NRG

The movement was some cheap asian auto, wasn't going to make an ETA my first movement Not sure what the movement was, but the crown release button was a little diveted circle if that means anything...

Sounds like the Asian 21J...I cant recall if it remains hacked with the stem out...

Is there a "good" way to freeze the rotor while working so it doesn't wind up on you anymore?

You could use a small bit of Rodico to stop the rotor spinning or better still remove it....

The hand puller I used was one from birdman http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8171 I will have to master getting it on the hands without damaging anything as in it's relaxed position the grippers exceed the rubber tips so it's possible to rub sharp grippers against the dial... I think watch paper and some careful practice will get me around this.

That's a good puller, yes sounds like you just need the practice.

I have never handled a real burgeron hand puller set but I think the problems I am having come more from my experience and less from the tool in this case...

I will have to search for a movement holder... that would have made things a whole world easier... also will get some watch papers, rodico, gloves etc... this was a quick and dirty on a watch I don't care about screwing up to learn what unexpecteds might come up

Thanks again for advice! I will be practicing on my cheapos until I am confident before risking any of my nicer watches. Hopefully next week after the holidays I can get my hands on the other tools...

I can see this hobbie getting out of control pretty fast

No problem! It's addictive! Merry Xmas...

Just wanted to add that even hobbyist/amateur watch enthusiast still needs the basic tools and kit to work on watches. Short cuts are few if any, get the basic tools (not expensive) and working on your watches will be a whole lot easier.

Dev, I don't have time to post pics so verbal only....

1) What is the movement? 2824, 2836 should still hack with the stem pulled. However, as The Zigmeister has posted before pull the stem with the crown in the winding position....which means you should let the main spring down.......so......

2) Yes let the main spring down. You need to move the click spring indent out from the ratchet wheel. Do this by slight rotation of the crown and holding the click out of the way with #2 tweezers. Control the unwinding by rotating the crown with your fingers...do not let go and allow the mainspring to unwind by itself!

3) Get yourself a movement holder, case holder, watch paper and make up some dial protectors! Get a 4x loop and head band so you can see what you are doing!

4) Try not to touch the dial or movement, we posted about this before What hand pullers did you use? The Bergeon 30670-6 are ideal. Always always protect the dial, I use some home made disks made from thin acetate with a slit cut to the centre to accommodate the hands...

Happy Xmas!

Sorry, but it's crap. God help anybody who tries to follow this 'tutorial'. If you want to learn the basics on-line sign up for the TZ watch school.

For anybody interested/fascinated by this subject! I can strongly recommend you read these articles by Walt Odets on TZ.

Start here:

http://www.timezone.com/library/horologium/horologium0037

And then work your way through part 2.2 and 2.3...

Well, for me, I regulate mine to be accurate while on the wrist.

.............

While I cannot say that my watches are to regulated to COSC standards, I can say that all of my mechanical watches gain no more than 1 second per day on my the wrist.

Jim

Exactly Jim, This is what most people are doing when adjusting their watch. You are not regulating the watch you are adjusting the average daily rate that suits your usage.

Now I got your point.

But saying that the movement is adjusted to COSC specs without the correct tools is almost impossible

Here what the COSC site says and I quote

" The results provide a "photographic" image of the rate of a movement at a given moment and certify its intrinsic position.

Nonetheless, due to their severity, these tests are highly selective and only extremely high-quality movements can hope to pass them.

This is therefore an examination based on excellence, even if the behaviour of the movements that are granted certification is still directly dependent on the wearers themselves.

To earn chronometer certification, a movement must not only be made from the highest-quality components, but also the object of special care on the part of the finest watchmakers and timers during assembly."

vaccum

True, but I didn't say that! I said the perception the wearer has is the watch has been 'regulated'....which it hasn't....the wearer has merely adjusted the average daily rate that suits his or her wearing habits of the watch.

If a watch meets COSC standards I would expect it to meet those standards no matter who wears the watch or how it is worn....However, it is still a compromise! If you want better accuracy then, dare I say it, buy a quartz!

Yes, I use the same machine, it's a very powerful feature.

However if the watch wearer stays in one position more than another IE: the user spends a lot of time driving a car, the watch more or less will be in dial up or crown left (left handed wear) position for long periods of time. That one position alone will dominate the average daily rate the wearer experiences. Knowing this allows you to adjust the watch better to suit the wearer.

Yeah, but this one is not well The Zigmeister, its jumping more than stuttering...

What I think you are reading when somebody says they have 'regulated' to 1 second a day is somebody who really has adjusted the average daily rate to suit the way they use the watch. The users perception is the watch is thus regulated because during his daily usage the watch only gains 1 second.

Actual regulation is way more complex than simply adjusting rate and if you where to take the above watch and test it for absolute rate in a fixed position and compare to another position you would most likely see a big difference between the two.

The watch timer can only measure the watch in fixed positions and will highlight differences and problems between the positions, it makes no allowance for how the watch will be worn. The watchmaker should make reasonable effort to ensure good regulation between the positions but it will be a compromise whatever he tries unless he is aiming for COSC standards which lay down clearly defined parameters for him to meet. Ultimately it is still a compromise.

I guess the skill lays with the watchmaker, those who know what they are doing will ask the customer how they use and wear the watch and so try to adjust it with that usage model in mind...just my 2p/cent's worth...

Good excuse for buying a nice GMT and minimising the risk!

21j Asian movements beat at 21600bph; roughly 5.x ticks per second

Exactly 6 times a second Ubi! Unless is knackered!

Unfortunately stuttering second hands with the 21j Asian movement is normal, it's the nature of the design. The Zigmeister has posted about this before.

Be slow and careful when operating the 21J, I broke a clutch return lever in the keyless works on my first noobmariner, you sort of have to ease the stem out with a back and forth jiggle for the keyless works to engage properly. I've serviced both of mine and they work much better but straight out of the box they are not so good.

When screwing the crown back down I've found it best to press it down and screw it back wards until it sort of settles then screw it down properly.

The grinding you feel is dirt/debris, when the threads are clean and oiled with stem grease it feels very smooth.

Rodico can also be a pain in the ass! Yes it can clean but it can also distribute oil as well so be scrupulous with it. Use the finger cots as explained above, try not to shape rodico with your fingers, you may put oils on to it which you then dab on to the movement... be careful with dial printing, it can and will remove it given the chance. And no Dev, Blue tack is not the same

It's ETA Dev, bi-directional winding...and....no...don't touch the rotor with your finger!

I don't know how hard the "316L stainless steel" the manufacturers claim to use is, but I'm thinking of using either 1) file 2) wet-dry sandpaper 3) dremel at low speed.

I'm not looking to do any serious "shaping," just to slightly knock down the sharp edges.

Advice?

Thanks,

Bob

Get one of those flexible nail polishing board the girlie's use, not the wood, cardboard or metal ones. The flexible 'foam' types. Get some emery paper or wet n dry, wrap a small strip around the end held with your finger. Start rubbing at a 45 deg angle to the bracelet edge and also up and along the edge as if you where whittling a piece of wood. Fold the bracelet as you do this so as you are only working on a few or single link at a time...

How should I place the watch at night to get it to slow down?

Maybe in that way I could get it to lose the extra secs.

Dial up / down should give the greatest amplitude and the 'slowest' position. The vertical positions (IE: crown up/down) will drop the amplitude by differing amounts speeding up the watch.

A well regulated watch will have minimum variation between these positions. By moving the arm indicated above you are changing the average daily rate and as The Zigmeister says without a machine it's a frustrating exercise but possible if somewhat hit or miss...

I've wondered about this in the past. My last watch came in an envelope as well, with a single sheet of bubble wrap around it and then placed in side a small brown paper envelope. You could feel what was inside.....I know some dealers have shown ingenuity in hiding the contents before so why not keep doing it. A small cardboard box/sleeve should be the minimum packaging IMHO....

The Zigmeister has posted about this before, AFAIK / Remember he said no abnormal wear either way, it's your choice. However, I also recall something about less wear with it running.....try using the search function.....

...I cann't see a reason why would somobody buy a genuine Rolex, absolutely none whatsoever

Because they can, because it makes them feel good, because they are snobs, because they like to wear 'labels', because of brand perception and because in reality they maybe very good watches...

Is that just 'on the wrist' or is that with the watch taken off at night?

How do you place the watch at night, the rate will change depending on dial up, crown up etc. Also and depending on where you are I suppose, the overnight temp will have a small affect. The nights here are getting colder and the watch may speed up a little.

By-Tor, what s/w do you use for pic manipulation? And what/how do you use it?

Similar to some of the above responses, for me it's being able to afford something that I would never dream of buying due to the cost...

Take the classic submariner, what is the AD list price these days $5500? I don't like it *that* much to buy a gen....however $108 on a noobmariner or $190 for an ETA version from Andrew/Josh and for me it's a no-brainer.

Having said that if it is a watch I really really like I will buy the gen version, if a) my better half says OK and b ) I can justify the price to myself. An example of this would be the non-chrono version of the Omega PO with black bezel.

Lets get on with some watch discussions!

Agreed 100%!!

My LV used to stop with the crown screwed fully down as well. The cure was to shorten the stem by half a thread. I was going to write it up with pictures, not had time to do so yet......