chad Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 I wanted to get some superlume done to a watch but was looking at photos and thinking that the gens do not look like that at all? Also a key question is, in daylight does the superlume make the parts the wrong color white? Superlume is cool but i am interesed in making a watch that looks like the gen. Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Totally depends on what brand or watch you are looking for. L Swiss L Panerai use C3 SUper Lume. Anything which says T Swiss T is using Tritium which you can no longer get out on in the aftermarket. Rolex is a whole other kettle of fish. Age of genuine watch has huge impact as well. Which watch are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 C3 Superlume is exactlly the same as the genuine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad Posted August 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Sorry panerai C3 Superlume is exactlly the same as the genuine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 I wanted to get some superlume done to a watch but was looking at photos and thinking that the gens do not look like that at all? Also a key question is, in daylight does the superlume make the parts the wrong color white? Superlume is cool but i am interesed in making a watch that looks like the gen. Chad Super Luminove is the registered trade mark of the active component which is the rare earth (I can't remember!!). Anyway - when you see L on a dial that means it has Super Luminova. This is the product that bothe I and The Zigmeister (and others) use as it is available on the open market. The material comes in a large variety of daylight colours but all glow green (or you can have blue and red) in low light/ They are charged by being exposed to light and remain readable, but not brightly shinig like a torch which is only for the first few minutes, for around 8 hours or so. So the gen has super lume and the rep can have superlume - its merely a case of using the colour that the gen has!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 V is right so long as it is L Swiss L and not T Swiss T. Look at the bottom of the dial. But on the L Swiss L our modders with C3 is so good that the dial on my GMT matches up beautifully with a set of genuine GMT hands I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad Posted August 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 So if I was to send you a Panerai finepics it would be the same glow as the gen when you were done and no more? Chad Super Luminove is the registered trade mark of the active component which is the rare earth (I can't remember!!). Anyway - when you see L on a dial that means it has Super Luminova. This is the product that bothe I and The Zigmeister (and others) use as it is available on the open market. The material comes in a large variety of daylight colours but all glow green (or you can have blue and red) in low light/ They are charged by being exposed to light and remain readable, but not brightly shinig like a torch which is only for the first few minutes, for around 8 hours or so. So the gen has super lume and the rep can have superlume - its merely a case of using the colour that the gen has!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 So if I was to send you a Panerai finepics it would be the same glow as the gen when you were done and no more? Chad Yes.. plus a few scratches on the hands and maybe dial (inevitable on the relume) V is right so long as it is L Swiss L and not T Swiss T. Look at the bottom of the dial. But on the L Swiss L our modders with C3 is so good that the dial on my GMT matches up beautifully with a set of genuine GMT hands I have. Of course I mean L dials... Chad knows what he is saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
none Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 (edited) Yes.. plus a few scratches on the hands and maybe dial (inevitable on the relume) Of course I mean L dials... Chad knows what he is saying Scratches on hands and dial, omg, are you serious? I mean, I am quite picky and scratches on hands and dial should not be visible! Scratches on a dial and hands are not worth any reluming. Edited August 3, 2006 by none Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Scratches on hands and dial, omg, are you serious? I mean, I am quite picky and scratches on hands and dial should not be visible! Scratches on a dial and hands are not worth any reluming. Personally I think a few small scratches they worth it (as long as they are not aweful) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Never ever a scratch on the dial...not from me anyway... As for the hands, you will get minor scratches, but if you consider that you have to physically remove the lume with a knife, and handle the hands, there is no way to not have Minor scratches... And it depends on the type of hands, Gold coloured PAM hands Minor scratches, which is unavoidable, but not noticeable unless under bright light, and sometimes only with a loupe... Black painted PAM hands you won't see any scratches, silver ones, minor scratches... Examples... Is this close enough to show any scratches... This is why you super lume the watch... If it leaves my shop, it looks the same or better than when it arrived, minor scratches unavoidable on some types of hands, if you can't accept the minor scratches then dont' get your watch relumed, that message is clear and up front before any lume is applies.....no complaints so far, so it must be acceptable to those getting it done, or they would not be coming back for more... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 if you can't accept the minor scratches then dont' get your watch relumed, that message is clear and up front before any lume is applies.....no complaints so far, so it must be acceptable to those getting it done, or they would not be coming back for more... What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
none Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Thanks people, BTW, The Zigmeister, can I send you a PM for a question? Your inbox is full at the moment. Thanks a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad Posted August 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 The panerai numbers looks a little fat now on that first photo? Is there no way to prevent that? I have seen that on a few show off photos....the watch looks amazing when glowing but in daylight the paint on areas are a little sloppy looking? Chad Thanks people, BTW, The Zigmeister, can I send you a PM for a question? Your inbox is full at the moment. Thanks a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 BTW, The Zigmeister, can I send you a PM for a question? Your inbox is full at the moment. He's technically on a well-earned holiday. He's turned off his PMs and has an away message on his e-mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linder Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 You may also want to read here for more information on his PM situation. http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=9332 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 The panerai numbers looks a little fat now on that first photo? Is there no way to prevent that? I have seen that on a few show off photos....the watch looks amazing when glowing but in daylight the paint on areas are a little sloppy looking? Chad Shades of the recent lambasting I got at the TRC seem to be creeping in here a bit so let me explain some more - I have had many happy customers as well as a few bad ones. @V you asked me to rush your jobs for a cheap price - I explained at the time that I was not happy doing that and the use of superglue to re-assemble the dial after luming meant that some glue vapour had marked the dial. I also had to re-assemble the watch very quickly, and package it up to send back to you, so the glue leached out vapour whilst in the post and left the marks on the dial. This was an issue that only affected the sandwich dials and I also accidentally left some tiny scratches on one of them (you would not believe how easy it is to mark a dial). @The Zigmeister - I have always had the highest respect for you but, don't take this the wrong way, do not sit there taking a holier than though approach saying things like "I never leave a mark on my dials" as if to say that you are perfect - well I have had to correct things for other members that you did wrong but I would never have mentioned them to anyone (I have 3 specific examples) so cut me some slack here please. What The Zigmeister says about the gold hands is true "As for the hands, you will get minor scratches, but if you consider that you have to physically remove the lume with a knife, and handle the hands, there is no way to not have Minor scratches..." - they are plated in 24ct gold which means the plating is very soft and marks very easily. There is no way to polish them if marks are there (and they often come marked and damaged - see the marks and crap on these hands and the minute hand has an imprint from the second hand tube which I had to prise apart when it was sent to me). The pics show a new set of hands as delivered from a well known supplier. And has been mentioned painted hands do not suffer this problem. @Chad - The lume will look fat because you have a powder that is mixed with a solvent /binder varnish that is then painted over the original numbers/letters on the dial, it is very thick; try picking up a dot of lume, that is the consistency of honey, with the tip of a pin and place it accurately on a dial marker that is .0 something of a mm!!! You will find it is not as easy as it might appear. The lume thickness is sometimes more than ideal because of the nature of applying it by hand. The Swiss watch dial makers have screen/pad printing machines that do this in one click of a mouse - The Zigmeister and I apply this by hand - there is a big difference. Also, as I already explained, I use Super Luminova so the glow is exactly the same as the gen because it is the same!!!!! Really speaking if you want perfect looking numbers etc in daylight then buy a gen or get a rep but do not lume it. If you want it to be more like the gen (and I am talking PAM's here as the lume is what they are reknowned for) then have it lumed but accept that under a loupe (in most cases) it will not look like it's been applied by a machine. Look: we are dealing with reps here, most people looking at a watch will not be wearing loupes so will not see some of the things we do. Unless you are trying to pass it on as the real thing (as does happen and these enhancements only help increase the value!!!) stop looking too closely and enjoy the upgraded watch - remember though that it is a FAKE whatever you have had done to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Mark I am not gonna answer to everything that you said above. I never mentioned names or that I had a problem. If you have a problem with a member at TRC keep it there and don't bring it over. I am not registered there and don't give a [censored] about what happened there as long as it stays there. Did I said 'there' enough times? Conclusion: 1. I said: Yes.. plus a few scratches on the hands and 'maybe' dial (inevitable on the relume) 2. The Zigmeister said: if you can't accept the minor scratches then dont' get your watch relumed, that message is clear and up front before any lume is applies.....no complaints so far, so it must be acceptable to those getting it done, or they would not be coming back for more... 3. Finepics said: What The Zigmeister says about the gold hands is true "As for the hands, you will get minor scratches, but if you consider that you have to physically remove the lume with a knife, and handle the hands, there is no way to not have Minor scratches..." - they are plated in 24ct gold which means the plating is very soft and marks very easily. There is no way to polish them if marks are there Really speaking if you want perfect looking numbers etc in daylight then buy a gen or get a rep but do not lume it. If you want it to be more like the gen (and I am talking PAM's here as the lume is what they are reknowned for) then have it lumed but accept that under a loupe (in most cases) it will not look like it's been applied by a machine. Look: we are dealing with reps here, most people looking at a watch will not be wearing loupes so will not see some of the things we do. Unless you are trying to pass it on as the real thing (as does happen and these enhancements only help increase the value!!!) stop looking too closely and enjoy the upgraded watch - remember though that it is a FAKE whatever you have had done to it. So please we all said the same things... This is not a debate between anyone and who is better. You both do what it possibly can be done by hand and this is 'not' Perfect as you both said. People understand it, and people don't. People will still continue to relume their watches and others won't. CASE CLOSED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
none Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) Ok, I think I can deal with a few minor scratches on the hands. By the way, I got a superlumed dial from davidsen. It is supposed to be a sandwich dial. Please Finepics, The Zigmeister and other experts on this forum, can you tell me your honest opinion on the quality of this dial (on the right site one can see a pretty good standard dial from PT's PAM111 which is NOT superlumed)? I wonder, does superluming make the two layers almost equal? I think: - The depth of the sandwich dial is very very low, almost not noticeable. - The font is incorrect - Some lines are not "cut out" well Please look at the link below (zoom in for detail!): http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/1686/dialwd5.jpg Thanks a lot! Edited August 4, 2006 by none Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 @Ziggy - I have always had the highest respect for you but, don't take this the wrong way, do not sit there taking a holier than though approach saying things like "I never leave a mark on my dials" as if to say that you are perfect By splashing it all over the forum, you have served your purpose, there is no right way to take a comment like this. Be that as it may, I have a bit of time before I fly accross the pond, and will certainly add my comments. I never said I was perfect, but watchmaking is a perfection trade, just as it is with my day job - fixing airplanes and helicopters and fighters, no half ass jobs cut it - 100% - or lives are in jepordy. Of course no lives are at risk with a watch, but I try really hard to make sure there is no evidance that I worked on the watch. As for marks on the dials, many many times, I find that the dials are marked when I open the case, or that the hands are put on wrong and you can't remove them without marking the dial. I use the correct tools and techniques... I do make mistakes, everyone does, when I do, I let the customer know (as in my TRC example of the 1950 dial I marked during bezel removal). I also stand behind my work 100%. If I am not informed of any problems, well then how can I correct them... I can think of many examples where dials were maked due to the above issues, I tell the customer what happened, ask them to look at it in person, and if not pleased, let me know, and I will do the right thing. Some people will send you their watch without even a second glance at it, yet, when you return it to them, they take a 4X loupe and go over every square centimeter of it, and note stuff, that was there all along, but that they did not even note before they sent it off... - well I have had to correct things for other members that you did wrong but I would never have mentioned them to anyone (I have 3 specific examples) so cut me some slack here please. Well you did mention it, right here - right now...not sure the reason, but in any event, that is what you say and I have no way to confirm or deny this. Why these members would not even mention these problems to me, or allow me to fix my "wrongdoings" is disapointing, especially when my warranty is void as soon as someone else opens the case. And each case is marked when it leaves the shop so I can tell. No one who has delt with me could claim that I am not an open communicator or approachable... So the fact that they sent it to you, and claimed that "I" did the work, and that you needed to fix my errors, without any colaboration from me - that I actually did the work in question - leaves me to ask questions. Maybe I did the work, but did it occur to you that maybe they just told you that I did the work. Unless and until you speak to me about it, your just taking their word for it. Did it ever occure to you that maybe, just maybe, they or someone else did the work, screwed it up, and then sent it to you (since they couldn't go to me, as I had nothing to do with it in the first place) and to save face, they said "Ziggy did the work, but don't tell him...". Without me confirming or denying that I worked on this particular watch, then it's just hearsay, and why you would bring it up in this contex, is beyond me. I have many satisfied customers, stand 100% behind my work, but if not given the chance to make right on a mistake, then there is little I can do for the customer is there... By standing 100% behind my work, that means covering all shipping costs, and repairs to correct my mistakes when they do happen. I have never ever shirked my commitment to my customers - ever... With a warranty like this, why would they pay someone else to get the job done...seems strange to me...especially if I will do it for free... I am guessing these members are in the EU, and as such would have shipped the watch to me...which means they know that 5 days is the max time accross the pond...so excessive turn or shipping times is no excuse...warranty repairs are done the same day received...and shipped the next day. I would love to hear who these "3 members" are, and to know what I did wrong, after all, if you never get feedback, how can you improve what you do??? Not really fair is it... I just got that 1950 from Greece, but won't even mention what it looks like...I am certain no watch that left my shop ever looked like this one does, of that fact, I am certain... On that note, my plane is waiting... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 The panerai numbers looks a little fat now on that first photo? They are not fatter at all, they are the same width as they were before being lumed... The lume makes them thicker, it's applied to the dial and by applying it you will see more thickness to it... Is there no way to prevent that? Yes, dont' get your watch lumed... I have seen that on a few show off photos....the watch looks amazing when glowing but in daylight the paint on areas are a little sloppy looking? Chad If you find that at the magnification I have shown in the picture (2X what you can see without a loupe) that it looks "Sloppy", then you simply dont' need to get your watch lumed...if you find the quality of that job "sloppy" I wonder what you find acceptable...these are reps, and the lume is applied by hand... I will make sure I don't do any lume work for you, as the quality of that lume job is the best I can do, and I know Mark (finepics) does as good a job - or better than I do with his lume application. So if that photo is considered "sloppy", then try a commercial shop rather than me or Finepics... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 I have to wonder what 'chad's' true intentions are. He seems awful concerned about making his watches look EXACTLY like genuine. Hope that his plan isn't to SELL them as genuine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad Posted August 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 That is about the craziest post I have have ever read and I have great respect for your posts and have learned alot from them.... OF COURSE I WANT THEM TO LOOK LIKE GENS..........EXACTLY EVEN you are joking right? We spend thousands of posts taling about this...we spend hours discussing this crown and that AR coating......blah blah... I have to wonder what 'chad's' true intentions are. He seems awful concerned about making his watches look EXACTLY like genuine. Hope that his plan isn't to SELL them as genuine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad Posted August 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Simply no reason for you to take my questions personally like that.... I have wrote glowing compliments about your work in other posts on other forums too...... My question was about the process and what is possible and your other post answered that well. One thing i have learned here is the only discussion that is tolerated is people kissing each others asses. Your work is great and I was even going to send my 176H out to you. Lumed numbers end up looking fatter and sloppier and you point out that that is unavoidable and I understand that now. Nothing personal to anyone. They are not fatter at all, they are the same width as they were before being lumed... The lume makes them thicker, it's applied to the dial and by applying it you will see more thickness to it... Yes, dont' get your watch lumed... If you find that at the magnification I have shown in the picture (2X what you can see without a loupe) that it looks "Sloppy", then you simply dont' need to get your watch lumed...if you find the quality of that job "sloppy" I wonder what you find acceptable...these are reps, and the lume is applied by hand... I will make sure I don't do any lume work for you, as the quality of that lume job is the best I can do, and I know Mark (finepics) does as good a job - or better than I do with his lume application. So if that photo is considered "sloppy", then try a commercial shop rather than me or Finepics... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Well.... No offense was meant, but we all know that no matter what, at the end of the day, we're still dealing with reps! I think my point is to set your expectations accordingly. When you're dealing with reps and mods, etc. you have to remember that a lot of the process is performed by hand, and by humans. The precision and accuracy that is achievable with human hands is quite amazing- especially when you consider that any slight imperfections will only be noticable under a loupe. The genuines have the process automated and performed by machines; the objctive is to mass produce quickly, and the precision achieved is a result of mechanized production. But, if you're concerned about what the finished product looks like udner a loupe... Who exactly are you trying to impress? Who else, besides you, is going to be inspecting these that closely? A rep is a rep is a rep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.