Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I have a rather unusual opportunity tomorrow... I found that a very good friend of mine has a gen 116660. During a discussion today we decided it would be best to get the two watches together for a little photo shoot. Since he happens to be a website designer, he is also pretty good with a camera. So I hope that his pics are better than what I could do. NOW for the interesting part. HE OWES ME big time for a favor I did his family a couple years ago. He is willing to allow me to remove his bezel insert and try to fit it on my DSSD. My question is, has ANYONE had any experience in handling a gen ceramic bezel insert? I would think that genuine ceramic is fragile and not flexible enough to "pry out" like we do with our replica ones. The absolute last thing I want to do is crack this thing taking it out, or trying to put it in mine. He intends to contact Rolex and tell them that it came out while diving, I guess if I crack the damn thing he can say "it cracked"... If ANYONE has handled the gen insert for the DSSD or GMT IIc, I would love to hear from you. If anyone has any suggestions, or an idea how it is attached I would love to hear that also. I have looked at the technical drawings, and there is no mention of a glue or epoxy, but I also dont see how it could safely be press fit either. Thanks in advance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I have a rather unusual opportunity tomorrow... I found that a very good friend of mine has a gen 116660. During a discussion today we decided it would be best to get the two watches together for a little photo shoot. Since he happens to be a website designer, he is also pretty good with a camera. So I hope that his pics are better than what I could do. NOW for the interesting part. HE OWES ME big time for a favor I did his family a couple years ago. He is willing to allow me to remove his bezel insert and try to fit it on my DSSD. My question is, has ANYONE had any experience in handling a gen ceramic bezel insert? I would think that genuine ceramic is fragile and not flexible enough to "pry out" like we do with our replica ones. The absolute last thing I want to do is crack this thing taking it out, or trying to put it in mine. He intends to contact Rolex and tell them that it came out while diving, I guess if I crack the damn thing he can say "it cracked"... If ANYONE has handled the gen insert for the DSSD or GMT IIc, I would love to hear from you. If anyone has any suggestions, or an idea how it is attached I would love to hear that also. I have looked at the technical drawings, and there is no mention of a glue or epoxy, but I also dont see how it could safely be press fit either. Thanks in advance... I read in another thread, that someone used the plastic insert from a shirt collar to prize up the insert. By choice, I would completely strip the watch, so I was able to get the collar insert nearly flat into the side of the insert, but that might not be a possibility... I believe the inserts on the GMTIIc are glued into place, as the ceramic cannot 'flex' to fit into the bezel, in the same way a metal or plastic insert can flex, before fitting securely. Best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbchubb Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 look here and scroll down... hxxp://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=37035 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 The link on RF is what I had fore reference material. I shows a "bezel ring" between the bezel insert and the bezel. Im not sure I wish to take a chance trying to remove this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Well good news and bad news boys and girls... I had the chance to compare the genuine 116660 DSSD and our beloved V4 today. Because we had decided to not attempt to remove the bezel insert, it was simply over lunch. So I dont have pictures. Those we will take next week when we get together at his office. But here are some real honest to goodness comparisons of the two. First the color of the steel is so far off its not even funny. The stainless steel in the gen is SO bright it almost looks like brushed 18k white gold. Although this is the best bracelet Ive ever seen on a rep., holding them both its not even close in fit and finish. Even though the dial is less shiny on the V4 than on the V3, its still not close. I dont even think the V2 was "matte enough". The dial on the gen is really a flat black. Everything about the bezel insert is wrong. The entire bezel on the rep is larger than on the genuine. Which means the width of the bezel insert is wrong, we all know the depth and boldness of the font is wrong and the Pearl is WAY TOO TALL on the rep. The shape of the pearl is nearly spot on but, its almost 2x as tall as it needs to be. And everyone who painted the bezel insert engraving... get some acetone and pull it all back out. Sorry to say it but in person, the engraving is VERY silverish. And definitely not white. The HEV on the gen is flush with the case, and not even the slightest bit recessed. The ORIGINAL GAS ESCAPE VALVE and RING LOCK SYSTEM is perfectly centered and of a smaller font on the genuine. And my home made bar code was about 2x the size it should be. All in all, I was shocked to see how different these are. I had been comparing it to pictures and thought it was nearly the best of the best... But anyone who has seen the genuine or held it will know. Anyway, next Monday we will be getting together again at his office where his camera equipment is and we will be able to take some pictures of the two right next to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Those're some pretty interesting differences, especially the sizing of the bezel assembly. I'm not too surprised about the difference in the color of the steel, as that's the kind of point RobbieG has made, that Rolex use their own alloys, and lower grade metals simply do not look the same. I guess it pretty much also means that someone couldn't actually mod a rep of the 116660 to look like gen, without building a franken of all external gen parts. Sure, a coat of matte lacquer might get the dial looking right, but if things like the bezel assembly, bracelet, and HEV are wrong, well, the dial's not going to carry the illusion by itself Thanks for the review, I'm really looking forwards to seeing the comparative shots when you're able to take them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 First the color of the steel is so far off its not even funny. The stainless steel in the gen is SO bright it almost looks like brushed 18k white gold. I agree with this 1000%. I know many people with gen Rolexes. I have a friend with a gen daytona. Visually the rep I have and the gen are quite similiar but the steel side by side is night and day. The brushed parts of the bracelet look almost polished compared to the brushed parts of the rep. You can see the shine from 20 feet away. Even next to a gen datejust you can see a major difference. I have found that a polshing with a cape cod cloth gets the steel brighter but nowhere near the 904 shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 very interesting indeed deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Being the nit picky obsessive person I am, after reading this post and posting the above I grabbed my daytona, GMT IIc and a cape cod cloth. I tell you it does make a huge difference. Apparently the steel comes from the factory with a lot of dirt. I have polished the daytona before but a year or two of not cleaning it dulled the steel quite a bit. Also the brushed affect is not so prevelent on the gen Rolex due to the higher grade steel. The polishing brightened it up and cleaned off the dirt giving it that more smooth shiny look. It is probably not noticable in pics but I will compare with my friends gen daytona tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 It is not just that "rep steel" looks different than "gen steel". DSSD steel looks different than other Rolex steel. I hope that we can capture the difference when side by side. Im sure given how they look, it should be apparent in pics. Maybe I need to find someone with a gen sub or seadweller so that we can compare gen to gen. I agree with this 1000%. I know many people with gen Rolexes. I have a friend with a gen daytona. Visually the rep I have and the gen are quite similiar but the steel side by side is night and day. The brushed parts of the bracelet look almost polished compared to the brushed parts of the rep. You can see the shine from 20 feet away. Even next to a gen datejust you can see a major difference. I have found that a polshing with a cape cod cloth gets the steel brighter but nowhere near the 904 shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Yea, I've observed the same thing regarding the steel. There is no amount of cape codding one can do to the rep. Can't put lipstick on a pig... or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Great read! Looking forward to the pics. The side-by-side with a gen is the Kool-Aid acid test. They used to be a popular thread topic back on the old RWG. Guys would look for crown guard shape detail, aligned M/m, 'dial crispness' blah, blah, you just have to look at the WHOLE watch as one to see the difference is in the intrinsic total appearance and fit and finish. In person? No brainer. Anything short of an 'Ubiquitous' Franken and...........well. I used to get a kick out of guys saying "I left my rep at home because I wouldn't dare take one into an AD, but I held a gen 16610 today and the bracelet wasn't any nicer than my rep! WHAH?! I have a buddy with a 16613. Everytime I see him out we make eye contact, he rolls his eyes and takes off his watch and hands it over. That TT bracelet is freaking butter. All that aside and I'm sure 'carlsbad' 's comments can be taken to the bank, but that shouldn't discourage anyone from getting this replica if they had designs on it. I'm sure the rep is awesome. For what it is. What it's supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Bracelet mod... That problem solved. Also, scroll down about half way on Jake's Rolex Watch blog for an even cooler mod idea that completely solves the SS mis-match: "...added a black DLC (Diamond Like Carbon) coating producing more of a stealth military vibe...In the photo below notice the Submariner has had solid curved spring-bars permanently welded to the lugs. This serves several different functions. It allows the Submariner to accommodate a wider range of NATO, and ZULU straps and stops the straps from rubbing against the serial number on the side of the case. Also notice the pearl indices on the bezel at the top has been replaced with a red ruby." Worth considering on a DSSD... Related link by avitt for this process done by one of our members... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I also have mine on a NATO now... Good call! Where is that GEN picture from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I also have mine on a NATO now... Good call! Where is that GEN picture from? I edited my post to link to the blog that discusses the idea plus DLC idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 That looks surprisingly good on the green NATO. Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbchubb Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I'm not really that surprised. If we look at the nice pictures on repdealers websites, we tend to forget that there is a reason why a high end gen costs more than a rep of the same model. It's not all marketing cost, labor cost and high markups. While the quality of reps has increased a lot over the last few years, a side-by-side will allways be a reality check. There are things like exact dimensions, CG shape or matte vs shiny dial. I'm not talking about those replication issues. I'm talking about quality of workmanship and material used. Take the insert: on the gen the numerals are filled with platinum, not paint like on the rep. Take the steel: high end 904L vs "who knows what". Take Finish and QC to ensure the watch is waterproof to 3900meters vs "I am sure I can shower with it after I mod the HE valve, grease the gaskets and tighten the caseback..." I enjoy my V3 DSSD. But at a price that is less than the cost to replace the insert on the gen, I don't expect it to be an exact duplicate of an 8.500$ watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Can't put lipstick on a pig... or something like that. You can put a tuxedo on a pig but you still have a pig......... or something like that. I compared the gen today wit my cape codded rep. he rep is a lot closer but as already said in this thread the fit and finish is superb on the gen. The one thing that has always bothered me with rep Rolexes is the end links line up perfectly with the case on the gen. The reps always have end links that don't quite sit flush with the case. This isn't apparent in other replica brands why always with Rolex? This just goes to show there is no subsitute for quality precise machining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I took a couple steps today to get it a little closer. Thank you to Gioarmani for giving me a little support via PM on the dial spraying. I was able to find the exact matte finish paint that he had used after several stops. I have to say that this stuff is amazing. I bought one of those $2 plastic sprayer gun triggers and that made it a little easier also. This stuff is barely paint. After being sure to shake the can for a good 5 minutes, then giving it to my son to shake for another few minutes I did a couple test sprays. It comes out like the finest mist of aerosol spray Ive ever seen. It literally is DUSTING the target. I found a GMT II dial that I had and tested the spray technique on it and was truly amazed. The GMT IIc dial is about the glossiest dial I think Rolex makes, and it is now a perfectly sprayed matte black. I personally think I would have this done to a gen if I had one. It creates an entirely new look, and I imagine with the contrast to the ceramic it would be pretty nice. After doing that I moved on to the DSSD. I made a couple changes to Gio's technique in that I wanted to remove the dial completely from the movement. After doing that I placed the dial on a large pad of rodico and took it outside where I sprayed it identically to the GMT IIc dial and the results were identical. After a couple passed, I waited about 5 minutes then did two more passes and let it dry for 2 hours. I then took it inside and under a 10x magnifier used one of the paper dowel q-tips with all of the fluff removed to clean each of the metal surrounds on the markers. What I did was remove all of the actual cotten, and very lightly soak the dowel in alcohol. I hollowed out the center slightly (imagine using a q-tip hollowed out to press hands on) so that there would be limited contact with the lume. I then went over each marker very carefully. Under 10x magnification it was rather obvious that the matte spray had adhered to the markers. After several minutes of delicate cleaning, it was all gone and the markers were bright again. I then charged the two dials under the same light for the same 5 minutes and took some pics. I wanted to make sure that the alcohol had not removed or affected the lume at all. Very pleased to say, it had not! The pictures that I have are from about 5 minutes after being put in the sealed bathroom. Not only is the blue lume on the DSSD brighter, but it is also much better applied than on the GMT IIc. The bare eye was really able to pick up the uneven ness of the lume on the GMT IIc, its perfect on the DSSD. I then re-assembled the watch and took a few more pics of the head. Project two was to test a couple stainless steel polishes. I tried rogers stainless polish with a polishing cloth on the bracelet and after about 30 minutes of rubbing there was absolutely no improvement. I then ran back out and bought a bottle of BRASSO metal polish. It is a cleaner and polish for stainless steel. As soon as I started rubbing, it was apparant that SOMETHING was happening. The cloth I was using turned black (the brasso is a creme color). I rubbed the bracelet by hand and after doing one side compared the two halves and the side I had rubbed retained all of the brush markes but was now a much brighter/ whiter color. I did the other side and saw the same improvement. I then got the idea to try using one of the cotton wheels on my dremel to give it a quick buffing with a lght coat of the brasso. I was impressed to get even better results after doing the entire bracelet (both the front and the back). I finished by rinsing it off in warm water. I THINK... that alot of the dark color that we are seeing in this steel is left over chemicals used during the manufacturing process. Becuase more than polishing the bracelet, I think it just REALLY cleaned it. It does not appear polished like the mid links on a GMT IIc, but it is MUCH brighter. Unfortunately, I could not get ANY decent pics of the difference when comparing it to an unpolished sub bracelet... but the difference is night and day. I cant wait to get it next to the gen again, I think its pretty close now. Well, that was my afternoon... Thanks again to Gio for the assistance. If anyone else wants to do this dial spraying mod, I think they should go for it. its relatively easy, and the result is incredible. Here are the pics... NOTE: any of the dust particles you see on either dial are from sitting after the paint had dried and the blew right off. That was my one big fear was that I would not blow a piece of dust off the dial and then spray over the top of it. I was lucky I guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 (edited) Bad ass, my friend. Bad ASS!! Did you use the Krylon matte finishing spray or Krylon matte spray-paint? Edited April 9, 2009 by gioarmani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I found the exact can you used... The one with the paint brushes on it (I think color 1311 or 3111 or something like that). That is some kick ass stuff. I think Im going to do this to all of my dials regardless of it being correct or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbean Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 NICE!!! I was playing on doing this to mine this weekend. Did you use hand removers to take off the hands? I'll don't know if I should pick up a set or just try and hack it. Also, what's the exact brand/color/type of paint you used. Can you pick this stuff up at a Home Depot? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I have a set of hand removers that I use. Also remember to put a piece of paper down on the dial or use the Bergeon dial covers. The paint is Krylon Matte Finish #1311. The SKU # is 724504013112 and I finally found it at Walmart. I went to Home Depot first and they did not have it, I went to another hardware store and they did not have it, and they were out of stock at Michaels (although they do carry it). There is a picture of the can in Gio's tutorial (its a white can with paintbrushes in a little jar as the picture). I damn near danced a jig when I saw it in the locked case at Walmart!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asf Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 woweee nice mod! I just bought a zulu for my DSSD because of you guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.