801run

Great review rangers158! Thanx! I have the same rep, and one of my pushers is loose. To get the pusher real tight you have to open the watch, remove the movement and hold the pusher screw inside the case at the same time as screwing the pusher back on from outside. I noticed pretty quick that there is no way the movement and the dial will come out through the back =) .. I'm not sure how to remove the bezel from the top, is it screwed or is it snapped-on? Hope you can help me out! Did you manage to remove the bezel without the sapphire popping out? Thanx a lot! /801run

Yes, margin wasn't the right word there of course, I'm sure the margin is huge. What I meant is that it prolly have to be huge to get a decent ROI, taking in mind RnD, advertising and all that. Ok well, there might be rep cars .. but I doubt that Ferrari has anyway near the same problem with rep cars as e.g. Breitling have with rep watches .. what I'm trying to say I guess is that I can really understand that this whole rep scene is a huge problem for the luxury brands, and it's probably not getting easier for them either, with better and better reps and the scene growing larger and larger. Which I think is good of course =) just hope they survive, but they will ..

This is a major problem for the luxury business (watches, clothes etc etc) I think, they might not have big margins on their sales because they do so much more than just the product itself, they have to keep the status of the brand name up, advertising etc etc. This is a problem since the complexity, production cost etc of the actual product itself does not match the very high price of it. Just the fact that their products CAN be made for 1/200th the price and look the same, feel the same and even have the same properties and materials (well, not completely true always obviously, but often very close to it) would seem ridiculous in any other market. I mean, you don't find a replicated 200 grand car (any brand) for 1 grand or even anywhere close, simply because no one can do it, the materials, parts, technology etc used is complicated and costs a lot of money. I'm not saying their products are not complex, but hey, maybe they've chosen the wrong type of product for their market then, the majority of their customers are probably not interested at all about exactly whats inside the watch, what they can't see. They want the looks and the correct behaviour of the watch. But besides the product itself, what you get when you buy luxury is a piece of the status they have worked so hard for. Sadly for them, this status is too easy to steal and use in arbitrary products. Their price might not a problem, status is not intended for everyone, just a few, people with money are willing to pay the price. But their status goes away when prices goes down and their brand gets to common, and no one wants to buy their stuff anymore simply because then it is just expensive, nothing more. Well, I'm not native english speaking, but you catch my drift. Anyway, personally I don't care about status, and I agree with most of you guys here on the forum, love this place! I'm simply crazy about watches .. lets just hope the luxury brands have good enough margins to survive the rep industry and continue to produce more of these lovely things Take care all! Regards

Thanx toad! Will check your guide and the toolkit, always nice to compare different kits to get the feeling for what tools you MUST have, and what you might be able to do without =) I'll buy the guides from offshore anyway, since you say there is more documentation to the ETA7750 guide and also since I'll then be supporting the forum. One thing I reacted on when stepping through the ETA7750 flash guide .. I always had the feeling that the balance wheel, balance spring and [censored] and all those parts of the balance would be the most tricky in (dis)assembling a movement. Don't know why I had that feeling since I've never taken a movement apart =) .. anyway, in the guide, the just lift out the whole balance as one piece, describing it as though you normally do not disassemble it? I wonder if it HAS to be disassembled in order to perform a good service, or if it can be simply cleaned and oiled as a whole, as they indicate in the flash guide when assembling the movement again. I will probably be able to read about that in the ETA7750 docs though. Cheers!

Thanx Rob. I'll probably skip the A21j then and go straight onto the 2836 with TZ course. When you say that the asian automatic models have this big honking bridge which make them hopeless, doesn't that include the A7750 also then? Or is the A7750 pretty similar to the ETA7750, so you would be able to follow the ETA guide at least for the most parts? How about the asian 2836, is that similar to the ETA2836 so I would be able to use that instead of the real deal when taking the TZ course, or does it also have this big honking bridge perhaps .. Thanx again for all info.

WOW! Amazing link tfbit! I've been looking around for something like that but never found it! Thank you very much!! Is this perhaps the same guide as the ETA7750 guide that offshore offers?

Yes, I understand that I have to get a feeling for it first, and I don't think I underestimate the complexity of the A7750, IF a try it, i will be prepared that I WILL destroy the movement. But since I really like this new hobby of mine I just might be prepared to buy an A7750 movement to try on, and when I fail I can at least use some of it for spare parts in the future (hopefully). I have an Asian 21j that I will start with, also perhaps buy the the ETA2836 and use that together with the TZ school to learn as well. But I also have the same feeling that you have, WHEN any of my A7750 watches die, THEN I will try it, it is as you say not a cheap movement just to toy with and I don't really need to do this now .. but in the same time, I've got the feeling that I will not be able to stop myself from this =) Also its a good feeling to know your movement has been oiled and hopefully will run for 5 years before reoiling instead of stopping after 1-2 years due to tear-down (someone said 1-2 years is probably what to expect with an unoiled A7750 movement, agree?). I need to get a bunch of tools though, I will probably go for most of the tools in the TZ toolkit. However, I think you don't need to cough up $90 for the Bergeon screwdriver set, I can get good screwdrivers for a lot less than $90, also $50 for two Bergeon tweezers seem a little much, so there has to be some money to save at least for the "standard" tools. Will not buy a timing machine to start with, then my girlfriend would probably call the men in the white coats =) What bugs me is that I've made a simple computer program that analyzes a wave file and count the tick tock's from a movement (I'm a programmer), and I've tried it on sample wave files downloaded from sites that sell the commersial programs, and my program seems to work well, but I can't find a good enough mic! I've only tried one yet, but it wasn't sensitive enough .. if I'm just able to get hold of a mic, then the program would save me lots of trail-and-error time. Don't suppose anyone has a hint for me here regarding mic? Also I will probably get the ETA7750 guide from offshore. Btw, someone (The Zigmeister perhaps?) know if there is any difference in the level of complexity to perform service on a old low-beat A7750 compared to the new high-beat?

szvwj! I'm looking to find a mic suitable for doing just this, I have the software but can not get hold of a mic. Can you guide me to where I might find a mic suitable for this?

Thanx for the tip The Zigmeister! Think I will contact him and buy the CD even if I decide not to do it myself, it would be interesting just to read and learn. I'm sure its quite complex, all those tiny tiny springs scares me the most i think, it must be a hazzle to get them back into place once disassembled. Also, I've tried to regulate (think that is the term, not adjusting which is the more complex process?) couple of A7750s that were running to fast, and only this task is very tideous and sort of trial-and-error process, without machines at least. So, maybe I'll skip this afterall. In the guide, are there tips to where you can by oils and tools and what oils to use etc? Well, I guess I'll find that out when I buy the guide Thanx a lot all you guys! Really love this forum and the helpfullness and responsiveness of you all!

Interesting! I would like to be able to do the same, but I doubt there is a local watchsmith capable of such things. Perhaps it's worth it to send new reps directly to i.e. The Zigmeister (if he offers this service, havn't talked to him), but it would be so nice to be able to do it yourself, since I'm already on my 5th rep after like 3 months when I started this, I would have some money to save by being able to do this myself.

Thanx for the figures toad! I'm sure you're right, I would break it for sure. I've just started with this rep-business and I'm completely into it and can't wait to start taking things apart! =) Love this forum with all the knowledge! I have some tools coming in now which will be needed, but I've already done some basic stuff without any tools, like taking the movement out, popping the crystal and having it AR:ed then replaced it with the thumbs (that was pretty difficult actually, but it worked), really liked the result though (on a Carrera, greenish-yellowish tint kind of AR performed at local lab). Havn't removed the dial yet though, need the hand removal tools and stuff for that first. But that will be the next step I think. I guess that doing a complete service of the movement also means you have to reregulate and adjust the movement, and I guess that can be hard to do without the machines watchsmiths often use? Anyway, having looked at quite a few of The Zigmeisters and others posts, I havn't found a _complete_ quide to servicing i.e. a A7750 movement. Is there such a guide available, like a step-by-step tutorial? Would really appreciate it if someone had I link for such a thing ..

Thanx for the links, looked around at a few earlier but seemed to have missed the one with oilings. Learned a lot in 5mins there =) Now I understand that the oil goes into the pivots and why I can't "distribute it" by oiling the gears .. it's pretty obvious when you think about it since thats were you have most of the friction.

Thanx for the quick reply! Actually it hasn't started to misbehave at all, I'm just having the feeling that perhaps it would be a good idea for a service since they are unserviced from the factories (as i've been told), or when I really do need to service it due to misbehaviours, whether it will be worth it or to go with a new movement. I have an 21j asian in a cheaper rep that is just waiting to be toyed with, so I will take your advice there! I love the watch! Want to keep it alive for as long as I can, a decade at least =)

I have a Link Chrono (A7750 28k8) that seems to be in need of service in the near future. I'm thinking of servicing it myself just for fun and perhaps to learn something. Is it very important to use all these different oils on different parts, or is it possible to go for i.e. moebius 8200 on all parts? Also, do you have to take the movement completely apart and oil each part, or, this is probably a stupid question, could you simply put the complete movement in a jar with some kind of chemical dispersing all old grease and oil, then taking it out and let it dry, then try to reoil the movement by putting oils on all visible parts of gears and stuff and getting the movement going to spread the oil to inner parts in the movement? On the other hand, is it worth the effort or should I simply go for a new A7750 replacement movement? Have no idea if those are hard to get though, or how they are priced? Maybe I should throw my dealer a question. Also, have a Carrera with the old A7750, want to switch to a new high-beat A7750 but am aware of the problem with different sized hand post. Have somebody managed this switch? Is it possible to simply glue the hands (really hard to get this right I guess) onto the smaller posts? Regards, 801run

Thanks fitmic!

Great review indeed. I was into the BTR until I read this, now it will be the panda discovery .. and the SFSO or the Skyland, probably the SFSO since almost all my watches are chronos by some reason and I want a big sweeping second hand for a change

By-Tor, that Ebel is amazing! Have you had time to compare it to the gen? It seems to be really true to the gen, judging by pictures at least. I also like the black dial version, Silix doesn't seem to have it with the SS bracelet though =( Btw, I only found this site couple days ago and I've learned so much, really great resource! Your reviews and rep comparision guides are simply great and very informative, thank you. I've got the feeling this rep-business is gonna be a serious addiction for me =)

I'm thinking of going for the Planet Ocean my self. But is there a reason to buy the UPO from e.g. Josh and then buy the dial from Silix for replacement. Why not buy the PO from Silix directly, isn't his version as good as the UPO apart from the dial? Because I guess his version is not the UPO, since it has the correct logo on the dial. So i guess my question is, to get the best PO, do I by the UPO and then replace the dial with the Silix one, or do I go for the Silix PO straight off?

May I ask where did you buy the Grand Carrera? I'm thinking of buying the black dial version from Perfect Clones (http://www.pc-80108.com), or should I look elsewhere? I've asked them about the version of the movement, if it is the low-beat 21k6 version, or high-beat 28k8 .. lets see what they say. Maybe there is no high-beat version of this replica yet?