Reps And The Water

[crystalcranium]

Fookin ell!!!!!

Again I have to challenge your assessment. I will not speak for Rolxes or other reps but I again have to say that PAM reps are almost identical to the real thing. The case and case parts are made in exactly the same way as the gens - just milled in CNC machines. All the O rings are commonly available to the watchmaking industry - in fact I would not be suprised if Chinese companies supply some of the parts like O rings etc to the Swiss watch industry.

If I were to drop a rep PAM and a Gen they would likely suffer the same fate after all they have the same movement, the same size dial and other components and the movts are secured into the case in the exact same way. Once they have been tweaked where necessary the only difference between the rep and gen (apart from a couple of cosmetic issues) is a wooden box, papers and about £1850!!! As Kruzer said my biggest concern would be getting the leather straps wet as they are certainly no waterproof (except Metta leather!!).

Just how far down are you intending to take them? best advice for you would be to only wear them on a sunny day if it concerns yoiu that much!!

PS - I think TJGladeRaider's post kinda says it all!!!

I've had the hands and coronet pop off a $175 submariner rep when it dropped 18 inches from my hand to a countertop. I've had "screws of unknown origin" rattle around in the movement of a Breitling replica only to fall out into the black hole of livingroom carpeting never to be seen again when I opened the back. I had a submariner rep fog when I sweated in it and I dried it out only to have it fail from the effects of getting wet several months later. Rotors fall off, bracelets break, soft screws strip, date wheels easily become un-synchroniized.....I hope and rub the rabbits foot that my replicas approach Timex or Casio specifications in their reliability. Omega, Breitling, Panerai and Rolex specifications, other than appearance, is a pipe dream. I sure as hell avoid challenging them when the challenge is elective.

I think your assesment that tweeking a PAM rep up to specs puts it in the catagory of a genuine, the only difference being the paperwork and box speaks volumes about how you feel and use your replicas. More power to you. Classic car collectors come in 2 flavors, those who rub them and those who drive them. I agree with you, I am something of a "hanger collector" prefering to acquire beautiful pieces and keep them that way in a glass case only to be taken out on rare occasions. I think I wear my Breitling GT about 10 hours a week. The rest of the week, it gets rubbed with a polishing cloth, but when it has to shine, it's a very bright star.

[eddhead]

From what I have seen with all the watches I have worked on they are made in a standard watch making way. The factories that make them also make watches for the legitimate market so use commonly available parts/techniques. That is that the case tubes are all press fitted into the case (same as gens), they all have an O ring in the tube (same as gens although Panerai's tubes are better engineered), the crowns all have O rings (same as the gens) and the crystals are held in with nylon "I" rings (same as gens), the bezels are also held in with a "I" ring (same as gens) although some are a friction fit with an O ring under them (some fiddys are like this). and finally all the case backs have an O ring (same as gens).

Now the problem with most PAM's is that the CG lever does not tighten the crown to the case (easily remedied) and often the casebacks are only just finger tightened. If you can open it with duct tape it ain't gona be sealed properly.

So, I would happily swim/dive with any of my PAM's so long as those couple of things are sorted out.

Good post, I have had chats with some of our dealers here and they were consistent with your message. I will tell you that I have swam with my PAM and not had any problems whatsoever. I have showered with my OMEGA SMP, and it is fine as well.

[eddhead]

Exactly!!!

Intetesting article about water resistance:

What makes a watch water-resistant?

There are several features that help make a watch water-resistant. The most important is the gaskets, or 0 rings-made of rubber, nylon or Teflon which form watertight seals at the joints where the crystal, case back and crown meet the watch case. if the watch is a chronograph, the chronograph pushers will also have gaskets.

In addition, water-resistant watch cases are lined with a sealant, applied in the form of a quick-hardening liquid, which helps keep water out.

The thickness and material of the case is also a big factor in determining whether a watch can safely be worn underwater. The case must be sturdy enough to withstand pressure without caving in says John Sokol, technical directors at TAG-Heuer USA in general, this means a steel or titanium case or a steel case plated with gold, manufacturers say. Solid gold cases can be water resistant provided they are sufficiently thick.

A screw-in case back, as opposed to one that pushes in, also contributes to a watch's water resistance. A screw-in crown, a feature of many divers' watches, helps prevent water getting into the case through the watch-stem hole. When it is screwed down it forms a water tight seal much like the seal between a jar and its lid.

2. Why aren't watches ever labeled or described in advertising as "waterproof" even if they can be worn deep-sea diving?

According to guidelines issued by the Federal Trade Commission, watch marketers are not allowed to label their watches "water-proof." Even watches designed for deep-sea diving cannot claim to be water-proof.

3. My watch is labeled "water-resistant to 50 meters" but the manufacturer's instructions say I can only wear it swimming, not snorkeling or diving. Why is that?

The different levels of water resistance as expressed in meters are only theoretical. They refer to the depth at which a watch will keep out water if both watch and the water are perfectly motionless, says Scott Chou, technical director at Seiko Corp. of America. These conditions, of course, are never met in the real swimmer's or diver's world. in real life, the movement of the wearer's arm through the water increases the pressure on the watch dramatically; so it can't be worn to the depths indicated by lab testing machines.

4. What are the various levels of water-resistance?

Watches with the lowest level of water resistance are labeled simply "water-resistant." They can withstand splashes of water but should not be submerged. Above that (or below it, literally speaking), the most common designations are

-50 meters (1 meter is about 3.3 feet), which means the watch is suitable for swimming;

-100 meters; indicating it can be worn snorkeling;

-200 meters, suitable for recreational scuba diving and, believe it or not,

-1,000 meters (roughly three-fifths of a mile).

Watches in this last category can endure deep-sea diving. Their gaskets are made of materials that can withstand the helium used in decompression chambers. Some have valves that let the wearer release the helium that has seeped into the watch so the case won't explode as the watch and diver adjust to normal atmospheric conditions, says Peter Purtschert, technical director at Breitling USA.

Keep in mind that the depth specified on the watch dial represents the results of tests done in the lab, not in the ocean (see question 3).

5. I've seen the abbreviation ATM used in labeling degrees of water resistance. What does it mean?

It stands for "atmosphere" and it's equal to 10 meters of water pressure. Another word for "atmosphere" is "bar," which is often used in Europe.

6. Is water resistance permanent?

No. Water resistance depends on several factors (see question 1), some of which can be affected by wear or simply by time. Gaskets can become corroded or misshapen, cases denied or crystals loose or broken. That's why your watch, like your car and your teeth, needs preventive maintenance.

7. How often does water resistance need to be checked?

At least once a year. Most manufacturers say water resistance needs to be tested every time the case back is opened, because opening the case can dislodge the gaskets. This rule applies even to a simple battery change. (Many service centers also change the gaskets whenever a watch comes in for service.) You should take it only to a service center authorized by the manufacturer. Doing otherwise could invalidate your warranty.

8. How is water resistance tested?

There are basically two ways of machine-testing water resistance, referred to as "dry" and "wet" testing. In the former, the watch is subjected to air pressure and measurements taken to see whether the case expands as a result of air leaking into the case. If it does, the watch is not water resistant.

In one type of "wet" testing, the watch is first subjected to air pressure, then submerged in water. If air bubbles come out of the watch when it is underwater, it means air seeped into the watch before it was submerged, and it is therefore not water-resistant. In another type, the watch is placed in a small water-filled chamber which is then subjected to pressure from a piston. If water gets into the watch, it's not water resistant (this is obviously the riskiest form of water-resistance testing).

9. Can I wear my water resistant watch in the hot tub?

No. Exposing your watch to heat, whether it's in a hot tub or sauna can cause the gaskets to lose their shape and their ability to keep out water.

10. What besides extreme temperatures will jeopardize my watch's water-resistance?

Some chemicals can corrode the gaskets and make it vulnerable. Heavily chlorinated water can cause problems, as can spray-on perfumes and hairsprays that work their way into the watch's seams and damage the gaskets. (They can also damage your watch's finish.)

Great post. Thanks!

[Finepics]

I've had the hands and coronet pop off a $175 submariner rep when it dropped 18 inches from my hand to a countertop. I've had "screws of unknown origin" rattle around in the movement of a Breitling replica only to fall out into the black hole of livingroom carpeting never to be seen again when I opened the back. I had a submariner rep fog when I sweated in it and I dried it out only to have it fail from the effects of getting wet several months later. Rotors fall off, bracelets break, soft screws strip, date wheels easily become un-synchroniized.....I hope and rub the rabbits foot that my replicas approach Timex or Casio specifications in their reliability. Omega, Breitling, Panerai and Rolex specifications, other than appearance, is a pipe dream. I sure as hell avoid challenging them when the challenge is elective.

I think your assesment that tweeking a PAM rep up to specs puts it in the catagory of a genuine, the only difference being the paperwork and box speaks volumes about how you feel and use your replicas. More power to you. Classic car collectors come in 2 flavors, those who rub them and those who drive them. I agree with you, I am something of a "hanger collector" prefering to acquire beautiful pieces and keep them that way in a glass case only to be taken out on rare occasions. I think I wear my Breitling GT about 10 hours a week. The rest of the week, it gets rubbed with a polishing cloth, but when it has to shine, it's a very bright star.

I understand of course. Actually I did a nut and bolt restoration on bothen MGB Roadster and a Triumph Stag some years ago - both were driven every day rain or shine!!! As I have said my main concern is with the PAM reps which have a relatively simple construction and by ensuring a swiss movt and sapphire glass at least gives me the same reassurance that a gen would.

[Chronus]

I understand of course. Actually I did a nut and bolt restoration on bothen MGB Roadster and a Triumph Stag some years ago - both were driven every day rain or shine!!! As I have said my main concern is with the PAM reps which have a relatively simple construction and by ensuring a swiss movt and sapphire glass at least gives me the same reassurance that a gen would.

Sapphire crystal is not always as thick on the replica.

Also, for those worried about waterproof straps, just use the PAM rubber strap.

[V]

About waterproof straps...

1st the Metta is not waterproof.. If you do the mistake and put a strap that old in the sea without the appropriate care it will tear apart.

It was not in the sea for 200 years but in tar which allowed the leather to preserve.

It is an exquisite strap but need a lot of care to preserve it.

2nd the best waterproof straps are either the plastic ones (and by saying plastic I mean the plastic leather ones )

or the rubberized calfs. (an example is the MP6)