sssurfer

Thanks for the offer sssurfer. I have to say my skills are not up to the task. I opened the watch today and realised that i cannot remove the crown. It appears that the crown asssembly is locked by a screw which i have no tool. In addition, while working on the watch, i was a little worried that i will screw up the movement and cause it to stop working. By the way, my Pam 90 is using a much smaller movement in comparison to the case, probably some 21J i guess?

Chuan, if it has a screw instead of a pin to remove the stem then I am amazed. I know of no Asian auto "21J" or similar movement that way.

And AFAIK the Seagull ST2530 is the only movement with PR indicator @5Hr.

If a different movement exists with that PR indicator, then I would be VERY interested to know it.

If you can post a pic of your movement I might be more specific (in this case, please put the rotor opposite side to the crown & stem so that I can also tell you what to do in order to release the stem).

BTW -- "chuan" is "fist", "punch", in Chinese.

Is that intentional?

LEGEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are too nice.

Just always glad to help a fellow rep lover.

http://www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/4/40/1921.aspx

then you have to use their search engine and it sucks. Just put 3809 in the 1st text box.

BTW, I already got one from them, and it was even better than the one we get in our replicas.

Paul -- Cousinsuk sells it @ 9.95 GBP

Cousinsref: 3809M

Odd.

The only multi-subdial luminors are the Daylights, and I think you should have noticed the engraved bezel and the "daylight" text on the domed part of the caseback.

So yes, the watch you saw was most likely either a 051...

...or a fantasy rep.

nm

WOW!

Is it worth the risk/trouble going to a local watchsmith? And how do you even find one (and good one at that)? And how much do you estimate this repair would cost?

Any watchsmith that is worth his name can fix it with a 10 min work.

About 10 USD. 20 if he is expensive.

I got the overlay for my 090 from archibald, he is the only one who made them (thanks once again, J.!)

Unsure if he is still making them, though.

You may try and make your own overlay as well, even if not at archibald's level as he used a special hi-res, 4-colors printer, as well as special stickers and cutting tools.

What you need is a good printer, thin but bright white paper, and a scan (or, even better, a vectorial file) of a gen datewheel.

If you are interested I can send you a scan of the datewheel -- a normal .bmp file, not a vectorial file, sorry -- and the exact size you should print it.

In consideration of how bad is your datewheel, even such a homemade overlay might make for an improvement in the end.

(mjmurphy, pls forgive this thread hijacking)

@Chuan: I see your point.

Oh well, if the date is very recessed then you have clearance enough to put an overlay on it at least.

@ciborgman: DSN has no website, just a section here and a photo album. Contacts are via email.

Thanks all for your help, guys!

If you ever happen to stumble upon any further info about it, please lmk.

Unfortunately your pics show a movement without the PR module, carlsbad.

Also without the plate that goes over the datewheel and under the dial -- that plate also carrying the PR module on it.

It is an absolutely gen pic of an absolutely gen 001 exemplar. Even BB nr and serial nr match.

Naturally this is no gurantee on what you actually get.

I could see pics of the DSN date better than those shown on his album, and I find them almost identical to the date of the "ultimate" non-DSN 104.

i have a Pam 90 (crappy low cost rep i must add) which the date is almost non readable.

Do you like this one?

Apart from jokes, I would not be so critic with the poor 090. Surely its date font is worse than a gen, but its readability is not so bad in the end -- thanks to a decent cyclops and even an additional subsidiary small lens embedded in the date window, 2892-like.

Of all the so-called "Asian auto" PAMs, the 090 is the one with the best date in my humble opinion.

(w/ apologies for having gone off-topic)

Just two minor inaccuracies (besides of the date, naturally):

1. "L SWISS MADE L" text a little too shrunk.

2. The first, capital "A" in "Automatic" less than perfect in its upper part.

All in all, I find it an excellent rep.

Also in consideration that this is the 1st time for the 240 to get repped (isn't it?), an applause to DSN.

I love tobacco/brown dials. Especially coupled with Titanium.

Really thanks for your expertise, Frank!

I too think this may be a cousin of the 2530.

Actually, it's almost as thick as the 2530: 7.15mm vs 7.40 (a difference that might be due to the lack of the PR module).

Hand sizes are exactly the same: hour 1.5mm, minutes 1.0mm (but those are also the same of DG XXXX movements).

Diameter is very similar too: 30.35mm vs 30.40mm.

The main difference in dimension is that of the datewheel: 24.6/18.4 vs 27.1/20.8 of the 2530 (ext/int).

Ok, I'll keep hunting on the Seagull path...

I confirm: gen subdial is recessed, but no concentric rings.

There are both gen 104 with the "L swiss made L" text well below the "6" number, or close to it.

Just, the latter ones are rarer, and the numbers on the caseback are different from Andrew's.

The shape of your case looks good to me.

If you want an almost perfect 104 get a DSN dial and caseback, a Lello's datewheel, and a better crown.

Just be advised about the short mark @ 9Hr on the DSN dial (it should be an easy fix by a relumer).

Unsure about the fit of a DSN caseback on a non-DSN case though.

Hoping not to be too boring: Awesome review!

It absolutely lets your enthusiasm about the matter perspire.

I just got a PAM 287 rep, disassembled it, and to my surprise it did not come with the usual DG 3809 movement but with an unknown movement (unknown to me at least).

Movement diameter is 30.35mm (DG 3809 is 25.60), thickness 7.15mm (DG 3809: 6.10).

Datewheel diameter is 24.6mm (DG 3809: 22.95).

Here are a few pics. The three-screws rotor might qualify it as a Seagull moevement.

Does anyone know what it is?

Thanks in advance,

:sss:

That's because of the stupid law that allows the "made in italy" mark if the last 5% is really made in italy

Agree.

Just consider that 99% of other laws (and all things, for that matter) in Italy are even more stupid.

So no I doubt there is a replica cottage industry in Italy itself, for one thing their laws are amongst the harshest around so it would be stupid to set up a manufacturer there.

Harsh laws are the least of all concerns to Italian people, Ken.

When you don't even get a confessed multiple killer in jail for more than 3 years, why should you care for laws on fakes?

When you get thousands criminals released in a snap because prisons are too crowded to get others, and an idiot pope just suggested it, why should you care about laws?

Besides of that, Naples boasts of a honoured and long-standing tradition for living on illegal items.

Great! Thanks!

Saved everything in hope to get my chance to use it...

Trying to keep myself safe from TV news I happened to know about this horrible tragedy only today.

Just one week after Nargis typhoon in Birmania.

My thoughts to all those poor human beings.

@Ken: don't panic, my friend. This will demostrate that anyone who wants good, really Italian hand-made items, has to go for the replicas rather than the gens.

It is well known that Gucci, D&G, etc, have 95% of their parts made in China. They just keep a very minor part made in Italy just in order to stay allowed to use the "Made in Italy" mark.

Now, knowing that the very "Made in Italy" and handcrafted items are actually the replica items, is going to put everything under a very interesting light... isn't it?

@Pix: Nothing more true (truer?) than your tale!

To anyone who may care, on next sunday the Italian TV is going to show that the high-level replica bags & clothes are actually made in Napoli, Italy, by handcraft artisans, then sent to China for world sale.

It will be on a very reliable and reputed TV report, named (oh well) exactly "Report".

It's not specifically about watches, rather about bags & suits... but as this section is "General discussion about replicas"...

I have it unclear what we are talking of, whether the lever pin (the pin keeping the lever in its place on the crown guard) or a crown guard screw.

If it's the lever pin, what you have there is a great chance to get the floppy-lever-in-open-position issue fixed at the same time of your problem.

Just use an elastic, rubber-like glue -- like silicon or diving suit glue -- instead of cyanacrylic glue.

If the clearance between the pin and its hole is really large, you might even go for the best possible fix, i.e. being able to put a small piece of electric insulant wire (electric wire with the copper threads removed) around the pin. In this case, no glue is needed.

Being the floppy-lever-in-open-position the easiest way to tell a PAM rep, it might be worth to try and fix it.