Dani Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Since its Christmas time and alot of us are stressing i like to post some of my recent watches to calm some down and make some even more stressed out This is my VDB custom made Lehmann Rad. whit a 616cal rolex movement the 616 is not working at the moment so no use in the holidays but soon to be fixed....At least i can look at it whit my own eyes and know it will be fixed in the new year.. Enjoy the photos. Cheers, Dani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
projectologist Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Great pics... my first VDB creation just arrived in country and hopefully will make it here by Wed. Your post has raised my anticipation to another level. Thanks Dani. I see your 28 peeking around the corner... nice lume. Robert in SoCal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 What a beauty Dani... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 She's a beaut, mate! cheers, babola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 D, you are showing some great pieces today!!! really lovely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paralizer Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 look how thick that crystal is. HOT! great piece Dani! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 not a real rolex 616 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted December 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 not a real rolex 616 though pleas enlighten us whit your deep knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDBroucke Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 this is 100% a cortebert/Rolex 616 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 (edited) pleas enlighten us whit your deep knowledge. No deep knowledge needed, your dog could probably answer that one. Its a Cortebert, not a Rolex. IMO there is a difference, a huge difference in price, to say the least. Otherwise, we could start calling Moljina movements Rolex aswell.... you see where this is going? Edited December 24, 2008 by slay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDBroucke Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 all ``rolex``16lines movements is a cortebert rolex have buy from cortebert the movts and refinish this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 Beautiful Dani ....great work from the Master VDB as usual! You spoil us these holidays with finest PAM's!! Cheers FGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 can it be that VDB is the reincarnation of guido panerai??? great watch, great work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 (edited) all ``rolex``16lines movements is a cortebert rolex have buy from cortebert the movts and refinish this but it's a different movemnt, wouldnt you say? Rolex also uses Zenith bases for their Daytona movements. If they were the same, the prices would not differ so much. A Cortebert 616 can be had for 300Euros or so, a Rolex on the other hand will cost you 2.000Euro or more, depending on the condition (if you even manage to find one). The finish is completely different and of much much higher quality. I have seen a NOS Rolex 618 once and it was stunning. Nevertheless a gorgeous watch. But Rolex>Cortebert Edited December 24, 2008 by slay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDBroucke Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 here is my privat brain for this and a link for all... rolex 618 gives not ( is fantasy from panerai for the pam 21) the vintage 15&17 jewels panerai caliber is a decoradet cortebert 616,621,622,624 rolex refinished the bridges and the little bridge left from balance and polished the parts with the big different prices is the same via Angelus... Ang alarm 500-800 / nonalarm 2000+ the rolex elinvar movt is not a vintage panerai movt!!! i hope my words understand all (my english...) here pics from my cal 622 and this is exactly the vintage panerai movt see pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 (edited) Panerai used different movements. They also used cal 620. Some of the Rolex movements have poor finish, but some of them had a really good finish. There was no real consistency, because those watches were all limited quantity and handmade. I have seen a vintage PAM before with the same/similar movement as the PAM21. I also once almost bought the exact movement that is in the PAM 21 in a Rolex pocket watch. It was very old, but looked like new (the owner kept it in a safe as investment). Rolex movements (616,618,620,622 and whatnot) are very rare and much more expensive than Cortebert. They may have used Cortebert and just refinished some parts. But Rolex did the same to Valjoux 72 movements. A Rolex 727 is probably 5x as expensive as generic Valjoux 72, if not more. Even if they look the same and 80% of the parts are identical, they are different, in my opinion. And this is reflected by the price. PS I have seen alarm angelus go for over 1000$, some 1500$ even! All comes down to how rare they are Edited December 24, 2008 by slay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted December 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 but it's a different movemnt, wouldnt you say? Rolex also uses Zenith bases for their Daytona movements. If they were the same, the prices would not differ so much. A Cortebert 616 can be had for 300Euros or so, a Rolex on the other hand will cost you 2.000Euro or more, depending on the condition (if you even manage to find one). The finish is completely different and of much much higher quality. I have seen a NOS Rolex 618 once and it was stunning. Nevertheless a gorgeous watch. But Rolex>Cortebert Mr Genius pleas get me 2 more for 300€ ill give you a premium for the find of 100€ Last time i check they go for over 700$ if you are lucky to find one. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDBroucke Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 ok i wont 616 for 300 euro good luck with search... 616 step by step rare and bigger money... the 616 is first version for vintage panerai but 617(destro 616),620,622,624 to for vintage panerai rolex have the vintage panerai exclusive for officina panerai reworked a cortebert and thius movt nothings in another watches or pocket watches... definitiv!!! all another watches homages or replicas rolex have a contract with G.Panerai for this movement and have from cortebert this buy and refinished all another story`s is fantasy Quell: Ferettii,orologi passions,watchprosite,bonata http://orologi.forumfree.net/?t=32321202 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 Beautiful watch and great mvmnet. Slay, if you can find them at those prices get me a dozen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promotersf Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 Amazing watch, end of story ...Dani, you have a beauty there for you to thoroughly enjoy. I'm really starting to warm up to these vintage pieces...beautiful piece of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlgrey-erfurt Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 This is a real beauty! As i stated before in the sales corner And a Sister of my Marina Militare! Both are Powered by Cortebert 616 with Rolex engraved Bridges. What a nit picking here. OK. Cortebert manufactured this base movements and sold this to Rolex. A normal trade as Panerai buy his 6498 by soprod /Eta nowadays. after some reworks, imagine it was war and there you havent much resources to build perfect watches, like to engrave Rolex (and 618?) on it and maybe some Adjustments to keep better time, that s all. Sending out to Panerai for complete the watches, Voila a Kampfschwimmer is borne. And after War for many years the situation of building super watches was not good. Imagine Italy has lost the war too. For pointing out the incabloc has been put on in the fiftys shown in stephans pic above. and to compare a molnija and a cortebert thats ridiculous, the qualitiy of factory is totally different, not on the first view but in use. Do you compare a Volkswagen with a Mosquitch(Moskwitch)? of course not. Sorry Everybody who have a molnija or Moskwitsch in working order should be happy, but if there are problems .... don t get grey hairs... Back to the thread please keep this Beauty ( Stephan has spoken to you manytimes) And wear it well as i do with my MM which is on my wrist for two month now as a dayly wearer with absolute no problem and keeping perfect time cheers helmut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 (edited) ok i wont 616 for 300 euro good luck with search... 616 step by step rare and bigger money... the 616 is first version for vintage panerai but 617(destro 616),620,622,624 to for vintage panerai rolex have the vintage panerai exclusive for officina panerai reworked a cortebert and thius movt nothings in another watches or pocket watches... definitiv!!! all another watches homages or replicas rolex have a contract with G.Panerai for this movement and have from cortebert this buy and refinished all another story`s is fantasy Quell: Ferettii,orologi passions,watchprosite,bonata http://orologi.forumfree.net/?t=32321202 You don't understand my, I'm not denying this, I'm just saying that advertising this movement as Rolex is not okay. Same as you cannot say 6497 from Panerai is the same as 6497 from ETA. I don't know the market for 616 movements right now, I sold one of mine in perfect condition for 300Euros. (and I had to wait to find a buyer!) But I think SF240 is much rarer than Cortebert 616 This is a Rolex 618: http://www.knirim.de/xpane.pdf (the one in the middle), at least they call it Rolex 618, I think the most beautiful of all reworked Cortebert movements. But there are even better versions of the Rolex 618/620 out there (better finish/condition). I have the same/similar Cortebert movement as in the very last pic on the PDF, I dont know what cal. it is, it was a lucky buy, I have never seen that movement before! Edited December 25, 2008 by slay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlgrey-erfurt Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 You don't understand my, I'm not denying this, I'm just saying that advertising this movement as Rolex is not okay. Same as you cannot say 6497 from Panerai is the same as 6497 from ETA. I don't know the market for 616 movements right now, I sold one of mine in perfect condition for 300Euros. (and I had to wait to find a buyer!) But I think SF240 is much rarer than Cortebert 616 This is a Rolex 618: http://www.knirim.de/xpane.pdf (the one in the middle), at least they call it Rolex 618, I think the most beautiful of all reworked Cortebert movements. But there are even better versions of the Rolex 618/620 out there (better finish/condition). I have the same/similar Cortebert movement as in the very last pic on the PDF, I dont know what cal. it is, it was a lucky buy, I have never seen that movement before! 300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 I didnt say the last movement is beautiful/better than others, I said I have the last movement from Cortebert and I said that I have never seen this before, not even in pocket watches. I think the 17 Jewel version is the most beautiful, there are some that look similar to this one: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 This site even states the movement above (Rolex 618) is the same as used in the vintage radiomirs before, New Old Stock, like the Angelus: http://www.clubpanerai.com/index.asp?notiz...5&codice=15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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