jeff212 Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Kind of debating and looking for the cleanest and most accurate watch in Panerai. I've came across this watch, let me know what you think and if you can tell its' fake? If so, who offers the best and what model is the most accurate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaguy88 Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Actually you've made a very nice first choice. I'm glad to see you've steered clear of the "h" series dials, as I've always found them to be hopelessly inaccurate. The most obvious flaws with this watch is probably the crown (didn't get really good look at it here, but I'm just assuming its bad cuz its a standard rep crown) and the yellow lume. The crown guard pin could be sanded flat as well. Dont let this discourage you though, the 111g is a great watch with huge potential to be extraordinarily accurate. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaguy88 Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 I forgot to mention the infamous cannon pin problem will need to be fixed as well if youre going for absolute accuracy. However, I know that some of the newer asian movement pams already come with a correct cannon pin, so you might want to ask around and buy a watch that doesn't have this problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Dont forget the shape of the adjusting arm is wrong as that is a standard ETA type shape anf the Pam should have a roman sword shaped one, also the adjusting screw on the swans neck is to short to make any meaningfull adustment in the minus direction, but the movement engraving looks fantastic on that. A very nice watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff212 Posted November 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 I forgot to mention the infamous cannon pin problem will need to be fixed as well if youre going for absolute accuracy. However, I know that some of the newer asian movement pams already come with a correct cannon pin, so you might want to ask around and buy a watch that doesn't have this problem... What is the canon pin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 The canon pin the the pin that the Min hand sits on, on a gen it is flush with the top of the hand, on the handwind reps it is very oftern recessed, it can be replaced quite easily if you have a bit of watch smithing talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Actually you've made a very nice first choice. I'm glad to see you've steered clear of the "h" series dials, as I've always found them to be hopelessly inaccurate. I compared my 111h with a gen last weekend and didn't see a single difference with the dial. The finish on the movement isn't terribly accurate, but then what rep movement is? Judge for yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs1971 Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 I compared my 111h with a gen last weekend and didn't see a single difference with the dial. The finish on the movement isn't terribly accurate, but then what rep movement is? Just to name a few dial flaws you probably have overlooked - the font should be yellowish off white instead of clear white - Luminor Marina is too big - L SWISS MADE L is positioned too close to the 6 - the bar of the 'A's are too low - the shape of the 3, 6 and 9 are different But then again this rep is still a very nice watch by itself @jeff212: you might consider the E-series PAM111 of Angus (Pure Time), which is considered to be the most accurate PAM111 out of the box at this moment. It has the bigger crown, the cannon pinion is not recessed, the sausage dias has filled indices instead of the painted sausage dial of the other dealers, the L Swiss L is better positioned and the decoration of the movement and shape of the regulator arm are pretty accurate. On top of it Angus is nice to do business with. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Just to name a few dial flaws you probably have overlooked - the font should be yellowish off white instead of clear white Marginal and overrated complaint - Luminor Marina is too big Impossible to tell - L SWISS MADE L is positioned too close to the 6 Not on my watch - the bar of the 'A's are too low Marginal complaint at best - the shape of the 3, 6 and 9 are different 3 is perfect, 6 might be a little slim, there is no 9 scoobs????? There isn't an AD in the world that could tell my watch is a rep if it remained on my wrist, but then again I have a pretty special watch that was sourced by TTK in very small numbers some time ago (not by me--just ask Star) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Just to name a few dial flaws you probably have overlooked - the font should be yellowish off white instead of clear white Marginal and overrated complaint - Luminor Marina is too big Impossible to tell - L SWISS MADE L is positioned too close to the 6 Not on my watch - the bar of the 'A's are too low Marginal complaint at best - the shape of the 3, 6 and 9 are different 3 is perfect, 6 might be a little slim, there is no 9 scoobs????? There isn't an AD in the world that could tell my watch is a rep if it remained on my wrist, but then again I have a pretty special watch that was sourced by TTK in very small numbers some time ago (not by me--just ask Star) The bright white dial print is not a marginal complaint. Very in your face. Luminor Marina too big: never noticed. L SWISS MADE L: could we see a pic of yours? I've never seen one that was correctly spaced. Bars too low an A's: I agree. Marginal. Shape of 6 is off as is the 2. No clue where the 9 comes from. The biggest flaw on the H reps, though, is the obviously non-H style CG. And unfortunately, anyone can spot that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I put my watch next to an H series gen on Saturday. There was no difference in the spacing of LSwissMadeL. I saw little difference in the font color under bright office lights. Here is the best gen pics I could find for your reference. I don't see any difference between my CG and the gen. I serious could not tell my watch from the gen. Mine (you can get a BIG) pic by clicking and going to my photo album) Gen Not to beat a dead horse, but I think the H series is very accurate. Cutting a template from the gen sandwich dial is very easy to do. Painting a sausage dial is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket754 Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I am just not seeing these huge flaws between the two watches here? I think someone would have to take thier watch to the AD and have them look it over for anyone to really draw attention to the flaws. The biggest flaw to me has always been the finish on the movements. Everytime I look at the finish on the gen and compare it to the rep it's a large difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I am just not seeing these huge flaws between the two watches here? I think someone would have to take thier watch to the AD and have them look it over for anyone to really draw attention to the flaws. The biggest flaw to me has always been the finish on the movements. Everytime I look at the finish on the gen and compare it to the rep it's a large difference. I agree. I wish the 111h wasn't a display back. No comparison in the finish of the movement between a gen and a rep. Give me a 005 with a sandwich dial and I'm happy. With the inconsistency of crown guards on pams from series to series, most ADs wouldn't have a clue about them. The CG on mine was VERY close to that of the gen. Anyone have a modded Pam 10D they are looking to sell??? I think that will be my next purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsmith11 Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Hey guys sorry to interrupt the experts but what does CG stand for?? From my view these watches are very very close and not sure anyone other than a AD could tell. This is defenitely on my radar this 111h series watch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket754 Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 CG = crown guard to the casual viewer these differences would never be noticed but to the obssessed such as us it would be pointed out in record time. So how is puretimes ultimate 111H ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I'd normally agree about the CG difference, EXCEPT when it comes to H and beyond CGs. One look from the side on the gen tells the tale. There is no rep with a thick CG that has a centered lever as on the H's. Not to my knowledge, anyhow. As to the L SWISS MADE L spacing, I think its the size of the rep lettering (too large) that makes the spacing look off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaguy88 Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 @ esteban, a very nice 111 you have indeed, but like you said, yours is an exception from the norm. Most 111h models do suffer from some easy to identify dial flaws. I'll still say the g series is your best bet.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911RS Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 The L Swiss Made L is "better" but is still too close to the 6. It's also too long/big (Whatever you want to call it)... It screams rep. Better than the norm I'd agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff212 Posted November 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 (edited) What do you think of this one compared to the first post? Is swiss version of the movement worth the extra 80 dollars? What's the difference between swiss and asian unitas movement? I'm looking for as closest to the real thing as possible. Let me know where you see the flaws guys! Edited November 21, 2007 by jeff212 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Jeff, the last one you posted looks pretty good. Who is the dealer? I know the first one is walmart aka pam111 & a dozen other aka's, The 111 is a classic and a great first choice. Good to see someone doing their homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs1971 Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 - the font should be yellowish off white instead of clear white Marginal and overrated complaint I don't agree. It's easy to spot from a distance - Luminor Marina is too big Impossible to tell If you do a 1:1 comparison you'll see that the Luminor Marina is a bit wider than the 11 and 01 thick mark. On the gen it's placed between it. - L SWISS MADE L is positioned too close to the 6 Not on my watch You are the exception to the rule. I've never seen a dial like yours. The standard 111h reps have the L SWISS MADE L very close to the 6. This is noticable for those who know. - the bar of the 'A's are too low Marginal complaint at best It is a difference, though. - the shape of the 3, 6 and 9 are different 3 is perfect, 6 might be a little slim, there is no 9 scoobs????? I'm sorry, I meant the shape of the '2', not the 9. In the archives there are a couple of posts by our PAMexperts describing the differences in shape The OP asked for accuracy. All the above points are flaws. However, in the end I don't think it really matters. Nobody but WIS will look at your watch and note these flaws. So if you like the watch for what it is, enjoy it. I do, I just ordered a 177h with the same flaws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I had at some time both genuine 112 and rep 112 and the BIGGEST flaw was the colour of the text.. It is a difference that even a non-wis could see.. The others are differences but minor ones that someone could overlook. The colour is a big one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Forgot to add that if you handle both watches to your hand there is no doubt which one is the rep and which one the genuine.. Does it worth the huge difference in price? That is another question completely different. The watches though are different and it is easy to say someone which one is the gen and which the rep. The detail in the finishing of the gen I have only see it in only one rep: The Ferrari range. All the other reps that have passed though my hands were.. reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I had at some time both genuine 112 and rep 112 and the BIGGEST flaw was the colour of the text.. Good thing mine doesn't have this problem. For those who do, I'm guessing it's a pretty easy mod to do. Had anyone done this mod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Good thing mine doesn't have this problem. For those who do, I'm guessing it's a pretty easy mod to do. Had anyone done this mod? If I remember correctly someone has used cigarette smoke to make it salmon/off-white instead of pure white. Or was it coffe and I don't remember? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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