seraphe Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 I wasn't quite sure which category I should place this thread... "General Discussion" (for my rep shopping experience), "The Panerai Area", or the "Flame-Free corner"... Wait, there isn't a flame-free corner to begin with. Nvm... Anyway, here's the story: Been away for a business trip to a place where internet was scarce and troublesome to find. Now I'm back, and I bring with me a short field report for rep shopping in Jakarta. Before my embarkation to Jakarta, I did a bit of research and found a place in the city to shop for reps. ITC Mangga Dua is one of the largest shopping area in the large 3rd world city. Not only does it hold most of the cheap stuffs for a great pleasurable shopping experience, it can be a great challenging place to hunt for treasures. Note that due to the popularity and the growing number of the Mangga Dua shops, there are newer shopping complexes built next to each other also named Mangga Dua. When you are directing the taxi driver for this place, make sure you tell him 'Mangga Dua Pasar Pagi', which Pasar Pagi means 'morning market'. It's the place famous in the region for rep watches. The old building is HUGE. Look out for the part of the interconnected complexes for the 'blok B' (blok=block in Indo). I was just roaming around and I found this shop on the first floor (No. 50) called "EURO watch" selling some reps. Nothing on the display looks good enough. You've to ask the shop guy to show you the good ones. He managed to get some 'better' PAMs but without the swan necks, so I asked for the automatic PAMs. The automatics are limited in selection, and most of the cyclops looked too shallow. In the end, I found myself looking a the 'Monster'... PAM 187 Sub. I asked for the price. He quoted me IDR 3.5 million (abt US$370). CRAZY! I hit a hard bargain directly down by 50% to IDR 1.2 million. The bargain went on for a while until my final offer was IDR 2 million, which he declined. I told him I give up. Don't want anymore. And started walking away. He called me back and offered IDR 2.7 million. I started walking away again and finally he agreed to IDR 2 million. YAY! $210 for a PAM 187! Never thought he'd agree! Living up the its nickname, the 187 is indeed a MONSTER! It's HUGE at 47mm, thicker than the fiddy and is super HEAVY! It's even heavier than my 'Metal Baby' 111H on SS bracelet!!! I LOVE IT Ok. Here's the question for owners of EL's and the Watchhonpo versions. I've read and seen the pics of the two amazing versions on Full Review of EL's PAM 187... and comparison with WatchHonpo version, ...many photos from different angles and different straps by V. I've compared the two versions to my newly acquired from JKT, and I noticed a big difference just by comparing the pics. How are the lumed markers on each of the two versions? The version I have seem to have glossy lume markers with metal rim around each marker. Is this the same on EL's or Watchhonpo versions? Any other differences are welcomed as well. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Ok. Here's the question for owners of EL's and the Watchhonpo versions. I've read and seen the pics of the two amazing versions on Full Review of EL's PAM 187... and comparison with WatchHonpo version, ...many photos from different angles and different straps by V. I've compared the two versions to my newly acquired from JKT, and I noticed a big difference just by comparing the pics. I need to review mine. Yours has a better blue printed 1000 than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 First thing I noticed, THAT dial and the blue 1000m, nice! None of our dealer versions had that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphe Posted September 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 So the bluish "1000" is good, right? Just made my day! Thanks. So what about the the lumed markers? Do your 187 have this metalic border around the markers? Does the gen has this border? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Nope, sorry. Lume only. One step forward two steps back accuracy-wise I came across a spare dial for my 187 recently - similar to your with metallic surrounded indices. Blue 1000m better than one installed, but still not as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphe Posted September 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Nope, sorry. Lume only. One step forward two steps back accuracy-wise I came across a spare dial for my 187 recently - similar to your with metallic surrounded indices. Blue 1000m better than one installed, but still not as good. Got it! Now I've a new mod project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 What? Removing the metal indices? Yikes, be careful they may not just be glued on but may be attached using 'feet'. My advice would be to leave well alone dial-wise, I mean the lack of AR and sunken crappy font datewheel is giveaway enough as it is BTW, mine was from Eddie, but the Honpo version used the same dial I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Oh and I believe Silix carries your model - PANS092 - probably where my spare dial is from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphe Posted September 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 What? Removing the metal indices? Yikes, be careful they may not just be glued on but may be attached using 'feet'. My advice would be to leave well alone dial-wise, I mean the lack of AR and sunken crappy font datewheel is giveaway enough as it is BTW, mine was from Eddie, but the Honpo version used the same dial I believe. Nah. Was thinking more of getting a relume job. So there are other giveaways... Skinny date font. No AR. I think I'd take your advice. Leave it alone for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysis Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Nah. Was thinking more of getting a relume job. So there are other giveaways... Skinny date font. No AR. I think I'd take your advice. Leave it alone for now. Unfortunately, the biggest giveaway is the recessed datewheel, which is usually the easy tell for most Panerai chronograph reps. In addition, the 187 has tritium, not luminova, markers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 IMHO, this is the stock $250 version with new Asian 7750 movement and you got a good price. Bezel Markers are more rounded than Honpo (better) and glued not screwed (bad). On the silver surrounds on the dial markers, don't remove them. Paint them black. The gen has Tritium reservoirs - just black. The blue 1000 on the dial looks good though. Raised He on the valve is the giveaway and less accurate bezel. And no neither the dial nor the case are the same on the Honpo versus the next generation. I have been plugging away on modding this one for a long time. I have the dial for the 7753 version on the way with the objective of mounting a 7753 movement in the Honpo case. This should be as good as a rep gets. Unfortunately I will have close to $1,000 into by the time I am done so I would have to say you are smarter than me. Wear it as is. Perhaps relume if the lume is not yellowish tritium color. Otherwise just wear it and enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Great review and great comments. Thanks to seraphe and everyone who replied. Now the whole board (I especially) got much a better knowledge and insight about this model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphe Posted September 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 I just found out something about this 187. You're right the markers are not screwed. But they're not glued either. In fact, they're welded onto the bezel. Or at least this was what I see on the marker "1" on th 15. Maybe this one dropped out and they weld it back? Can't really tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 These 187's get weirder and weirder. I don't know how you clean that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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