? I don't really think that any watch is worth more than $200 tops, so in that regard, I would say no, it's not worth that price. But. It is a very close rep that has passed as genuine with an experienced watchsmith (until he opened the back) To me, the fact it is not immediately identifiable means it's worth a fair price. Would I be satisfied with a $20, $200 Submariner? Depends how accurate they were and how they compared to mine. I'd certainly have been happy to pay less for mine, but, at the same time, I'm satisfied that the price I paid went for a quality product, and it has certainly never given me the kind of problems that people frequently report on their SMPs or POs which are supposed to be the 'ultimate versions' of those watches. Sure, a piece of lume came loose. Could happen to anyone. Since then, it's been fine. The bezel was only replaced because it got scratched, not because it needed a more accurate bezel fitted... It's all swings and roundabouts, but, I'd still be very keen to see other watches people have purchased from 'expensive sites'.

[Stephane]

[Torques]

So their business practices suck. Fine. I never disputed that. I said I wanted to see the PRODUCT THEY SELL. Is that too much to ask for?

I am not defending any company that lies about their product. I am asking for proof that the PRODUCT THEY SELL is as poor as people are claiming that it is, without any photographic evidence to back up those complaints.

If I had the money to spare I'd be happy to do that. Problem is though, I don't have the money to spare. Chances are I would never use the dealer I bought my Submariner from again, purely because I do not feel the need to spend that much money on a watch again, and I don't really want another Rolex (and that is all they sell). Doesn't mean they are scammers, or their product is poor, it just means they don't have what I want.

Okay Please can I see a photo of the watch you bought from them?

Okay, so the crown guards are slightly wider at the base of the crown. Other than the flaw with the crystal I previously accounted for, I honestly cannot see any difference between that watch and the one on my wrist (other than a better quality NATO strap [mine is generic] and a better photographic setup)

Where was that watch purchassed from, and for how much?

"So their business practices suck". Are you kidding, don't you GET it? They are involved in criminal activity, wire fraud, mail fraud, and racketeering. Now do you understand? Why don't you just drop this [censored] point since you don't know how to speak. If you want to see what they cheat people out of, fine, but reading some of your phraseology is misleading to others who don't know any better. Case closed, unsubscribing.

Edited April 23, 2007 by Torques

[Pugwash]

Okay, so the crown guards are slightly wider at the base of the crown. Other than the flaw with the crystal I previously accounted for, I honestly cannot see any difference between that watch and the one on my wrist (other than a better quality NATO strap [mine is generic] and a better photographic setup)

Where was that watch purchassed from, and for how much?

$100 from TTK in March 2006. It's the famous Noobmariner.

Yes, it's got an etched sapphire crystal, a 120-click bezel, near perfect bracelet, cleanest modern dial out there, good crown guards ... all for $100.

ps. Over a year old and still running very well. I'm about to buy one for the father in law.

[TeeJay]

$100 from TTK in March 2006. It's the famous Noobmariner.

Yes, it's got an etched sapphire crystal, a 120-click bezel, near perfect bracelet, cleanest modern dial out there, good crown guards ... all for $100.

ps. Over a year old and still running very well. I'm about to buy one for the father in law.

That's definitely a good price for the watch then. Out of curiosity, does it have serial number and whatnot etched between the lugs?

[Guest TTK]

@Teejay......here's exactly what you get with my $100 Noobmariners......both the LV and standard black 16610......!

[coolfire]

You just had to post 'em pics again, dude! :clap:

[Guest TTK]

Yep....for around $100 buxx....how can you resist......helps that they're all back in stock again......!

Edited April 23, 2007 by TTK

[Pugwash]

Yep....for around $100 buxx....how can you resist......helps that they're all back in stock again......!

I can't wait for my new one to arrive! Hopefully I'll have my photographic kit out of boxes and set up by then.

[Physher007]

Here is a pic of a YM I purchased from a scam site. It was listed for $650.00 I believe? I ended up getting it "on sale" for Christmas - I believe I ended up paying about $500.00 with a box.

It does have an ETA movement, and I am pleased with the quality all things considered. It is my daily beater, I wear it most days.

But just because I enjoy the watch doesn't mean I wasn't scammed

*edt: BTW I went back to the website and now all they sell are Canal St. Reps with asian movements. $75.00 will buy you any of 'em

[seanf]

Just to echo one of the points TeeJay raised. I think there is a tendency for a lot of people on the board to immediately pounce on any dealer or site not listed here and call them a "scam site," regardless of whether anyone has any real information about them. I can't even recall how many posts I've seen from someone asking a question like, "Has anyone ever dealt with xxxxx? I'm thinking of buying one of their reps," only to have it turn into one post after another saying, "Are you stupid? You want to get scammed? Why don't you just use one of our dealers?"

Understand, I'm not saying anything one way or the other about bluefakes or any specific site. I think the majority of rep sites out there are probably scams. The issue I would raise--and, if I understand him correctly, it's one shared by TeeJay--is that if you're going to bash the site or dealer, then do it with some real evidence. Not just because they aren't listed as a dealer here.

All that being said, I think $800 is way too much to spend for a Sub, as you can get one of very good quality for about $100. But I don't know that I would necessarily say that's a scam. I think it's bad decision for the buyer, no question. But if there isn't a misrepresentation about anything concerning the watch (i.e. calling it ETA when it's not), I wouldn't necessarily call it a scam. But, as I don't have any specific information about TeeJay's purchase, or, for that matter, bluefakes, I can't really say.

All I would say is that, for me, there is a difference between a scam site--where you don't get what you think you're getting--and just paying too much for a rep.

[Jawo]

All that being said, I think $800 is way too much to spend for a Sub, as you can get one of very good quality for about $100. But I don't know that I would necessarily say that's a scam. I think it's bad decision for the buyer, no question. But if there isn't a misrepresentation about anything concerning the watch (i.e. calling it ETA when it's not), I wouldn't necessarily call it a scam. But, as I don't have any specific information about TeeJay's purchase, or, for that matter, bluefakes, I can't really say.

All I would say is that, for me, there is a difference between a scam site--where you don't get what you think you're getting--and just paying too much for a rep.

Order a watch from them and this is what you will get:

You recently placed an order with us online.

At the present time we can not accept COD or Credit Card for our Canadian or International Clients.

To pay for your order we request either a Bank or Wire Transfer.

Both methods are easy, simple and secure and instructions are below.

Order a watch from them and this is what you get:[/u]

ORDER # XXXXX - $1100 USD (Discounted Per Chad's Instructions) - BFDAYTONA5 /

Please follow the directions below to send us payment.

Any questions please email us back at transfer@kateship.com or call directly at 714-200-6917.

Thank you,

Rita Harris - Owner - www.bluefakes.com

__________________________

You can initiate a Federal Reserve wire transfer through your personal bank. We also allow ACH Transfers as well, please contact us for info.

Note: Wire transfers are limited to $2500 per day.Wire transfers can NOT exceed $2500.00 USD.

Please print this form out and take it with you when you initiate a wire transfer at your local bank.

Receiving ("To:") Instructions:

Bank Name: Centennial Bank

Bank (Routing) ABA: 124303065

Bank Location: 801 N 500 W, Bountiful, UT 84010 - USA

Beneficiary (recipient of wire funds) Information

Name of Account Holder: Rita Harris

Account Number: 001111624654

Our Office address, if needed, is: 16 Talbert Avenue, Brooklyn, NY 11220

___________________________

Once you have completed sending payment to us then email us back with your information of the transfer. Email - transfer@kateship.com

International and outbound Canada packages take 1 week for delivery.

All packages are sent out as gifts and should have no duty taxes on them. All packages will not have our company name on them in order to avoid taxes again.

Thank you choosing us and we look forward to your next order.

Rita - Owner

Contact me directly at rh@kateship.com or #011-01-714-200-6917

The phone number goes to some Hispanic guy with no indication of a company name, and the voicemail is full. The bank that the money is supposed to be wired to, does not exist. No Centennial bank at the indicated location. There is a routing number which indicates that the money is redirected through different channels. The money ends up at a prepaid debit/credit card company. The funds are withdrawn as soon as the money is deposited. By the time a victim, tries to trace the direction of the funds, the money is withdrawn. Routing systems are designed to throw off traces of the funds. You will not get any return e-mail or communication afterwards. When you call "Chad" at their business line, once you inquire about your order, he will hang up on you. He will just shut off his cell phone. It is up to you guys to either believe me or not. It doesn't matter. I was a victim and got my money back. The whole purpose of joining these forums was to obtain knowledge and advice to make wise purchase decisions and to share a common passion. No one wants to get ripped off. I share this info in hope that people do not get ripped off by these scammers.

[Pugwash]

But I don't know that I would necessarily say that's a scam. I think it's bad decision for the buyer, no question. But if there isn't a misrepresentation about anything concerning the watch (i.e. calling it ETA when it's not), I wouldn't necessarily call it a scam.

"Genuine Swiss ETA 2892-2 27 Jewel Movements."

"Solid 18K Gold Links,Bezel & Crown."

"Other sites price gouge the 27 movements but we will match or beat any listed price found offline or online. Other sites do not have access nor supply to 27 movements as well, they are limited to selling the 25 jewels."

It's a known scam. We've been through this numerous times. 31j Zenith movements in a Sub?

"Swiss ETA 27-jewel sweeping second hand automatic movement, 100% precise engravings and serial numbers, solid 18k gold, sapphire crystal, and other quality parts... with improved craftsmanship.

Be the First to Own - We are the ONLY place that carries them! No one else has even heard about them or selling the older 25 jewels Swiss in it's place."

[seanf]

@Jawo-- this is exactly the type of information that is helpful and informative to all RWG members. And it is precisely this type of information that is lacking in many of these types of posts. As I mentioned, I have no knowledge of bluefakes or any specific sites. My concern was--and remains--directed at people who have a knee-jerk reaction to any dealer who is not listed on this forum. Your post shows, I think pretty definitively, that bluefakes is a scam site. You showed this with real evidence and real information. This is in complete contrast with the majority of posts like this I've seen. So thanks for providing this type of specific information.

[seanf]

@Pug-- your information proves that there were misrepresentations. So, the site is a scam, no question. You're getting something that is different from what you thought you ordered. But my point remains that I think this is the type of information we need before we start the drums and sound the battle cry of "SCAM SCAM SCAM!!!" Understand-- I am not for a minute defending bluefakes or any other rep site out there. All I'm saying is that if someone asks "Is xxxxx.com a scam site?", I think we owe it to them as members to do more than just shout "SCAM! IDIOT!! WHY AREN'T YOU USING OUR OWN DEALERS?!?!" If we have specific information, like you and jawo have provided, then by all means, we should share it. But if no one has any idea about the site, I think it's fair to express concern based on other sites like it, but it may be jumping the gun to call it a scam site.