iceberg888

Great thread, By-Tor.

Though I'm pretty green still, welcome.

I'd go for the 2nd one as well, but dang, that Bulova is pretty sweet.

TeeJay & B16a2, thanks for the comments on PP/VC quality. I'm sure you're right in that it's unlikely that a replica would truly mimic the level of quality displayed by the real deal. Those watches are surely finished to an insane level. I just wanted to get a sense of whether it was laughably poor or at least impressive given the price differential. And if they are made to at least the level of other gens, I'm sure I could live with that. Of course it sounds like some models will need some work and won't necessarily be very convincing out of the box.

I will definitely have a look!

So far there does seem to be a pretty strong theme -- BK WM9s are definitely the way to go. Fakemaster, I know there's no perfect way to answer the question as even real Rolexes can feel a bit flimsy with their hollow link bands. But I was hoping to leverage the community to find those that felt solid and genuine to them during their time collecting. Like Maxman, I'm all about the quality. And if the quality is there, then I can be a little more forgiving on the accuracy details. I guess what I'm saying, is that I want to make sure the base scenario is there, where I can enjoy the watch on it's own, out of the box, without heavy mods. Then if I decide I love the watch after some time and it's a keeper, I'll probably get it serviced and maybe modded. But if it doesn't feel like a quality piece to begin with, it'll probably not get any wrist time and I will have deemed the purchase a mistake. Thank you all for your thoughts so far. I hope you keep them coming. Will look into the Ebel BTR (although it seems too big for my wrists) as it is definitely looks stunning.

Must agree with Jesse. These pics are awesome!

I've read a few reviews where people mentioned that it was their first rep that felt like a gen to them. That's EXACTLY the feeling I'm after. The thread on "What do you expect from Reps" really got me thinking a lot about what I really wanted from reps. I realize that I probably don't care for accuracy to the original so much as overall beauty and quality. The thread on "With reps being so good today ... why buy a gen for thousands more" makes me think that it won't be too hard to find reps that feel like a gen in terms of construction. My criteria is whether they can impress me with their quality and workmanship on their own, out-of-the-box, and under US$300 (though I'm willing to stretch up to $500). I say out of the box, because the value equation shifts rapidly for me if I have to spend significant time/money getting them modified. I'm sure that as my interest grows, they won't be left untouched. (I think that's largely the appeal of the hobby and community here.) I might try and tackle some projects myself and/or develop relationships with the more skilled modders. But for my first rep or two, I'm looking for a really positive experience that'll make me want to come back for more. I would say the minimum benchmark in terms of quality is the Seiko Monster. It looks solid and well-made, much more like it cost $1000+ than its true price. The opposite case is the Alpha Submariner. It's amazing for around $40 shipped, but it still feels cheap. Out of the box, can a rep of these impress me with their overall workmanship and feel gen-like? Vacheron Constantin Overseas Patek Philippe Aquanaut 5165 Patek Phillipe Nautilus AP Royal Oak (NOT the Offshore) Rolex Sea-Dweller 16600 PAM 050 Dealer/model recommendation appreciated. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

I wanted to take a little time out to express my gratitude that such a community even exists. The passion and knowledge for watches here is unparalleled. I'm constantly blown away at how much more people know about watches and movements here than on typical gen forums. Maybe because here it's about "owning" the watch rather than just buying it. What do I mean by owning it? It seems like the decision to purchase something is just the first step. There are often different models from different dealers, and you have to decide which tradeoffs are more/less important to you. And for many, the follow-on modifications/improvements appear to be more than half the fun. Part of the beauty of reps to me is they equalize the playing field a bit when it comes to cost. You can then buy what really speaks to you without price differentials getting in the way so much -- you can enjoy Patek as easily as Omega. And I don't know if it's the nature of owning reps, but they seem more involving because you have an ideal (trying to match the gen) that you're constantly trying to match them against. Some of the threads here have really made me think hard about what I want from a rep. In lots of ways it's a form of self-discovery. What appeals to you, what flaws can you live with, how afraid are you at being called out, how do you react if someone asks whether it's a fake, etc. I'm still early in my journey, having only ordered one rep several months ago. Unfortunately, it appears that it will be several more months before I'll ever get it (the WM9 Sea-Dweller 16600). So in the meantime, I'm looking around to see what else catches my eye. Thank you all for having built a wonderful community for all watch lovers!

Thanks for the warm welcome! Right now, I've got my eye on Rolex Subs/SD ... and maybe a Panerai in the future. But there's so much to learn ...

Question for all you lucky WM9v2 Sub owners: does your watch get sufficiently wound from normal daily activity? I've read that you need to be really active to keep a ladies automatic movement fully wound. The reason is detailed in the post below: Micro Rotors in Automatic Watches Posted by Walt A. on August 19, 1998: The physical measurements of the rotor have a profound effect on the winding efficiency of a watch. Many women complain about their Rolexes stopping at unpredictable times and frequently take the watches to jewelers with the hope of correcting an assumed manufacturing problem. In actual fact, it takes a very active woman to keep a small-sized ladies' automatic running reliably day after day. No mystery about it -- it's all in the physics. Consider this: Your wrist motion transfers kinetic energy from your hand to the rotor. The rotor temporarily stores this energy as rotational kinetic energy, then in turn transfers all its kinetic energy (via the winder gears) to potential energy stored in the form of mainspring tension. When the rotor stops, you know that ALL the energy from your wrist's last motion has been sent to the mainspring -- excepting a little loss to friction in the intervening gears. The kinetic energy of a rotor is given by: E = 1/2 I(w^2) where I is the MOMENT OF INTERTIA of the rotor and w is the rotor's angular velocity in radians per second. This is 2 pi (about 6.28) times the revolutions per second. The big issue here is the moment of inertia. Every tiny particle of mass comprising the rotor contributes to the rotor's moment of inertia about its pivot in proportion to the particle's mass (i.e., what it's made of) times THE SQUARE OF ITS DISTANCE from the pivot. So you can see how important physical size is to the rotor's ability to store and transfer kinetic energy. To get a good idea of this importance, consider that if we start with a 15mm rotor of a ladies' watch, say, scale it up perfectly by a factor of 2 in all dimensions, so that it is now a 30mm rotor, still made of the same material, the larger rotor will have a moment of inertia 32 TIMES (!) that of the smaller one. This also means that it can store up 32 times as much energy as the small one when it is spun up to a certain angular velocity. I believe Patek, Lange and a few other high-end manufacturers get away with using their mini-rotors because they have exemplary winding gear trains, almost free of friction and also use very dense (hence also expensive) materials, as Mycroft indicated. As for the rest of us 'peasants', we are better off with Krugerrand-sized rotors winding our hockey-puck-sized watches.

Hello all -- Been a watchlover ever since I was a little kid. Got my first rep over 20 years ago. Man, they were awful examples compared to those today, but I still loved them back then. My first was a black-faced Cartier dress watch that you could probably spot as a fake a mile away, but back then, my only other watch was a Swatch so I doubt I would've known any better. After all these years, I still love all kinds of watches. And having lurked for a long time on gen forums, I know that members here seem to have WAY more knowledge about both the real deal and replicas. Hope to learn and buy myself my first great rep!