Rudd takes Australia inside Kyoto

[piratedzeus]

What does exports per capita have to do with anything? Besides, Germany's population is declining, is it not? The USA's is increasing (for better or for worse). But, that aside, I can not think of any way that export dollars per capita is relevant to the discussion.

Oh and IMHO it is all about "per capita". Else you can never compare 2 countries..

[Victoria]

What does exports per capita have to do with anything? Besides, Germany's population is declining, is it not? The USA's is increasing (for better or for worse). But, that aside, I can not think of any way that export dollars per capita is relevant to the discussion.

That and the trade deficit are the only things people can point to, to beat the USA over the head with, "economically". Lowest unemployment rate in years, a healthy economy in the middle of a war, the housing bubble which has moved on to North Carolina, Tennessee, etc.

These are good times in the USA. But we're due for an end of decade correction, as ever. I don't pity whomever becomes the next president of this country.

Ahem, but back to Australia. Migration swells in Australia:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/migrat...6530678741.html

"AUSTRALIA'S population is growing at its fastest rate in nearly two decades, thanks to rising fertility rates and an immigration boom bigger than that during the aftermath of both world wars.

The number of Australians grew by 1.5 per cent, or 315,700 people, over the year to June 30, topping 21 million for the first time.

Australia now ranks above the world average for population growth of 1.2 per cent, and only just behind the rapidly expanding Indian population, which is growing by 1.6 per cent and expected to overtake China by 2050 as the most populous country."

People usually have more babies in good times, because they feel better about the world. Like the 80s in the USA.

[HauteHippie]

Export dollars per capita is not an economic indicator. Gross domestic product (which incorporates exports) is, and I've never looked at the numbers before this post, but the results are quite intuitive:

GDP Growth Rate

2002

Germany 0.4%

USA 2.45%

2003

Germany -0.1%

USA 3.1%

2004

Germany 1.7%

USA 4.4%

2005

Germany 0.9%

USA 3.2%

2006

Germany 2.2%

USA 3.4%

[piratedzeus]

Ryaanon you are right that many countries fail.

Anyway - you asked for ONE country ... well there are many!

And where is the BETTER way of the US? +15,8%?

Edited December 4, 2007 by piratedzeus

[ryyannon]

Ryaanon you are right that many countries fail.

Anyway - you asked for ONE country ... well there are many!

And where is the BETTER way of the US? +15,8%?

It all depends on who you read, how they interpret the stats and the spin they put on the criteria. It's no problem finding information which contradicts yours:

"Further complicating the debate over the Kyoto Protocol is the fact that CO2 emissions growth in the US was far ahead of that of the EU-15 from 1990-2000, but from 2000-2004, America's rate of growth in CO2 emissions was eight percentage points lower than from 1995-2000, while the EU-15 saw an increase of 2.3 points. From 2000-2004, the United States' CO2 emissions growth rate was 2.1%, compared to the EU-15's 4.5%. That happened while the US economy was expanding 38% faster than the economies of the EU-15 while experiencing population growth at twice the rate of the EU-15.[96] This naturally has led to questions and debate about the merits of a mandatory emissions cap approach (as currently adopted under Kyoto) versus a voluntary approach to emissions reduction (as adopted by the United States).

As of year-end 2006, the United Kingdom and Sweden were the only EU countries on pace to meet their Kyoto emissions commitments by 2010. While UN statistics indicate that, as a group, the 36 Kyoto signatory countries can meet the 5% reduction target by 2012, most of the progress in greenhouse gas reduction has come from the stark decline in Eastern European countries' emissions after the fall of communism in the 1990s."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol

I myself live in the EU, and from my ring-side seat, I can report that it's the greatest thing since the former Soviet Union....not. In many ways, it's even worse. Even Dani is happy (for once) that Norway didn't get involved with these losers....

As for any credibility in the reports coming Brussels or UN agencies (such as the above-cited unfccc report, lots of luck.... Has anyone outside of piratezeus actually looked at it? There are so many footnotes, subtexts, subclauses and asterics that you get the feeling that the 'information' it contains was obtained under torture.

If it looks like horsepoo and smells like horsepoo....

[Victoria]

If it looks like horsepoo and smells like horsepoo....

It must be the eey-ooo.

[HauteHippie]

And where is the BETTER way of the US? +15,8%?

The BETTER way is simply the refusal to sign Kyoto and not instituting any federal emissions reduction mandates. The fact of the matter is that new environmental laws DO have an economic impact. If they had no impact, companies would have nothing to lose from "going green" in the first place and the mandates wouldn't be needed, now would they. By the way, I see that Russian emissions are WAY down. Do you really think they made a concerted effort to reduce their emissions!?!? Don't think too hard. I see that Canada is WAY up. But I thought they were overwhelmingly liberal up there? And I see that Turkey is also WAY up, but they get "special circumstances" treatment which means they can ignore the standards that apply to the rich Western countries. Hilarious.

[HauteHippie]

Sorry maybe I got you wrong. I thought you said that countries that follow Kyoto will not be able to compete with the USA anymore? I think I got that wrong please clarify

How does the export per capita number from any given year indicate whether or not regulation is stunting economic growth? How does it show that exports are not declining year over year? And what if total exports are declining, but the population is declining faster therefore resulting an increase per capita? This number is meaningless. One must look at universal economic indicators to get an idea of relative economic vitality. Even GDP alone leaves questions unanswered... How do you measure the opportunity cost of Kyoto? I.e. economic growth lost because of the regulations? How do you measure export income lost due to rapidly changing exchange rates? Etc. The analysis must incorporate many variables and becomes quite complex. But one can say with certainty that a weakening dollar and Kyoto regulations do have a negative impact on the bottom line of a developed nation.