Frustration...

[Ztech]

If you are meaning a PAM 027 dial, be advised that it not so accurate*, and that the PAM 027 has a power reserve indicator that the 6497 movement does not have.

*Excellent print quality, but "flat" power reserve gauge instead of "sunken", and (minor and common flaw to all PAM reps) less-than-perfect "A"s in the text.

Doh!!!

Ok, so I was mistaken. So sssurfer, since you're an expert with this subject. Which PAM should I buy if I'm looking to build an ultimate PAM?

As you might have read, I've had nothing but failures so far. I purchased a PAM127 fiddy from another member, which I paid $450 for, and it's definitely got issues. Like the CG lever not flush and loose like some women I knew back in the day and scratches hands and a blemish on the dial. I've picked up a few items seperately...

1. PVD'd 44mm case with display back, saphire front crsytal (no AR)

2. 6497 movement. Purchased from Helenarou (ebay). I have no idea if this is Chinese, Swiss, etc. It's got a swan neck though

3. $200 worth of tools I have no idea what to do with.

I also picked up some various cases and parts, but I have no idea what I need to put together a "correct" rep. Please help.

[chad]

"100 perfect" to some members is different.

Look at DSN..... He strives to make higher end watches yet you can get one that has a crooked dial and send it back to him and he will say he cannot tell it is crooked.

The standards are just not there for 90 percent of the people heading up these "projects"

It is cultural to an extent. (Americans like myself are not much better when striving for perfection of details on a whole)

There is one thing here in NYC that makes me think of the rep game every time I see it.

China or the city of shanghai has taken out a series of ads for buses and street signs here in NYC. These are to promote cultural awareness about the city of shanghai. They feature a photo of the skyline with the eastern pearl building.

The photo is a grainy, blurry and looks absolutely terrible.(it is not "meant" to be this way either) One could find a photo 10x better with google in about 2 mins.

A group of people that could approve this photo and use it to promote a campaign that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars are probably much like the ones that cannot notice or care to fix a short cannon pin.

Yes, sometimes they are leaving room for future upgrade but 9 times out of 10 they just do not see it that way.

[sssurfer]

1. PVD'd 44mm case with display back, saphire front crsytal (no AR)

Argh. You went exactly on the hardest way. If you want a very accurate rep, both PVD and display back are a call for troubles.

What would you prefer, an advice about the best you can take out from what you have there, or hints to a pretty accurate PAM rep?

[Ztech]

Argh. You went exactly on the hardest way. If you want a very accurate rep, both PVD and display back are a call for troubles.

What would you prefer, an advice about the best you can take out from what you have there, or hints to a pretty accurate PAM rep?

First sssurfer, let me start by thanking you for taking time to impart some of your expertise with me. I really do appreciate it. Really.

Well, my goal is to create the "best" rep as I can possibly create. I'm prepared to throw out everything I've purchased so far to get it right. I'd rather wear something I'm proud of than something I'm not.

So fire away. I'm ready.

Oh, by the way, all this PAM talk has pretty much made to decide to go and get another gen as well.

[PAMman]

Argh. You went exactly on the hardest way. If you want a very accurate rep, both PVD and display back are a call for troubles.

What would you prefer, an advice about the best you can take out from what you have there, or hints to a pretty accurate PAM rep?

I have just posted the following on Ztech's new thread on the assumption that he wanted the simplest way to get the most accurate based on mainstream, readily available rep parts. Nearly all Panerai reps have dial issues so I favour the one with the least occurrances. I also favour unmodified Swiss movements so I'm narrowing the field but I'm ending up where many Paneristi want to be.

"I suppose that the best start is to get any gen parts that you can, then whichever Jimmy Fu parts you can find, a Palp crown if you haven't got a gen and add a Swiss 6497 behind a solid caseback. However, you may find the gen / JF / Palp bits very costly and difficult to source so then you are talking about normal rep parts. There is little difference between one rep SS case and the next - they are all pretty good and can be upgraded with the gen / JF bits later if they turn up. In my experience most rep hands are the same and they are OK. If you are going for a solid back watch the regular CG is correct only for the A - D series so that rules out the 000 & 005. The rep 001 / 111 or 002 / 112 dials are reasonably accurate except for the droopy As. That helps me to favour the 002 as there are only half as many incorrect As on it.

If you are going down this route you should find a dealer who can supply a 002B, get the best crown you can find and enjoy it. A relume may be nice but if you have lights in your house it's really not necessary. A standard 002B with a Palp crown is pretty good. The Palp crown will tighten any looseness in the CG lever when it's closed so will give you an opportunity to fine tune the standard CG."

[Ztech]

I have just posted the following on Ztech's new thread on the assumption that he wanted the simplest way to get the most accurate based on mainstream, readily available rep parts. Nearly all Panerai reps have dial issues so I favour the one with the least occurrances. I also favour unmodified Swiss movements so I'm narrowing the field but I'm ending up where many Paneristi want to be.

"I suppose that the best start is to get any gen parts that you can, then whichever Jimmy Fu parts you can find, a Palp crown if you haven't got a gen and add a Swiss 6497 behind a solid caseback. However, you may find the gen / JF / Palp bits very costly and difficult to source so then you are talking about normal rep parts. There is little difference between one rep SS case and the next - they are all pretty good and can be upgraded with the gen / JF bits later if they turn up. In my experience most rep hands are the same and they are OK. If you are going for a solid back watch the regular CG is correct only for the A - D series so that rules out the 000 & 005. The rep 001 / 111 or 002 / 112 dials are reasonably accurate except for the droopy As. That helps me to favour the 002 as there are only half as many incorrect As on it.

If you are going down this route you should find a dealer who can supply a 002B, get the best crown you can find and enjoy it. A relume may be nice but if you have lights in your house it's really not necessary. A standard 002B with a Palp crown is pretty good. The Palp crown will tighten any looseness in the CG lever when it's closed so will give you an opportunity to fine tune the standard CG."

To you too PAMman. A sincere, thank you! You guys have been a great help. Now I think I know where to go and how to get it done. I think I'm going to DavidSen or Angus for a PAM002B, if either have them. By the way, what's the B designate? Thanks again to all of you who've contributed.

[Corgi]

Don't worry... everyone goes through rep hysterics at least one time in this hobby.

I remember when the hands on my Rolex misaligned; rendering the watch permanently unwearable. I had a delirium for about one day, was cranky for about one week, declared that I will never buy a replica watch ever again and the next week got myself a new watch and all was calm at sea again.

It comes... but it also passes. Don't give up, but watch what you spend. Anything more than $500 is obscene. If you're going to spend that much, you might as well get a gen. Have fun, buy different watches from QC inspection dealers, and mix it up. Don't take it too seriously or your head will explode like the people on that movie "Signal 30"...

[Ztech]

Don't worry... everyone goes through rep hysterics at least one time in this hobby.

I remember when the hands on my Rolex misaligned; rendering the watch permanently unwearable. I had a delirium for about one day, was cranky for about one week, declared that I will never buy a replica watch ever again and the next week got myself a new watch and all was calm at sea again.

It comes... but it also passes. Don't give up, but watch what you spend. Anything more than $500 is obscene. If you're going to spend that much, you might as well get a gen. Have fun, buy different watches from QC inspection dealers, and mix it up. Don't take it too seriously or your head will explode like the people on that movie "Signal 30"...

Thanks Corgi for the encouragement and the advice. I guess I need to take a big step back and not approach this hobby like I do in the gen world. Things are so much more clear cut over there.

I'm gonna take this weekend to think it over, but I'm sort of playing with an idea. Just an idea mind you, but I have a good buddy who's in the metal business. Well, it's a lot bigger than, just a business. He's got a company with a 200 sq. ft. facility that works in metal fabrication. I'm toying with the idea of giving him some specs on a case, just the case, CG and crown to see if he can't reproduce a 1:1 copy of a 44mm case. If seems that there are close enough dials/hands/movements/etc. out there now so all we'd need is a "good" case. Hmm....

[Pugwash]

I'm toying with the idea of giving him some specs on a case, just the case, CG and crown to see if he can't reproduce a 1:1 copy of a 44mm case. If seems that there are close enough dials/hands/movements/etc. out there now so all we'd need is a "good" case. Hmm....

...and then you'll see how hard it is.

You can't get 1:1 without an original part to copy. I guarantee you this.

[Ztech]

...and then you'll see how hard it is.

You can't get 1:1 without an original part to copy. I guarantee you this.

Oh yeah, that's for certain. I could either 1. buy a gen like I'm pretty much planning to and 2. get a hold of a gen that we can get measurements on. I wouldn't dream about doing this without a gen. I'm guessing that the reason so many reps are bad is because they keep rep'n a rep.

[PAMman]

To you too PAMman. A sincere, thank you! You guys have been a great help. Now I think I know where to go and how to get it done. I think I'm going to DavidSen or Angus for a PAM002B, if either have them. By the way, what's the B designate? Thanks again to all of you who've contributed.

DSN uses a different case from the normal reps and therefore many parts are not interchangable e.g. his dials are a different size and CGs can't be swapped. Normal reps accept Jimmy Fu parts, Palp crowns and gen dials but DSN's won't.

[Ztech]

DSN uses a different case from the normal reps and therefore many parts are not interchangable e.g. his dials are a different size and CGs can't be swapped. Normal reps accept Jimmy Fu parts, Palp crowns and gen dials but DSN's won't.

Wait, just to clarify... Does DSN = DavidSen?

So basically, I should stay away from DSN's PAM's then? I mean I wouldn't want to be stuck with a watch that won't accept any other part.