Viennawatch Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) Does the second hand on the PO with ETA movement sweep very smoothly or does it seem as if there are 3 ticks followed by 3 ticks, etc.? Maybe its just my eyes, but it feels like that my 2 year old Sub is much smoother... I may try the tape removal method to see if its an ETA... I guess this post should be directed to those who bought their POs SPECIFICALLY from Precious Time as mine is from him as well. I wish I could take pictures of the watch, unfortunately, no cam available.. Regards, VW Edited November 1, 2007 by Viennawatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viennawatch Posted November 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) Well I just received an update from our good friend PT. The movement is indeed ETA. The reason why its not as smooth as that of my Sub is because there is a variation of smoothness in sweeps between the ETA movements. The PO I have or that PT sells, have the ETA 2824 movement which is not as smooth as that of an ETA 2836-2 movement which my 2.5 years old Sub has. PT confirmed by taking a look at the movement of his batch of POs which mine stems from... So I'm quit relieved! Edited November 1, 2007 by Viennawatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veja74 Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Well I just received an update from our good friend PT. The movement is indeed ETA. The reason why its not as smooth as that of my Sub is because there is a variation of smoothness in sweeps between the ETA movements. The PO I have or that PT sells, have the ETA 2824 movement which is not as smooth as that of an ETA 2836-2 movement which my 2.5 years old Sub has. PT confirmed by taking a look at the movement of his batch of POs which mine stems from... So I'm quit relieved! The PO is also not going to be as smooth as some other watches because it uses a 25K BPH rate while the SMP for example uses a 28K BPH rate. I held a PO and an SMP next to eachother at an AD and the PO was definitely not as smooth due to the lower beat rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce79 Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 This timing of this thread is impeccable. I have been eying the slow beat movement of my PO for a while now and just 2 minutes ago finally put it to my ear with my ETA sub to my other ear and determined the UPO was definitely slower. I just sat down to do some research on this very subject and this thread was at the top of the Omega section...my UPO is from Precious Time too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viennawatch Posted November 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 This timing of this thread is impeccable. I have been eying the slow beat movement of my PO for a while now and just 2 minutes ago finally put it to my ear with my ETA sub to my other ear and determined the UPO was definitely slower. I just sat down to do some research on this very subject and this thread was at the top of the Omega section...my UPO is from Precious Time too. Haha, nice timing eh? Glad this helped somewhat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azerbyjam Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 The PO is also not going to be as smooth as some other watches because it uses a 25K BPH rate while the SMP for example uses a 28K BPH rate. I held a PO and an SMP next to eachother at an AD and the PO was definitely not as smooth due to the lower beat rate. Well this refers to the beat rate of the 2500c calibre used in the genuine watch, 25200 beats per hour (7 ticks per second). I have had two UPO's, one with an ETA 2824 and one with a Selita SW200 and both had a beat rate of 28800bph (8 ticks per second) and the sweep looked identical as you would expect. As far as I know and I don't claim to be an expert on this, both the 2824 and the 2836 have a beat rate of 28800 and should therefore sweep the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Well I just received an update from our good friend PT. The movement is indeed ETA. The reason why its not as smooth as that of my Sub is because there is a variation of smoothness in sweeps between the ETA movements. The PO I have or that PT sells, have the ETA 2824 movement which is not as smooth as that of an ETA 2836-2 movement which my 2.5 years old Sub has. PT confirmed by taking a look at the movement of his batch of POs which mine stems from... So I'm quit relieved! I would not be relieved at all...your being mislead, maybe not intentionally, but mislead for sure. The ETA 2824 and 2836 are IDENTICAL movements, the only difference is that one has a day/date, and the other has date only. They have the identical gears, balance, escape wheel, etc, all identical parts, therefore there is no difference between the sweep of a 28XX series movement, all beat at 28.8K, and all tick the same. Certainly an ETA 28XX doesn't tick 3 times, stop and tick another 3 times, but some asian movements do...especially the indirect center seconds models. You may have a copy movement beating at 21,600 or something else...best to open the case back and see what's inside. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viennawatch Posted November 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 (edited) Hmm thanks for the clarification The Zigmeister... Well, honestly, I'm not entirely sure about the 3 ticks, but it just seems that there are 3 or 4 ticks between each second. Maybe thats just a trick of the eye.. I don't think I'm being mislead intentionally, PT himself mentioned that the movements of all the PO he's ordered as recent as September all have this kind of movement. I believe PT is quite the gentleman and an established/honest dealer and if he says it is a 2824, then it should be. Erm actually I'd like to clarify that he said its a 2824-2 movement, but I doubt it should make much of a difference? However without opening the case back, we'll never be entirely sure and thats the problem actually. I'd LOVE to get the back open, I've tried every method, such as the rubber glove, tape method. That thing is sealed tight and I believe I won't get it open unless I've got the correct tool for it! Plus when I hold the watch in my hand and wind it by shaking it, I can hear the rotor spin louder than that on my Sub. Is it possible the sweep may not seem as smooth due to the PO having a longer center second hand than that of the sub? [censored], this is all to worrying... Edited November 2, 2007 by Viennawatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Is it possible the sweep may not seem as smooth due to the PO having a longer center second hand than that of the sub? Short answer - probably not, the hands are not that much longer so I doubt it would be very noticeable. I don't doubt that PT is an honest dealer, but you and I have been around long enough to know that what you think (or the dealers think) is the movement in the watch, can vary. I have seen it all, from asian copies of ETA's, to Sellita SW200's, to Asian movements... Only by opening the back will you know for sure what movement you have. It could also be that the beat is out on the movement (common problem) and this is causing the hesitation you see, or the movement could be dirty, the escape and pallets gummed up, etc... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mentalist Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Funnily enough, my 2824-2 inside my UPO from Andrew has a smoother sweep than my ETA Noobmariner with the 2836. Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce79 Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Well this is all too interesting. I noticed on the first UPO I received from PT that the sweep was considerably slower than that of my sub & Tissot seastar. That one had a cosmetic defect so I returned it for a replacement which just arrived last week and the same slower sweeping second hand is evident on this UPO as well. The sweep is considerably slower, just by looking at it I'd say closer to 21.6k than 25.2k or 28.8k. I will do my best to get the case back open and get pictures posted here. Hopefully The Zigmeister can take a look and tell us what he thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viennawatch Posted November 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Thanks for the input bruce79. PT did say that all his latest POs ordered from China have this specific movement rate, which he said was the 2824-2... The movement may not actually be bad in terms of reliability, its just slower... Thats somewhat annoying. You can probably mod this watch up to wazoo, but one will still notice its a rep due to the sweep... Of course you can get the movement replaced, but then again whats the point of that, it would be easier getting a whole new watch.... Sigh..... Is there anything that can be done to modify this movement to get a better sweep, supposing its not dirty or the escape and pallets are not gummed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viennawatch Posted November 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 I've just sent PT another email, asking him to check the sweeps on a few POs, if he has some available. If this sweep is consistent with all his POs, could it be possible that its a manufacturing flaw or that they changed something in the movement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce79 Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 I just popped the case back on my UPO and the movement appears to be stamped ETA 2842 which would explain the slow beat. It's my understanding that the ETA 2842 runs at 21600 vph. Though the 2842 is an decent movement, I'm a bit disappointed that it's in my UPO. Some how it doesn't seem so Ultimate anymore. I was under the impression it was going to come with the 2824 running at 28800k and it's now apparent that wasn't the case. I'll get pics posted as soon as my camera finishes charging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viennawatch Posted November 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 That explains the mix up... PT thought it was 2842 when it really is a 2824... A mix up between the numbers... Damn that sucks a lot. Is there anyway to transplant the 2836 from the sub to the PO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 The Eta 2824 runs at 28800 and always has, here is the first version the second version the third version and what we get now the ETA 2824/2 and if you look at the interchangeability chart in this document you will find that so do 2801 to 2836 because of the interchangeabilty of the parts. If you have a jump in the seconds hand it proberbly need a service and a clean and regulation like Ziggy said. But if you have a 2842 in there then that is an issue to take up with the dealer, most definatly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce79 Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 I think we're establishing that our UPOs don't have the 2824 but in fact have the 2842. The pause that Vienna thought he saw was probably just the 21600 or 6 beats/second playing tricks on the eyes...The sweep is rather rough on my UPO and doesn't appear to be consistent though it probably is more so than I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 I cant speak for UPOs but silix customers have 2836s in the good silix one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 I have just had a look round all the normal trading sites and all the UPOs with there backs of are showing a 2824/36 type movement and no one shows a 2842. TJ, Slay take it away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Well then it all makes sense now... If it's a 2842, it is 21.6K beat. A 2842 measures 5.2mm thick, a 2836-2 is 5.05mm and a 2824-2 is 4.8mm thick. So I would say your best option for an upgrade is a 2836-2. But, is it worth it? The 2842 is a Swatch exclusive movement, and if the dealers are installing these, it only confirms once again that we are at the mercy of the surplus market, and it seems as if the ETA's were used to having, are running out... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viennawatch Posted November 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Well I've sent PT an email and copied the link to this post for him. Either way, since i just made the purchase. I'm going to see if he can get me one with a 2824-2, otherwise I want me euros back... I don't want to have to end up buying a new movement on top of all the mods! I'm even willing to send it back to him at my costs so that he can open it up and have it compared with his supply of POs... I just ordered a watch opener, i might get it Monday or Tuesday and I can verify myself, otherwise I'm sending it back to PT. I don't blame PT however. I guess a big BIG BIG misunderstanding... I'm not [censored] at all though, in fact, I am very very sad... Heh, in fact it got me in the heart as if I were just dumped by my girlfriend. Is this what has become of us watch fanatics, dependent on having everything correct?! Well not necessarily everything, but the sweep, DEFINITELY!!!!!! Regards, VW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce79 Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 (edited) Here are some pics...click to enlarge Edited November 2, 2007 by bruce79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 On a good isde it gives us some 21600 reiable movements for vintage rollys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Thanks for the pictures fxrandy. @VW Don't misunderstand, there is nothing wrong with this movemnet, it's not a cheap quality ETA anymore than a 2836 is a cheap ETA. But it's not a 28.8k model, or what you were expecting to buy. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Pictures Ziggy, Oh you mean the ones in the link? here is a link to the 2842 for any one interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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