automatico

If you plan to press flat mineral glass and sapphire crystals into cases with plastic crystal gaskets and/or rolex types with bezels pressed down over gaskets or crystals...a press with metal cups is better because plastic cups will distort and not press crystals/bezels down flat and level causing chipped mg/saph crystals or scratched sidewalls on acrylic crystals.

For pressing casebacks on and light work the plastic cups will work fine.

Tapered plastic cups are also good for mounting snap in type acrylic crystals...GS PHD type etc.

A press like pictured in post #4 has small posts that do not offer much support to the cups...it is fine for light jobs though.

When broaching an old style case tube, be careful not to cut any more metal from inside the tube than needed for the crown to pass in and out of setting/winding position and set/wind the watch without binding. If you remove too much metal, the tube may break if you bump the crown on a door frame etc.

A 'cutting broach' has splines for removing metal.

A 'smoothing broach' has no splines, they are smooth for finishing jewel holes etc.

No need to smooth broach a case tube unless it has rough spots or needs a very slight bit more clearance. It is good practice of course but very few go to the trouble.

"I think its because we point out the slightest mistakes and then want a different watch 5 times and its a pain for the dealer."

"You are paying the money, do whatever you want as long as you are not being an a**."

"What I find bizarre about the QC issue is that obviously there is no way of determining whether the photo shown the customer will in fact be the watch that is actually shipped by the dealer. So what is the point of asking forum members what they think of a specific photo?"

"The critical eye of members of this forum will always find something wrong with a rep dial. But in fact there can be, and are errors or misalignment issues even with gen watches."

All the above are very good points. I am not as particular as many but I would have a problem with something that is not easily fixed...dial blemishes, bad printing, case/bracelet damage, wrong type of clasp, wrong bracelet, etc and this usually shows up on 'QC' photos so they do have a purpose assuming you get the watch in the pictures.

As for 'going public' with the 'QC' photos...if it was me, I would take the watch if it looked Ok to me in the 'QC' photos, then post pictures of what I got vs the 'QC' photos if there was a cosmetic problem. Mechanical problems can not be seen and many times may have been caused by handling.

The better the watches get, the more perfection is expected.

The statement below sums it up and in reality we must accept it whether we want to or not:

"IMO buying reps on line is a crap shoot, but then so is buying a gen online."

I have rolled craps quite a few times. 

"I have a couple of datejust cases 16014 etc. Can a gen air king dial fit them?"

No, The AK dial is a hair too small.

You might be able to use a replica 34mm tudor case like the cases used for replica Rangers etc, the AK dial might work in one of them.

quick set dials for 3035/3135 DJ in 36mm cases = 27.8mm

34mm 5500 AK = 27.0mm

34mm no date op = 27.0mm

34mm opd 1500 = 26.9mm

34mm tudor date replica with Eta 28xx = 27.0mm (for this particular case)

note on the 1500 dial:

This is an older model with embossed markers and newer models with applied markers might be 27.0mm, I did not check a later model dial.

Is 34mm really too small?

Nah. I like 'em just fine.

Otoh...

Maybe all the replica AK in 36mm cases were ahead of their time.    

This is common knowledge but it might help...

Some rolex cases and aftmkt cases use screws with flat top shoulders and some use angled shoulders. If the movement in a watch with flat top screws will not turn in the case (with the screws turned all the way down), try angled head screws.

Most genuine and many aftmkt cases are made with a cutout at 9 o'clock so the movement can be put into the case with both case screws installed (screwed all the way down)...one screw goes down into the case where the case tube is and the opposite screw goes down into the case where the cutout is at 9. After the movement is seated, it should turn in the case to the correct position for the stem to line up.

If there is no cutout at 9, you will have to either install the screws at the case tube cutout one at a time or have one screw in the movement and allow this screw to go past the case tube cutout, then turn the movement around and install the other screw.

If the movement will not turn or is very hard to turn in the case...determine if it is the case screws that are the trouble...sometimes they will bind in the groove in the case, maybe because you are using flat top screws where angle head screws are needed (angle heads are thinner). If you force the movement to turn inside the case it might rub paint off the dial or break the dial feet.

Every time you turn the movement/dial in the case you are slightly scuffing the dial so check for dust, lint etc before you turn the movement.

Make sure the dial is seated on the movement before tightening the dial screws down because if there is space between the dial and movement it might make a dimple in the dial when the case screws are tightened, forcing the dial down against the movement.

Make sure there are enough threads on the case screws to allow the screws to back out against the groove in the case without running out of threads...this may strip the top thread on the movement or allow the screw to come loose between the movement and case and wedge the movement in place.

Make sure the dial screws are not too long or they might bend the dial etc when screwed all the way down.

On aftmkt cases, make sure there is ample clearance between the winding rotor and caseback after casing the movement. You can put a thin piece of Rodico on top of the center of the rotor and screw the caseback down, then remove it to see how thick the Rodico is. You can check clearance at the edge of the rotor the same way but the Rodico has to be very thin so there is no undue pressure on the outer edge of the rotor.

You can also put a thin piece of paper etc between the outer edge of the rotor and the mvt plate to keep the rotor from tilting over. The trouble with this is if there is not enough room between the caseback and rotor...it may force the rotor to turn and shred the paper etc or push it into the balance assembly.

I have seen more than one watch that would not run after installing the movement because the ss hand was too long and rubbed the outer edge of the case or it rubbed the underside of the crystal.

Turn the case screws down against the movement and it runs...back the case screws out to hold the movement in place and it stops. Wtf??

You never know what's next.  

B3nj4min3 has some very good points, especially:

"Finally, I haven't found gen's to be a particularly prudent investment."

I found this to be true.

The only good watch 'investments' I made were watches bought 30 years ago and sold recently or solid gold models bought when gold was $300US+/- per troz plus a few vintage rolex watches that I stumbled on over the years when they were not worth much.

After what I said above, I will also say...if you buy a genuine watch, buy one that you:

(1) like 

(2) can find parts for

(3) will be fairly easy to sell if the time comes when you need $$

I am always harping on parts but many genuine watch owners have no idea how hard it is to find parts today, it is sometimes nearly impossible or too expensive to be worthwhile.

Fine looking watch!

"Also observe how thin is the case, rep case are too thick..."

I have noticed this too.

I measured a couple DW cases, a 5513 is about 5.25mm thick at the center of the case on crown and 9 o'clock sides (mid case only, no back).

DW 1680 is 5.6mm thick at the crown and 9 o'clock side (mid case only, no back).

MBK 5513/1680 (same case) is 5.15mm thick at the center of the case on the crown side and 4.95mm on the 9 o'clock side (mid case only, no back).

Older 'Paul/Abay/WoMart' 5514 and 1665 cases are 5.65mm on both sides (same basic cases with hev, both had Eta 2836).

All cases are same as new and unworn.

Do not have a genuine case to measure.

"re-finishing the sides and the case to remove tooling marks is possibly the bane of my existence"

Cratex!

http://www.newmantools.com/cratex/index.html

I have stuck a few applied markers and coronet emblems on genuine watches over the years.

I have stuck a LOT of replica markers back on and sometimes just the luminous stuff when it falls out of the marker.

I wonder how an Oris AD could get by with having no Oris stock at all. If they were a real Oris AD, it looks like they would at least have a couple watches that were ordered for tire kickers that did not sell.

Maybe they get Oris watches from a real Oris AD and the reason they boast about a 'no obligation' policy is that they just send the watch back to the AD if it does not sell.

Final score:

You...1

Dealer...0 

Our store sells all brands and models!

But we do not have anything in stock at this time.

"I think you are missing the point here. The benefit of the yuki 3135 is that gen parts can be used. The ETA clone 3135 has been around for a while, but if you have to clip dial feet and use aftermarket hands why bother?"

The problem is always parts. No parts = a doa movement sooner or later.

Yuki etc 3135 clone parts are n/a. Very few genuine parts will work other than date wheels/dials.

Etaclone parts are n/a and not all genuine Eta parts will work on an Etaclone.

Genuine Eta parts are plentiful and affordable.

"I believe the 1560 and 1570 are the same size."

They are exactly the same size.

Different escapements...18000 vs 19800.

Btw...the gold cap cases are about 80 microns of gold and the bezels are solid gold.

"Like Panerai said take it back and get it exchanged, not serviced but a new replacement."

+1

If it is a Dud to start with...it may be a Dud from now on.

A Wise Man once said:

Go Eta or Go Broke.  

He also said:

No Date = No Trouble.   

A guy just bought the best hearing aid in the world...

He came out of the audiologist's office and was walking down the street when he met a friend.

He said:  "Hey, I just got the best hearing aid in the world, it cost me $6000!"

The friend said:  "What kind is it?"

The hearing aid guy said:  "What did you say?"

The friend said:  "WHAT KIND IS IT?"

The hearing aid guy looked at his watch and said:  "It's about 3:15."    

The cases and bracelets on these watches are top grade but the movements are to put it mildly...junk.

I have worked on a few.

One quote:

"In 1968, the Omega 1000 series calibres came into this world with what are said to be significant birth defects."

If this watch was mine, I would sell it because of the movement but I would hold out for top price because of overall condition and the fact it is a dive style watch. Most 'collectors' do not know or care about the Omega cal 1020 and buy a watch because of the case/bracelet/dial.

http://users.tpg.com.au/mondodec//Movement4.pdfa

Check the 'bin' price on this non diver Cosmic on eBay, item number:  360542865727

(!!!!!!!!!!!)

"I'm not aware of anyone repping the crown and there are a few rep tubes around, but those you have look gen to me."

They look good to me too. I say this because I have not seen a replica crown with a crimped cap skirt. All the replicas I have seen had a one piece cap or a steel cap pressed over a base metal frame, but not crimped like genuine.

I have been wrong before though.

"But i still think that a lot of the modded stuff on here looks like its been attacked with a blow torch!"

+1

'Naturally' aging:

Dial...put it on top of a fence post sealed in a fruit jar out in the hot sun for the summer.

Case/bracelet...carry the case/bct around in a jeans pocket with change etc for a few weeks.

...or let your wife/gf wear it for a couple days with the dial/mvt replaced by a picture of your ex.  

"Quick question, will a 3035 movement fit the newer no pin holes case (e.g. 16200) ?"

No.

Why?

The 3035 stem will not center in a 16200 etc case tube because the 3035 movement is approx .4mm taller from stem centerline to top of dial (same dials are used on 3035 and 3135).

A 16200 etc case can be modified (machine metal away from the dial seat inside the case) to accept a 3035 but then the second hand rubs the sapphire crystal.

If you shorten the ss tube to lower the ss hand, the ss hand will rub the minute hand.

If you lower the minute hand it will hit applied markers, hour hand etc, etc.

A 3035 will fit into a modified 16200 etc case as mentioned above without much hand lowering/bending etc by using an actylic 135 crystal but you would not really gain much by changing cases.

I know this because I machined a 16234 case for this modification in 1995 (16234 iirc).

Quick questions sometimes require complicated answers. 

"how big a faux pas is it to wear the 7836 on a watch that came 10-20+ years before it?"

Nothing wrong with it imho.

I bought a 6605 made III 1959 a while back and it came with a modern style jubilee on it. The owner bought the watch new when he was in the Air Force and when it needed a bracelet, he bought what was available at the time.

I have seen a lot of older watches with modern style bracelets on them.

"Just snagged a Phong midcase/caseback, yuki hev, and clarks bezel assembly/crystal from fellow member..."

I am looking at a Clark's bezel kit on my DW '5513' and it has a lower profile than the bezel pictured on the watch.

I have two more off the watch and they have the same low profile.

It all looks good though.   

"Please explain to me why a pepsi insert is worth $1300?"

I know what you mean.

It is amazing to me that old faded out rolex dials, inserts, hands etc are worth so much. I think it is because so many of today's vintage sporty rolex owners try to look like the Tuff Guys that actually wore this stuff in the 1960s and 1970s...therefore the watches have to look the part.

Maybe not, but that's my guess.

(sporty rolex = 'tool watch')

Anyway, I paid less than $1000 for my last genuine 1675...faded pepsi bezel, bracelet and all.

...and the one before that, also sporting a faded pepsi bezel and a broken balance staff was $325.

The last new genuine pepsi insert I bought was $35.

Genuine vintage relax watches are out of reach for me now. It's Frankenstein or Nothingstein.

Maybe I am living in the past.

...or maybe I am a replicant. 

Question of the day...

Once you claim to be a replicant, can you recant? 

"depending on the shape (how polished) the case is, enlarging the lugholes to 1,2mm is not always possible"

+1 from experience

(but I went to 1.3mm)

"...do you know the height of the sapphire bezel for the 16200?"

The 30.4 to 30.45mm id figures above were from memory and were for solid gold bezels so I dug a few steel and gold bezels out and measured them:

two used genuine 16200 steel engine turned bezels:

2.3mm high x 30.5mm id x 34.5mm od

2.35mm high x 30.5mm id x 34.45mm od

two used genuine 16000 steel engine turned bezels:

2.0mm high x 30.5mm id x 34.75mm od

2.0mm high x 30.5mm id x 34.9mm od

two used genuine 16200 smooth steel bezels:

2.33mm high x 30.5mm id x 34.4mm od

2.35mm high x 30.5mm id x 34.5mm od

two used genuine 18kyg fluted 16234 etc bezels:

2.33mm high x 30.45mm id x 34.3mm od (4.9 grams)

2.35mm high x 30.45mm id x 34.3mm od

two used 18kyg smooth 16233 etc bezels:

2.3mm high x 30.45mm id x 34.4mm od (4.9 grams)

2.33mm high x 30.45mm id x 34.4mm od

two used genuine 18kyg fluted bezels for qs acrylic DJ 16013 etc:

1.9mm high x 30.48mm id x 34.35mm od (3.3 grams)

1.95mm high x 30.47mm id x 34.4mm od

two new genuine 18kyg fluted bezels for 16013 DJ etc:

2.0mm high x 30.4mm id x 34.0mm od (3.3 grams)

2.04mm high x 30.45mm id x 34.2mm

one 18k 'bark' bezel from 18kyg sapphire DD:

2.48mm high x 30.45mm id x 34.3mm od (5.5 grams)

two new 18kyg aftmkt 16234 etc fluted bezels:

2.33 high x 30.45mm id x 34.48mm od (4.9 grams)

2.62 high (!!) x 30.45mm id x 34.25mm od (5.6 grams)

The new 18kyg aftmkt bezels are die struck and finely finished same as genuine. The 2.33mm high bezel is ST, the other is unknown.

All genuine gold bezels have rolex coronets stamped on the bottom side.

All other gold bezels are like new so gold weight and measurements are accurate.

All ss bezels are like new so measurements are accurate.

All measurements made with Mitutoyo CD-6"P digital caliper.

All gold weight measurements made by an Ohaus Emerald series scale...accurate but not certified for trade purposes.

All typos are free. 

The 16200 steel bezel ID is 30.4 - 30.45mm. They are sometimes not exactly round after a few press ons and pry offs.

Bezels for a 16000 and 16200 are very close to the same ID...the case necks are just about the same od too.

The 16200 sapphire bezel is taller than a bezel for a 16000.

A 16000 bezel may be too low to properly cover the crystal gasket when used on a sapphire crystal.

You can get by with a sapphire bezel on a 16000 case with an acrylic crystal as long as the angle on top of the crystal is fully above the bezel.

You can also sand the bezel down on a flat surface to thin it down a little. Sanding a small angle on the bottom of the bezel can help start the bezel over the gasket.

If the bezel goes on unevenly it can cut the gasket and it may not show until it leaks.

A sapphire crystal and bezel will fit a 16000 case but the second hand will probably rub the crystal.

The dial on a 16000 mounts higher in the case than the dial on a 16200.

All 16000 cases use regular 6.0mm case tubes.

All the 16200 cases I have seen used 5.3mm case tubes.

A 16000 case has a flat caseback gasket and a 16200 case has a round section caseback gasket...they will not interchange.

A 3135 will not fit in a 16000 case and a 3035 will not fit in a 16200 case...without machine work etc.

etc, etc...