HauteHippie Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 In preparation for a PVD project, I've been looking into bead blasting services. I've found what looks to be a good one and wonder what the PVD fanatics around here might think... The example below is a gen 111 with only the case bead blasted (obviously the bezel is untouched). I can get more details about grit sizes, etc if needed, but aesthetically speaking does this sample look about right for a case that would receive a PVD coating? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 @chief, i'm curious -- shouldn't your pvd provider have bead blasting capabilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 @chief, i'm curious -- shouldn't your pvd provider have bead blasting capabilities? Many do not. Most do not, in fact. The vast majority of PVD coating is done for tooling, not jewelry. The most promising bead blaster I've found for small watch parts happens to also offer PVD, but at a very prohibitive price. So, for my project, I'll separate the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Many do not. Most do not, in fact. The vast majority of PVD coating is done for tooling, not jewelry. The most promising bead blaster I've found for small watch parts happens to also offer PVD, but at a very prohibitive price. So, for my project, I'll separate the two. interesting. i would have guessed most would offer pvd. what are other end uses for pvd coatings? this makes me curious -- i wonder if the differences in pvd outcome (shine, sheen, etc) on watches have more to do with the bead blasting or the pvd coating what do you think? btw, the case that you provided the picture of looks well done to me. the fact that someone with a gen panerai sent theirs in to be bead blasted is a little puzzling to me, but to each his own, right? deltatahoe ps, i should be getting back my 111h that i sent off to be pvd'd by rbj sometime in the next week (fingers crossed). i'll post a review of my experience and pics as soon as i get it back.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 interesting. i would have guessed most would offer pvd. what are other end uses for pvd coatings? this makes me curious -- i wonder if the differences in pvd outcome (shine, sheen, etc) on watches have more to do with the bead blasting or the pvd coating what do you think? btw, the case that you provided the picture of looks well done to me. the fact that someone with a gen panerai sent theirs in to be bead blasted is a little puzzling to me, but to each his own, right? deltatahoe ps, i should be getting back my 111h that i sent off to be pvd'd by rbj sometime in the next week (fingers crossed). i'll post a review of my experience and pics as soon as i get it back.... The sheen absolutely has to do with the bead blasting: mesh size, media type, etc. Tooling is the predominant end use for PVD coatings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 The tough part on this one is that you would have to put the final coating on the beadblasted case to see whether it is right. In general there are really only 2 or 3 PVD processes used for most watches -Ti (earliest PVD), TiAln second generatoin PVD and typically on PAM's (don't remember the 3rd) but the bead blasting is what makes the difference and I can't even imagine guessing right on those specs. I will see if I can get Finepic's person to fess up on the beadblasting since he is no longer doing it for watches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 The tough part on this one is that you would have to put the final coating on the beadblasted case to see whether it is right. In general there are really only 2 or 3 PVD processes used for most watches -Ti (earliest PVD), TiAln second generatoin PVD and typically on PAM's (don't remember the 3rd) but the bead blasting is what makes the difference and I can't even imagine guessing right on those specs. I will see if I can get Finepic's person to fess up on the beadblasting since he is no longer doing it for watches. Thanks for the info. Anything from Finepics' person would be helpful, otherwise I'll probably take one for the team and try this process. Talking a bit more to this bead blaster (is that a term?), he says that he only does two types and claims to have the "right" media for prepping Panny cases for PVD. Whether or not this means it's going to be a perfect match to the original PAM process or not, I do not know, but he has done work for several of the Paneristi. The PVD I will use is indeed the TiAlN. The gen is not as dark as I had always thought: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 i know lots of people here only trust rbj as far as they could throw him, but as i said before, i should be getting back my 111h that i had him send off to be pvd coated sometime in the next week (this is the first i've dealt with joe, so it will be interesting to see how this turns out). if after seeing pictures the final product looks good, i'd be happy to ask him to inquire about the specifications of the bead blasting his person uses -- not sure if this would be helpful or not.... just offering it up if you're interested deltatahoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 if after seeing pictures the final product looks good, i'd be happy to ask him to inquire about the specifications of the bead blasting his person uses -- not sure if this would be helpful or not.... Couldn't hurt to ask! I can't wait to see pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eunomians Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I have a custom bead blasted Seiko SKX-007K that is PVD and another SKX-007K that has the non-blasted bezel PVD'd. The non-blasted bezel has a different color, more charcoal colored. The blasted PVD looks the same as OEM PAM PVD process. My 009 from Davidsen is the same color as my blasted PVD Seiko. I know that Davidsen spent a lot of time researching/experimenting with PVD and various blasting methods. It would be nice if someone offered an inexpensive bead blast service. There are quite a few watches I would like to blast with varying gauges of media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I can't wait to see pics. you're telling me!! it's been more than two months since i shipped him the watch on 4/11/07 i'm a patient guy though, and i knew going into this i wouldn't have my watch for a while. i had lost all love for my 111h, but didn't want to sell it (it was my first pam), so i figured i'd be a guineau pig and see how rbj's pvd coating compared to others provided on the board. this kind of stuff is what makes rep collecting interesting, right? anyways, i'll definitely post pictures as soon as i get the watch back... deltatahoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eunomians Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I'm curious, too. Please post pics Deltatahoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 i'd love to pvd my po Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 It would be nice if someone offered an inexpensive bead blast service. I don't know what kind of pricing is normal, but it looks like I'll be paying $55 for the bead blasting. This will include the case and parts: bezel, crown, CG, lever, pin, and strap screws. By the way, that Davidsen PVD looks pretty good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 This will include the case and parts: bezel, crown, CG, lever, pin, and strap screws. don't forget to bead blast / pvd at least one buckle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbiz Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 pvd is physical vapor deposition... it's a different method of plating... involves a vacuum chamber and is much like the way they make high precision mirrors for telescopes, etc... super thin layer... three things will affect the look... the bead used, how close the blaster is and the exact type of coating used... also the pvd coating can be slightly buffed after you're done... that's kinda what that gen pic looked like. others had mentioned powder coating in other threads which is miles and miles different... not even the same game at all... this is closer to electro plating. I would try for a more matte look and using a rouge cloth gently polish to give it a slight sheen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Awesome project, chieftang, and definitely a welcome one! The look of your beadblasted 111 seems good to me. As others pointed out, it is just a first step to a perfect PVD watch. But it is a critical step and I think you made it good. Obviously, the bead blasting affects "just" the texture of the final look, while the PVD coating affects "just" the color. And they both need to be the best possible in order to get to a perfect look. To me, DSN's PVD is very good in color, but sort of dull in texture. Too gross beadblasting I would tell. BTW, that gen 028 relly seems a little too light to me. I am aware that my palp's PVD is a little too dark, but that 028 seems completely out of tone. It actually looks more like a DLC coating. Are you sure it was not DLC re-coated? Anyway, I collected several PVD pics from the net and I already could verify that even the very lighting greatly affects how PVD looks in the end. Thanks for this project, keep us updated! (and I too am waiting for your pics, Delta ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I actually have both DLC and tiAln PVD coated gen crowns. The DLC could pass for ti it is so light. It has also afforded me the opportunity to compare gen old School PAM PVD with a Davidsen and Palp case. Palp is way too dark and the Davidsen I saw is approximately the right color but just too dull (oops matte). By the way the DLC coating is very cool in its own right. It looks entirely different from the current PVD methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 but just too dull (oops matte) Well I suppose it was just my poor English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 BTW, that gen 028 relly seems a little too light to me. I am aware that my palp's PVD is a little too dark, but that 028 seems completely out of tone. It actually looks more like a DLC coating. Are you sure it was not DLC re-coated? sssurfer, the gen pics are straight off Paneristi's reference section. Here are more of that watch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 That's an 8 year old watch, right? Does PVD change color over time? If so, then maybe we want to copy the color of aged PVD for those A series reps. As far as pricing, the best PVD I've seen first hand was done by Jack @ IWW in the summer of 2005. It cost $365 combine with a case rebrush on a 51--which means the PVD alone was probably just under $300. I despised the PVD (the look of PVD in general, not the quality of the work) so much, I sold the piece about 3 days after I got it back. I believe the buyer of the piece posted a bunch of pics, which may be still be searchable on old board (probably July 2005). It might be worth it to search IWW over there, too--maybe someone passed along the method(s) he used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 sssurfer, the gen pics are straight off Paneristi's reference section. I do not question it is a gen watch in a gen forum, I question it is PVD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I do not question it is a gen watch in a gen forum, I question it is PVD. Right, I understood. I have no way of knowing having never seen one in person. But I was thinking that since this is the picture set Paneristi uses as a reference for the PAM 28, that it probably wouldn't be a recoated watch. But maybe it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I don't know what kind of pricing is normal, but it looks like I'll be paying $55 for the bead blasting. That is exactly what Jack at IWW charges for bead-blasting, so the price is in line. (Of course, IWW's price for PVD service is way out of line...now a minimum of $595.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 That is exactly what Jack at IWW charges for bead-blasting, so the price is in line. (Of course, IWW's price for PVD service is way out of line...now a minimum of $595.) Yes, Jack is my man for bead blasting. For PVD, though, I'm going to use a local guy. Jack says that his "satin blast" process is the way to go for PVD prep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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