automatico

Crowns...wear 'em if you got 'em!

Q...Why am I posting all  this watchjunk?

A...Because I have hunted two days for the escape wheel and train wheels for my 5500AK project. ..seven or eight hours total (while cleaning my 'shop' up a little).

I finally found the parts in one of my parts boxes, hiding in a small clear plastic cup inside a dental floss box!  Like a dumb-azz, I hid it from myself by putting it in the dental floss box.

Q..Why put the parts in the dental floss box?

A...To keep the lid from coming off the small plastic box containing the parts.  It has happened before.

Anyway, while digging through a bunch of stuff (including a bunch of crowns), some TC crowns turned up in the mix.

New Genuine...

They all are the older style for  watches made before the 'monobloc' crowns came out.  Some owners want the older style crowns to keep their watch like it was when new so I keep them for repairs.

Do not have any monobloc crowns or watches that came with them unless my 14010M AK has one.  I doubt it does because it has the old type bracelet with removable hoods.

Take offs...

Some good, some not so good.  I posted these once before iirc.

TC 'Trophy' Crowns...

These crowns are very good except the clutch springs sometimes get weak.

'Trophy' = they are getting hard to find so I figure I might win a Trophy for finding mine.   Ha!

I got them October 5, 2012.

No comment.

Happy Crown Day!  

Just for fun...not a wristie but two new old stockies...

Looks good!  One of my favorites.

I have one from 12 or 15 years back and found a 'cream' replica dial for it but never put it together.  The yellowed dials were on some of the first models with silvertone marker settings.  Mine is still 'nos' and has a swiss ETA but the wrong hand stack.

Genuine example:

Rolex 16550, Cream ‘Panna’ Dial Explorer II, Steel for C$59,886 for sale from a Seller on Chrono24

New for 2023...Titanium.

Running on Sun: A Second Look at the TAG Heuer Aquaracer Professional 200 Solargraph | WatchTime - USA's No.1 Watch Magazine

Replicas will not be far behind.

"I know it does not help in this case, but I ship anything of value via registered mail & give the tracking number to the receiver so both of us can track it all the way. Yes, registered mail is very slow because every single person who takes possession of the package must sign for it & note the time/date the package was in their possession & the package is kept in locked containers when not in a mail employee's possession, but I have never lost a package using this shipping method."

That is how RWC used to send watches to USA ADs up into the late 1990s. 

All my AD friends have moved on, retired etc. so I do not know how it is done today.

Trebuchet maybe?

Ratty pic of my Aquinus 200M diver...

Took the Harley Ronda lady size 15.2mm X 18mm (6 3/4 X 8 ligne) movement out and put a 23.7mm (10.5 ligne) Seiko/Hattori (aka TMI) VH31A in it.  The H & M hand sizes were the same (1.20 and .70), but the SS hand tube had to be squeezed down a bit in a lathe collet.  The main hassle was the larger movement needed different movement spacers and had to be held to the dial by 'dial dots' while putting it all together.  Two of the spacers had to be sized by trial and error to hold it all in place using pressure from the case back when screwed down to clamp it all together...this is what took most of the time involved.  The VH31A is a little bit thicker than the HR and the stem mounts higher so the screw down crown needs some fiddling when screwing it down to keep from messing the threads up.  Luckily, there is some slack in the crown's telescoping stem tube and that helps a lot.  All considered, it came out Ok and ticks 14,400 times an hour instead of 3600. 

Cost of the conversion was about $12 or $15, plus still have the 'semi new' HR movement.

Seiko Instruments (SII) VH31 / VH31A watch movement | Caliber Corner

Generic rubber strap and clasp.  The watch came with a heavy steel bracelet.

Someone else put some watches up, I'm looking like a Post Hog!

"Damm the 5513 is stolen in transit to his owner!"

I know how you feel. 

A few years ago, I lost three brand new watches in one whack to the USPS.  I ran the culprit down (it was the mailman), but the USPS would not do anything about it.  They stick together.

Lost two new steel quartz chronographs August 2022 thanks to UPS.  I was notified the package was delivered 'to front porch 3:53pm'.  The delivery guy must have been a ghost because he did not show up on our cameras.  The delivery notice also claimed the package weighed 14.9 pounds.  One point nine pounds maybe, including B/P.  Filed reports to UPS.  No response at all.  Went to UPS depot.  Not allowed to enter.

UPS = Usually the Package is Stolen.

Rlx 6605 from 1956...

Cal 1065, 25 jewels, roulette date disc, 'Pie Pan' service dial.  Originals had radium lume.

No dial feet, a spacer snaps on the movement and the dial snaps on the spacer.

The dial holds the date disc in place, unlike later 15xx models.  It can be very aggravating.

Note, March 4, 2023:

Everything in the movement is in fine condition and the winding rotor bearing is like new (it may have been replaced).  The rotor bearing is the Achilles' heel of these movements and almost impossible to find now (p/n 7004).  There is a tiny punch mark at the end of the movement serial number indicating the 'sole' of the autowind assembly (small brass plate holding the reverser in place) has been updated with a steel spacer to prevent wear, along with a new type of reverser sometime during service.  The previous owner took good care of the watch before I bought it in March 2007 and I bought it because the price was reasonable.  Looking back, it was a good deal even if parts have just about disappeared since then.

Swiss Jubilee with 55 hoods also dated 1956...

Michael Young in HK worked on the bracelet in August 2007 ($160 USD back then), and it looks better than my lousy pic.  

The watch is in good condition to be 67 years old and since most of the movement parts are no longer available, it is basically a 'special occasion' watch today.

The downside (other than no parts) is it looks very much like a 16xx DJ and very few would notice it was a 'historically memorable classic'.  Or care.  

It looks very good!  Also saved some $$.

"So I decided to take an old Case with gen specification that I found in my drawer."

I kept a few 'Abay' cases from 15 or 18 years ago and the main cases and case backs are very good. 

Bezels/crystals/crowns/tubes are not good but genspec crystals/bezels/tubes etc. will fit.

I did not appreciate them back then but now with $800+ 'hit or miss' cases, they are pretty darn good.

Low mileage Rolex 6694 from 1979/1980, all original, never been apart.

'Tin Can' racer and a '55 Chevrolet... 

Chevrolet front fender emblem is from one of my long gone '55 Chevrolets.

1955 chevy assembly line - YouTube

Another Tin Can racer and a Ford F100...

'Flatheads Forever'

"The date window in the dial is made for the date to show at 4 instead of 3. " I don't follow. on my dial the day date shows at 3, and the crown is at 3.8. not sure what you mean?"

My mistake!   I was thinking the day and date were at the 4 o'clock position, not the crown.

The dial mounting feet are placed on the dial so the dial mounts with the day and date at 3 and allows for the crown at 4. 

The crown being at 4 is determined by the case.

I will change the incorrect answer in yesterday's reply in case someone thinks I know what I am talking about and makes a mistake because of it.  

In my experience, there are very few replica rolex watches that will pass as genuine almost every time.

Your Daytonas are in that category.

I have one (and only one) that will pass almost every time and I got it from 'Stilty' just before he left the replica arena, a 15200 OPD.  It has all genuine exterior parts...dial, hands, complete case, crown, date wheel, worn case back decal etc.  It also has a genuine rolex strap with an aftmkt steel rolex buckle with one tiny flaw...

The watch is powered by a nos Mido/ETA 12892 movement.  The tell is the time sets opposite of a 3135.

I can take no credit, it is entirely Stilty's creation.  

"Does this mean there are 2 different variants of movements with different mounting points, or do the dial mounting posts do the job of getting the crown to either 3 or 3.8 o'clock?  This is unclear."

The movements are the same.  The date window in the dial is made for the day and date to show at 3. 

The crown being at 4 rather than three is allowed for by the dial foot mounting position on the dial.

"Is there any higher end day date movement from miyota or chinese?"

Yes, the Miyota 9015 for example but it is thinner than the 82xx and I do not know if a dial for the 82xx will fit a 9015.  The 90xx series has a day and date movement.

Miyota Caliber 9015 Watch Movement | Caliber Corner

"I can't use an 8215 style since I have day - date window on my dial (like 8200 and 8205)."

List of Miyota Watch Movements Watch Movement | Caliber Corner

Corrections made 2-15-2023 

Finished the project 1002 'explorer' this afternoon.  Everything worked Ok except for having to cut the calendar drive wheel off the hour wheel so it would not rub the dial and stop the movement.  Other than that, the tube on the second hand is a little bit short but as long as the hand stays on, it will be Ok.  It runs fine and I'll wear it a few days and see how it goes.  It looks exactly like the other 1002 'explorer' I stuck together in May 2014 (Raff bezel, Yuki dial etc.) except this case was made in 1962 and has a 1575 date movement with the date works removed and the other case was made in 1964 and has a no date 1560 in it.  I robbed the strap and .925 silver buckle off the first one and put it on this watch so I can wear it.  

I had to cut a couple hundredths mm out of the ID of a Raffles 34mm tudor bezel for this watch when using the GS PA459-37 crystal.  Most rolex type acrylic crystals will be smaller at the top and quite a bit bigger at the bottom where the bezel clamps down over it, so the bezel seemed to fit Ok, but when I went through the procedure below, the bezel needed to be cut a bit.

If the bezel is too tight, the crystal can crack and you might not see it because the bezel usually covers the crack.  This is a common problem, especially with project watches and is something to look out for.

Fitting an acrylic rolex type crystal...

Measure the ID of the bezel in two or three places and write it down, a few hundredths mm +/- is Ok but if it is out of round very much, it will be hard to get an accurate measurement.

Next. push the crystal down on the watch case by hand and measure the OD at the top and at the bottom of the crystal in two or three places and write them down.  The crystal should be a light press fit by hand...too tight and the crystal skirt may crack.  If it is loose on the case, measure it by the method below and usually the bezel will tighten it up.

If possible, always use a metal digital caliper for measuring, and when measuring the bottom of the crystal on the case, squeeze the caliper jaws tightly against the skirt of the crystal next to the case and check the measurement in two or three places.  Be sure to squeeze the caliper by pinching the jaws where they contact the crystal...not by tightening the adjustment wheel.  Sometimes a crystal will squeeze down .10 or more when measuring it at the base and this can result in a leaky crystal if it is not allowed for.  Worse than that, the crystal and bezel both can get knocked off by hitting a door frame etc.

What's next?

Probably a 1962 tutone AK 5501 'explorer'.  It has been in the 'fixit box' since November 2005.  The case and movement are in good condition, but it has a ratty refinished dial with a dent in it.  Dent?

It will need c/o, mainspring, crystal, dial, hands, case tube, crown, crystal etc..  The regular rolex tune-up...about $1000 at the friendly rolex store.  

Btw, I paid $450 for the watch.

Wrist Time.

'Explorer' 1002 #2...

Wall Time.

Wooden Ray-Ban advertising clock, probably from 1970s...

Sterling silver (.925) buckle on the 1002 from a watch show 20+ years ago...

2-9-2023

Another useless FYI...for anyone who wants to change a rolex 1565/1575 date movement to a no date model for use in a no date case, here are a few things you might need to know...

1...You can almost always get by with the regular date center wheel, canon pinion, and hour wheel.  The only thing this really does is raise the hands about .5mm.  This is usually Ok and it will make a little bit more room between the hands and dial...domed acrylic crystals are almost always high enough to accommodate it.

No date hour wheel is 1.27mm high.  

Date hour wheel is 1.80mm.

The canon pinion (the minute hand tube) rises up out of the hour wheel just enough for the minute hand to mount so the overall result is raising all of the hands aka 'hand stack' a little over .5mm, depending on how close the second hand is to the minute hand.  There is almost always room under acrylic crystals.  No guarantees.

On MBK cases for example (all of mine anyway), you need to use a rolex 15xx date movement with the date works removed because the cases are made for date movements with the calendar wheel spacer left on the movement.  This is done when using a no date dial, 5512/5513 for example.  This is easy because you only need to remove the actual date works.  Nothin' to it.

There is always a catch (or two) when using a date 15xx movement on genuine spec Ruby etc. cases made for rolex 15xx no date movements and dials.

Q...Like what?

A...You need to remove the calendar wheel axle (the little post with the left-hand thread, round, slotted nut on it).

Q...Why?

A...Because the calendar wheel post hits the bottom of the dial and the dial will not fit down against the movement, because it hits the post.

Q...How to remove it?

A...Pull it out with a small pin vice by twisting and pulling up on it.

But there is always another catch...

Q...What is it this time?

A...The date movement hour wheel has a wheel (gear) on top of it that drives the calendar wheel.

Q...So what?

A...It usually rubs the bottom of the dial when the calendar wheel spacer has been removed and locks the movement down...usually.

Q...What can be done about it?

A1...Space the dial away from the movement with 'dial dots' etc.  It works but is a crude fix.

A2...Grind the extra wheel off somehow.  

Q...How?

A...Superglue the hour wheel to a small steel rod that fits inside the hour wheel, put it in a lathe, and cut the wheel away.  Nothin' to it.

Q...What if I do not have a damn lathe?

A1...Superglue the hour wheel on a piece of steel rod and spin it by hand against a Cratex type grinding wheel mounted on a Dremel tool etc.  Carefully.

A2...Mount the steel rod in the Dremel tool with the hour wheel superglued to it, and spin it against a medium grit grinding stone etc.  Carefully.  Less chance of screw-ups using this method.

Q...How do I get the hour wheel 'unglued' from the steel rod?

A...Acetone, same as you use to remove your nail polish.    

After all the pitfalls above are defeated, place the hour wheel on the movement, put the dial on the watch (making sure it seats against the movement), tighten the dial screws, and see how much slack there is between the hour wheel and bottom of the dial by lifting the hour wheel up against the dial with tweezers.  A tiny bit is Ok...too much and the hour wheel can come out of mesh and get the hands out of correspondence.

Q...What is the fix this time?

A...A dial washer.

Nothin' to it.  

I cut the calendar drive wheel off a 1575 date hour wheel to use on a no date project with a date movement a while ago.  Here is what the hour wheel looks like after the calendar drive wheel is cut off:

The hour wheel is superglued to a .85mm drill bit (on the smooth end) and clamped in a 'WW' collet.  It will look better after it is cleaned up.  Grinding the wheel off gives the same result if no lathe is available.  This is the same movement that was in my 'shortcut 1655', it came out of a 1603 DJ and this is the hour wheel from it.

Or you can use a no date center wheel, CP, and hour wheel ($$), but you still need to remove the calendar wheel post.

CITIZEN 7 restoration with watch movement Miyota 8200 | service PART 2 - YouTube

Servicing Japanese Movement Miyota 8205 part 1 of 3 - disassemble / แกะเครื่องญี่ปุ่น Miyota 8205 - YouTube

"I disassembled the movement from the back side taking the bridge plate off."

" I didn't realize that getting the bridge plate back on with all the wheels aligned would be so difficult..."

I know what you mean, these movements are a hassle to put together because of the train wheels, escape wheel, and reverser all crammed under one plate.   I detest them.  The easiest way is to remove the balance assembly first as this leaves more room, then put the movement together and install the balance last.  The downside is when r/r the balance, you risk tweaking the hairspring. 

"...is it unique part number only for this movement?" 

Yes, unless China clone parts will fit.

"i should try to see if i can find a watchmaker who has the missing part..." 

In my experience, unless you know a friendly watch repair guy, you could get robbed. 

This is harsh advice, but sometimes true, especially today with fewer repair guys around who are willing to help someone out.

You could buy a China clone of the Miyota 8200 (plus a 'no name' dial/cheap set of hands) and practice, practice, practice until you get the hang of disassembly/assembly if you want to learn how to work on one.  Then buy a new 8215 or repair yours and install it.  

China clone parts might fit the Miyota...but you would be paying $20+ for the parts when a complete new Miyota 2015 is only $10 more.

Some China clones are pretty good, depending on brand, prior handling etc.  The better clones are DG (Dixmont Guangzhou) or NN (Nanning) but the brands are usually not specified.  

Otoh, some are pretty bad too, it's luck of the draw.

When buying a replacement movement, be sure it is a 'Miyota 8215'  NOT  'Movement for Miyota 8215.'

Examples:

China clone...eBay item number: 394408095202     $20.15

Miyota 8215...eBay item number:293795133957    $29.99

Imho the Miyota is a better deal, but you still need to be able to r/r dials and hands without damage.  This requires practice, practice, practice.  And patience.

"I was thinking of getting a 1mm stamp kit and try my hand at adding my own markings but I think that would end up in a disaster...but in my mind's eye it would look better than the chinsy laser etching."

A friend engraved a few cases for me using an old Hermes pantograph engraving machine and they all came out fine.  It takes a while and most of the time is spent on setting it up...mounting and centering the case in the machine etc.  Many jewelry stores that have been in business for a long time will have one along with many hobby guys who bought one for not much $$.  The correct font is easy to find because it is a basic design.  

You might ask around and see if anyone you know has one or knows someone who does.

Using an Older Flat Engraving Pantograph. - Bing video

"Where did you get that picture of me?"

Saw it on a news stand, the face looked familiar.  Ha!

I never was a National Enquirer fan, but I look at the covers...mostly UFOs landing in back yards etc.  Now it's Harry, Meghan and of course Bigfoot.   It has been a familiar magazine in one form or another in supermarket checkout lanes for as long as I can remember.

"The National Enquirer is still in business. It was originally founded by William H. Hearst in 1926 and is one of the oldest and most successful tabloids in the United States. Over 95 years in business, the Enquirer has changed owners and has gone through several rebranded versions, including the Star, the Globe, and the National Examiner"

"That 1016 mk2 was something I whipped up for a member next door.

raffles case with acrylic crystal swap

ruby mk2 dial 

ruby hands - aged lume to match dial 

Ruby bracelet

asian eta 2824 

and a subtle amount of aging to the case desk diver safe queen."

All the dials I got from Raffles have been very good, but they were mostly unsigned project dials.  Got two '1016' dials a couple years ago and they were pretty good except they are a little bit oversized for oem spec cases...Raffles are 28.5mm and genuine 1016 is 27.9mm.  It looks like their cases are very good too, may have to get a couple for the dials.

The dial of unknown exact origin in my '1016' project is pretty good but the letters do not 'jump', they are a bit subdued/faded.  It is Ok for an 'older' vintage watch I guess.

 "$1,300 for a few vintage Rolex parts. Crazy -- but this time next year, crazy will have been a bargain."

Yeah.  If you can find one at all a year from now.

I bought two sets 1575 GMT center wheel with cp and hour wheel, without any GMT calendar wheels (pn 8034) a few years back and they were somewhere around $200 for two sets.  The 8034 GMT calendar wheel is hard to find today.  The $1300 kit is basically enough for a conversion plus you may need to space the calendar ring up a little bit.

Why?

Because the GMT calendar ring is about .10mm thicker than a regular 1575 date ring to make space between the 24 hour wheel and dial.  A friend cut some 4 mil (very close to .10mm) circles out of Mylar on a decal plotter that sticks to the ring to raise it up.  Works fine and saves $$.

I did not use an 8021 GMT calendar wheel on the 'shortcut 1655'.  The GMT kit for $1300 on eBay has the 8021 calendar wheel but does not have a GMT calendar ring (pn 8037).  

Sometimes they work Ok without the thicker calendar ring and sometimes not. 

After proof reading all this mumbo-jumbo a couple times, it sounds like 18 month old kid gibberish.

An 18 month old kid that's been hittin' the prescription cough syrup.    

Typos are free.

Buddhabar:

"I'll put you a link where maybe you can find the solution."

Thanks!  Probably get a set...after a few paydays.  Ha!

Good 1655 hand set recently listed on eBay, looks the same as J&W:

eBay item number:234857548399

Also has basic GMT conversion kits:

eBay item number:234535951473

"I like how it's coming together."

Thanks!

"...you may need to enlarge the ID of the bezel slightly."

I have a few generic T-11 (GS PA459-37) with rounded outer edges and that is what I am going with.  Seems like the Raff bezel will fit.

Later T-12 crystals have sharp outer edges.

"I would go with the gilt gloss yuki dial   AFAIK  all matte dial 5500's are rep..."

I have not decided for sure which dial will be used but the dials with goldtone letters have better detail.  Otoh, I am not a big fan of steel watches with goldtone markers...but I see quite a few steel 16xx, 160xx DJ, 6694, manual wind no dates etc. with goldtone markers on the 'net.  I have also seen a few 5500 AK/1002 'explorers' on eBay with goldtone markers and most of them had gold bezels and crowns.  The 1002 also came in a tutone version so an 'explorer' dial with goldtone letters would be quasi-legal along with gold bezel/crown.  Sorta.

The jury is still out.

I need to save the best goldtone letter dial for a 5501 AK and the gloss and matte dials are about the same in detail.

I read that almost all of the 5500 AK with explorer dials were sold in the UK.  True or not?  Probably true.  I do not remember seeing them at watch shows when I attended shows in the 1990s, mostly in the southern and eastern USA.  Burley Bullock (rip) and a few others changed the wristwatch landscape during this time with radio ads, formation of the IWJG etc.  Then the internet, eBay etc. changed it again.

"Did you do the movement service?"

Yes, c/o, mainspring, rotor axle etc. and a friend put a new balance staff in it.  It took 2 or 3 weeks soaking the main plate in white vinegar to melt all the rust away so the stem would come out of the plate.  I painted over any critical steel parts pressed in the plate with nail polish every few days.  The main plate screws that hold the various bridges to the main plate were rusty and I replaced them with near identical stainless steel screws from an assortment of stainless case back screws.  A few others were also replaced.  I have original screws but did not want to use them on a 'battleground movement'.  The three blued screws that hold the autowind assembly to the movement were still Ok. 

All in all, it is a pretty good movement, it just looks bad, and it runs much better than it looks. 

It is a lot like the movement in my '1016 explorer' project with a movement made out of a combination of well used ETA 2824/36 and 2846 parts.  It is one of the best running ETAs I've owned.  One other ETA that runs like the 'explorer' is in a 1990s/early 2000s Marathon CCG SAR.

Marathon Coast Guard (broadarrow.net)

 Ball 999B...

"Wow...you got a good deal...."
 

Yeah, I did pretty good on that one.  It needs one tiny screw for the 'whiplash' regulator, c/o...and a dial.

Hampden McKinley pocket watch info:

hampden wm.mckinley | NAWCC Forums