ubiquitous

The one in Jet's pic looks to be all original with a very light to minimal polish... The sharp case edges prove that. But note how clean the dial is as well.

Dial, hands, movement, crown, tube, crystal (current RSC replacement genuine 19) are all legit... Insert looks a bit suspect. Case... Looks a bit too clean and sharp, but lugs look fine with regards to shape... CG's are a bit strange. Funny how the dial is obviously quite old, yet the case is crisp and there is a strange combination of original and replacment parts installed that just don't logically add up (in terms of how an RSC would service). Did this piece come with any service history or papers of any sort? Looks too clean to have NOT been serviced recently (inside and out), so I would think that documentation should exist. I am hesitant to say that the case is an official service replacement- The s/n doesn't reflect that to be the case; replacement cases come with a very specific NEW s/n, as you vintage afficionados know. Any chance you can take some pics between the lugs? Who is the seller, and where did you buy it? That may tell me all I need to know. PM me with the details if you like...

As most reps are plated, it will certainly feel cheap. Solid 18k gold Rolexes are VERY heavy... Will it look cheap? Well... To some, probably yes. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

With regards to pricing... The project largely depends on the availability of parts at price points you feel comfortable with. Case kits are $1,000+; El Primero movements are another $1,000 - $1,600, and in some cases you'll need to factor in the cost to service. Genuine dials are $800 to $1,200, etc. not to mention all the small parts needed. For my white dial Daytona, I have $3,600 into it; my black dial has around $3,200 in. These pieces are still not cheap, but much less than the cost of a gen. Oh.... Don't forget to factor in the cost of someone assembling if you don't feel comfortable doing so yourself. I assembled both of mine, so I have no idea what that might cost. As for how long such a project will take to complete- It all depends on the availability of parts. When it rains, it pours, but when it's drought... Well, all I can say is patience is key. I waited a long time for my first project, as I was very particular about the movement I wanted. I was very keen on getting the 31j El Primero, instead of the 17j variant, which seemed to be plentiful at the time. My second Daytona took much less time as I happened to come across the right movement much sooner (which happened to be by luck; I was expecting to find a 17j EP, but lucked out with a 31j afterall). Oh... The final key to the project is resources. I cannot stress how important this is. Sure... You can find some of these parts on eBay, and sometimes the Bay can be a great source of parts. But... You have to know what to look out for, as with anything. And, of course, you have to potentially compete with others when bidding for items. If you have some third party sources, that can make life much, much easier (I myself have 3 ). With regards to off the shelf Daytonas... Sec @ 6:00 1165xx models are ones I would steer clear of. Their movements are not exactly the most reliable with those 11 extra gears shifting subdial output, and the case is abnormally bloated since it must accomodate the now much thicker 7750 with the extra bridges to hold said 11 gears in place; a genuine 116520 is quite thin at 12mm in profile. As such... The case and caseback are made much deeper to hold the movement while providing enough clearance for the rotor. Other details- the bezel is too thick and too angled (which is wrong, as genuine bezels are relatively quite flat), and the rehaut is far too deep. The winding crown is of incorrect shape and size and is positioned incorrectly on the profile of the case (too far back). The pushers are spread too far out and don't look right (a point that Omega Reign also pointed out prior). Not to mention... If you're going to get the gold version, a plated version simply won't have the weight Vintage 6263/5's (and 6239's 6240's, etc.)... These are a bit easier to make, so I would advise building if you want a keeper piece. Case kits are more widely available and less expensive; you can pick up most for around $500; some are less and some are more. Again, it depends on the details, what's available, etc... it pays to know what to look for. A Valjoux 72 movement will run around $1200+ with prices increasing thanks to franken builders (of which there are many) and collectors of V72 based pieces (of which there are even more of). Dial, hands, etc. may also be needed... Count on paying a couple hundred more for these and don't forget to factor in servicing of the movement... For a movement of this era, I would count on a servicing to provide a good baseline and idea of overall condition of the movement. Unfortunately, off the shelf Daytonas need some work...

Joshua is top rate. What you see is what you get.

tvt- I'd take your family member up on that watch, especially if it's at his cost! The 116520 is a fantastic piece, and the movement inside is superior to the El Primero in terms of technical specs. If you like Daytonas and you can get one of these at below retail, I'd say that's simple math... Just my opinion of course...

Quite honestly, I am not sure the seller of this watch on eBay even has the watch for sale. Would be interesting to see the seller's response if one of our NJ/NY based members contacted him to see the watch in person

Absolutely. It's a funny thing, really... If you've seen and handled enough gens, spotting the reps isn't too terribly difficult... Especially if you have them in hand. It's usually the little details that give them away... Or sometimes the big details. At any rate, a rep is indeed a rep. A gen is simply a gen. A frankenstein is somewhere in between, but still not a gen, even with all genuine parts. If it lacks the provenence, it's just simply not... But for me, my enjoyment is in building, and so my frankens hold a special place in my heart Plus, they make great conversation topics...

Odd... I didn't either. So, I just ran into the closet and sure as [censored]... Made in Peru, but designed in France. Crazy. I didn't realize they were supposed to be dried flat either. Ooops

Ahhh... After being stuck inside for a day and a half, it was nice to get out today. Took my son to Hobby Town to watch the RC cars, took the wife and kids to the mall to get some after Christmas exchanges done... Good to see sunny skies again

My money's on knicked pics!

Indeed... Same as the DW's.

Well, the gen case came from one of my favorite sources who has helped me out with many a project... The aftermarket case and dial came from a different source. Having both cases in hand has really helped in terms of identifying the differences between the two... And I have got to say- The aftermarket case isn't very far off. It's scary good, and with a gen bezel and crystal installed, it would be very difficult to discern it from genuine, unless a genuine accompanied it for comparison. The rest of the parts and movements are all collected over time- Supply can be a little dry at times, but with patience, perseverance and most importantly, a little cash, anything is possible. Oddly enough, I've found my luck to be that parts are always available when I'm not in the position to buy them figures... At any rate... I set about building these Daytonas because there simply weren't any available as reps that were worthwhile to me. So, after a solid year of building (actually waiting for the right movement to come along), my white dial is complete; my black dial has taken a bit less time at 3 months. As for vintage Daytonas (as mentioned by themuck), those are do-able as well. One can build a very nice 6263 or 6265 with a genuine Swiss Valjoux 72 (ideal) or Swiss Valjoux 23 (a nice, lower cost alternative). Here is my vintage 6265 with V23 installed... This one has also been a longtime project for me Seems they always are.... Cheers! R

Oh... I should also mention- The rotor and the bridge (stamped 4030) can be had for around $800 total for these two parts. I have had numerous opportunities to purchase some, but since I'm not selling or trying to dupe anyone into thinking they're gen, and since these items are also hidden behind the caseback, I feel that's money better spent elsewhere

Well, I build frankens for a hobby; not for profit. One of these Daytonas will go to my son... The other will be mine (whichever one will be his choice- He's got a long time to give that decision consideration, as he's only 3). Hopefully, the watch will mean even more to him since his Dad had a hand in putting it together...

For grins... Some production pics... Ebel 134; aka the El Primero 400 in the white dial Daytona: And in the black dial Daytona, a Zenith 3019, aka the El Primero 400 Dials... Gen: Rep: Can you see the difference? The printing.. The indicies... The coronet. It's easy to spot once you've seen them side by side- Especially in person...

Oh... Back to the watch in the auction... I personally feel that the images pictured are of different watches. i.e. each image is of a completely different watch. Look at the details...

Actually, I only build for myself

The watch in the auction is very suspect. An A serial should (heavy emphasis on should) only have a MKV dial w/ luminova. The chances of a 1999/2000 serial watch are very slim. However- If the watch was an early enough A serial, some of the older dials may have overlapped in production. Has it happened before? Yes... I have seen it take place with some other models. However, in most cases, an RSC will update the dial to the Luminova one during service anyways. It should be known that putting a franken-Daytona together is not difficult- I have two of them myself that I've built. So, with these models... Make sure you know whom you're buying from. In this case, I would be very hesitant buying from someone with 9 feedback, and with a somewhat questionable dial. In this case... Better take the watch to RSC NY, pay the $70 for a check up, and if they validate the serials on both the case and the movement, then there's no worry.

The difference is that the two gens listed are MKV dials with luminova (signed SWISS MADE), while the one pictured for the rep is a genuine MKIV with Tritium (note the T SWISS MADE T at the bottom). For reference, here is a pic of my franken-Daytona that I put together myself using a genuine MKIV dial: And here is a genuine image from a reputible source: So, the dial is actually legit, as is the bezel. If you want to see what an aftermarket case and dial looks like, have a look here... Two cases; one is genuine and the other is not: Comparison of CG's: Aftermarket on top; genuine on the bottom: The black dials on both are not original, but repaints on genuine dial blanks. Some things to note: Aftermarket dial's font is nowhere near as crisp in the printing; the spacing is off, the subdial rings are too white (with a hint of silver); those rings on the black dial need to actually be offwhite. SWISS MADE is too large, and silver- It should be white. The bezel's engraving on the aftermarket is no where deep enough, though the fonts are the same. If it were engraved slightly deeper, it would be better. The case's CG's are a bit different in shape- Too much material, but not enough for me to care. The lugs are also thicker.

Well, the 16520 (which is the model I have) is now a highly desired piece by collectors, as it is no longer in production (and earlier models are considered Neo-Vintage). True, one could get a brand new 116520 with the Rolex 4130 for less (I can get one at retail right now- A few thousand LESS than $9k), but such isn't the case with the El Primero Daytona- Just about every second hand source for one will have theirs priced in the $9k to $12k range. Supply vs. demand.

My vote goes to the Ultimate 45mm PO. But, perhaps you should try one on at an AD before committing, just to verify that the size works

Hmmmm... Perhaps an experiment is in order. Let me look for a junk watch... Maybe we will find out the answer

AWESOME review! Great pics, great detail! Very well done!

Wow... At first, I thought the watch was frozen in a block of ice, but then I saw the next pic with the water hitting the crystal. Very nice images!