maxmsu Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Got my crystal today! Thanks a lot for organizing this and going thru all the troubles... however, I think I ruined the coating somehow... anyways, please be careful when cleaning coated crystals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkpadget2 Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 I couldn't find the link to the status page... can someone help me out? Thanks PM sent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosk Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 PM sent... I got my crystals today. All crystals installed. One crystal got scratched as I was cleaning with my lens cloth (light swirly marks). This did not occur the other 3 that I cleaned. The crystals do seem to disappear on all 4 watches. Finger prints definitely a problem. Overall....I'm satisfied. Pics will follow once I get a chance. bosk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 I got my crystals today. All crystals installed. One crystal got scratched as I was cleaning with my lens cloth (light swirly marks). This did not occur the other 3 that I cleaned. The crystals do seem to disappear on all 4 watches. Finger prints definitely a problem. Overall....I'm satisfied. Pics will follow once I get a chance. bosk Bosk, glad to hear you're happy. On the scratch.... how did this happen? This coating does not scratch with a lens cloth... or any other cloth for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosk Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Bosk, glad to hear you're happy. On the scratch.... how did this happen? This coating does not scratch with a lens cloth... or any other cloth for that matter. The crystals seemed slightly sticky (very slight....maybe its just the negative polarity of the sapphire) and there were dust flecks on them. air would not blow them off. So I attempted to wipe it with the lens cloth. A bunch of tiny swirlies appeared...front and back. The coating is not sratched all the way thru.....probably just the top layer. I'm not bothered since i know the lens will probaby eventually look that way regardless from everyday wear. Perhaps from rubbing of the dust particles on the lens. I washed my other crystals with soap and water and then dried them and wiped again with the lens cloth....that slight stickiness went away and the crystals are fine without scratches. -bosk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 The crystals seemed slightly sticky (very slight....maybe its just the negative polarity of the sapphire) and there were dust flecks on them. air would not blow them off. So I attempted to wipe it with the lens cloth. A bunch of tiny swirlies appeared...front and back. The coating is not sratched all the way thru.....probably just the top layer. I'm not bothered since i know the lens will probaby eventually look that way regardless from everyday wear. Perhaps from rubbing of the dust particles on the lens. I washed my other crystals with soap and water and then dried them and wiped again with the lens cloth....that slight stickiness went away and the crystals are fine without scratches. -bosk Those swirls should go away when cleaned. I clean my own AR coated crystals with spit and a T shirt most of the time and have never had a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmsu Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 See pictures added... should I remove it and wash it with soup?? I tried Lens Cleaner spray... it didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Got my crystal today! Thanks a lot for organizing this and going thru all the troubles... Now that you've posted pics, I'd have to say that crystal looks permanently ruined. Those scratches look to be deep, and not merely surface swirl marks. And, honestly, I can't understand how you could have done that without realizing it. In fact, out of 200 or so crystals that I've coated now, this is the first time I've seen one ruined like this. The fact is that this coating is very durable. You can touch it, and clean it with relative ease. In technical terms, this coating meets US Military Specification MIL-C-675 for durability. MIL-C-675 specifies that the coating will not show degradation to the naked eye after 20 strokes with a rubber pumice eraser. MIL-C-675 coatings can be cleaned repeatedly and survive moderate to severe handling. They will not, however, resist scratches in the same way as uncoated sapphire. If you do not use common sense when cleaning the coated crystal, you CAN scratch the coating. Your crystal looks to have been rubbed on or with an abrasive material. As for my own coated crystals, I routinely wipe them off with spit and a T shirt. I've been doing this for months and have no scratches to speak of. Now with all that said, if you are able to strip the damaged coating and would like to resubmit it for re-coating I'll send it off in the current round due to ship in two weeks at no charge. At the very least, I would like to see the damaged crystal in person to make a better evaluation. Let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmsu Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 damn... I can't understand it either... I did NOT rub it with anything but a super fine microfiber cloth... and please tell me what is "COmmon sense when cleaning coated crystal"? The outer coating seemed to be perfect fine after the same treatment (same cloth and cleaning motion)... so... should I send you the coated crystal or should I try to strip the coating? or should I just forget about it? ... I guess somehow I ruined the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosk Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Ok, let's not cause a frenzy! Now that you've posted pics, I'd have to say that crystal looks permanently ruined. Those scratches look to be deep, and not merely surface swirl marks. And, honestly, I can't understand how you could have done that without realizing it. In fact, out of 200 or so crystals that I've coated now, this is the first time I've seen one ruined like this. The fact is that this coating is very durable. You can touch it, and clean it with relative ease. In technical terms, this coating meets US Military Specification MIL-C-675 for durability. MIL-C-675 specifies that the coating will not show degradation to the naked eye after 20 strokes with a rubber pumice eraser. MIL-C-675 coatings can be cleaned repeatedly and survive moderate to severe handling. They will not, however, resist scratches in the same way as uncoated sapphire. If you do not use common sense when cleaning the coated crystal, you CAN scratch the coating. Your crystal looks to have been rubbed on or with an abrasive material. As for my own coated crystals, I routinely wipe them off with spit and a T shirt. I've been doing this for months and have no scratches to speak of. Now with all that said, if you are able to strip the damaged coating and would like to resubmit it for re-coating I'll send it off in the current round due to ship in two weeks at no charge. At the very least, I would like to see the damaged crystal in person to make a better evaluation. Let me know. Here are my scratched AR pics...no amount of cleaning removed the scratches: Scratches are not evident at certain angles. AR coated Saint Exp. in the background look great but the silver subdials are still quite shiny....that brown dial looks AWESOME with double AR But the other crystals came out great. Note that my other three crystals are very thin and the PO crystal was 3-5mm thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmsu Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Mine just like your PO's crystal... still wondered how that could happen.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosk Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Mine just like your PO's crystal... still wondered how that could happen.... wild guess but maybe the heat retention of the thicker crystal affected the AR coating process? -bosk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 The thickness of the crystal really shouldn't matter. I have coated much thicker PAM crystals with no issues. That Saint Exp. looks really nice, BTW. I will talk to the coater about the issue. Based on what you're saying and the fact that it's more than one crystal, I'm suspecting it is a crazing in the coating rather than anything you've done. And I've never seen it happen before. Let's see what kind of feedback I can get from the coater, but both of you are welcome to try stripping the damaged coating and resubmit those crystals for no charge. Please see the status page for the dates of the new run. I'll also ask the coating company about any potential remedy, so hold off on trying to strip it for now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Update: The coating company has never seen this condition. Here is a direct quote (I sent him bosk's picture): "I have looked at the picture you sent and I have never seen that condition before. I have no idea what is going on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosk Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Update: The coating company has never seen this condition. Here is a direct quote (I sent him bosk's picture): "I have looked at the picture you sent and I have never seen that condition before. I have no idea what is going on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmsu Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Thank you for helping us out. The "crazing" appeared to be only on one side in my case... I assume that both side's coatings need to be removed right? I will be sending in one more for the current run (total 2) Probably you will be getting them end of next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosk Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 Thank you for helping us out. The "crazing" appeared to be only on one side in my case... I assume that both side's coatings need to be removed right? I will be sending in one more for the current run (total 2) Probably you will be getting them end of next week. Crazing was only on the top layer. I've already stripped mine....an easy 3 min I'd like to add a new crystal too from a different watch (so a total of two). thanks bosk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 Crazing was only on the top layer. I've already stripped mine....an easy 3 min I'd like to add a new crystal too from a different watch (so a total of two). thanks bosk Go ahead and send two with payment for only one, then. I'll add crystal numbers for you to the run 6 status page, and you can follow the usual protocol. 3 minutes is a new record. What stripping method did you use? And just to be clear, you should strip both sides - the uncrazed side also. We'll recoat both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 This is very interesting. I have treated my AR coated crystals fairly poorly (whacked them against a wall, etc - by accident of course) and the coating has remained fully intact. Even after all of Chief's warnings on the single coated process I tried that and it was pretty resilient. Good to see that the solution is at hand. I would like to know what process takes off AR coat in a few minutes. Every time I have done it it is laborious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmsu Posted November 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 I stripped the coatings last night along with an existing single sided 3717 crystal for double coating... It took me a lot longer to remove the single side coating on 3717's crystal vs. chieftang's (only 5 mins), not sure why though. I think thats what bosk meant. sending in 2 crystals tomorrow. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosk Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 I stripped the coatings last night along with an existing single sided 3717 crystal for double coating... It took me a lot longer to remove the single side coating on 3717's crystal vs. chieftang's (only 5 mins), not sure why though. I think thats what bosk meant. sending in 2 crystals tomorrow. Thanks Rouge polish and dermel....its less than a min on each side. I let the crystal cool a bit before handling. Speed was due to my previous experience of stripping 4 crystals from the last run and knowing exactly what to do. I think factory rep AR's are harder to strip but they do not provide strong AR properties/effectiveness. But maybe its just due to my gained experience at this point. I will send mine on Monday. thanks Chief! -bosk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertieng Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Got the crytsal back. Overall effect is great except the lip marks are quite signifcant on the rim. It measures 2mm wide , and there are brown marker paints on it not even removable by white spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Got the crytsal back. Overall effect is great except the lip marks are quite signifcant on the rim. It measures 2mm wide , and there are brown marker paints on it not even removable by white spirit. The brown marker is removable easily with nail polish remover and a Q tip. These are applied by the coater and used to sort the crystals. As for the lips, they're 0.7mm deep and width will depend on the size of the crystal. You'll notice that when on the watch, they rarely catch your attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar0401 Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Got my crystal today! Thanks a lot for organizing this and going thru all the troubles... however, I think I ruined the coating somehow... anyways, please be careful when cleaning coated crystals. I got my two crystals a couple of days ago, overall those are my 4th and 5th from Chieftang, and I must say that the quality even slightly improved with time. I had my Ingy crrystal done in the run 1, and now Ingy Chrono in the run 5, and the crystal "disappearance" effect is even more profound now. Besides, the lip size apparently got smaller. Thanks, Chief! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 A.R., thanks for the feedback. The coating quality has actually not changed. What's likely to be the case is that your new crystal was a better quality sapphire than your previous one. The higher the index of refraction of the substrate, the better the coating is at inhibiting reflections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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