bklm1234

Anybody knows how to tell between the previous ceramic (sandwich?) and the new full ceramic? I'm going on vacation to China again and will see my supplier. I'd like to pick one up but need to be sure it's the full ceramic. Any pointers will help. -bk

don't remember when I bought the watch. It's used but came with The Zigmeister's lume job, drilled lug holes, gen springbars, and gen crown and tube. It even came with a gen T39 tropic (scratched up though) but I want the T127 with cyclop. I think I paid $400+. Really a steal. I finally found time to finish it. I put in a gen pearl dot, a new MBW insert which took me a while, and a Clark T127 that cost maybe $5, good enough till I found a new gen T127. I recessed the insert, of course, can't stand floating insert; trimmed the CGs some more - you know I'm big on both the insert and CGs being perfect. insert neatly inside the bezel nicely drilled lugholes with gen springbars trimmed CGs finally the amazing lume job by The Zigmeister. I know it shouldn't glow but that's how I like it exactly. Makes it practical to use. -bk

I vote for GMT 16710. Dollar for dollar it has more value. The movement is a masterpiece. It's the smartest, most practical, friendliest GMT movement on earth. When you travel, all you have to do is adjust the hour hand which adjusts in one hour increment. It can adjust backward and forward and the date change follows it perfectly. Compared to other GMT movements which you adjust the GMT hand, the Rolex GMT movement is more natural and more convenient. The simpler movement on the sub and sd just doesn't nearly have the same value. -bk

@tribal: based on the markings, MBK=Euromariner v2, same serial no. m845633. PT <> MBK/Euromariner v2, that's for sure. PT ?= wm9. We don't have to believe George. I will soon get the wm9 v2. I'll take pics and measurements. @MAHLER: has the source of wm9 subs been found or is it only these 100 initial unfinished wm9 v2's that are available outside of wm9? Time will tell. What's important is the price has come to a reasonable rate. $345 for the PT which is the typical good old MBW price. Or $530 for the wm9 v2 with superlume dial and hands, which is supposed to NOT need mods. That's good enough, isn't it? We don't have to like George. But we want his watches. It's important to know MBK/Euromariner is MBK/Euromariner, wm9 is wm9. Different people want different things. Even gen has different cases like kelster says. Some may like the thinner case. Hey some may even like the crystal sticking high above the insert like on the MBK. BTW, this MBK has the Clark crystal installed. -bk

found this gen pic in my collection. I'd say the PT looks like this more. I will measure later. -bk

I just received a PT (wm9) sub that a member sent to me to mod. I was able to take some side-by-side pics with the MBK/Euromariner m serial (serial no: m845633) sub. MBK on top, PT on the bottom PT case is thicker, so is the bezel. The lugs have different shape too. MBK on the right, PT on the left, the PT looks thicker: MBK on the left, PT on the right: I said before I had problem getting the insert in the bezel on the MBK. I had to shave the top of the retaining ring because it's blocking the insert from going in. After that, the insert snapped in perfectly. But the real problem is the bezel being a little too thin. So insert sits lower than it's supposed to. The result is the crystal becomes too high above the insert. The PT crystal is perfect, not too tall, not too short above the insert. The PT insert came nicely recessed in the bezel without mod. I surely can tell the PT bezel is thicker. So no issue of insert not going in the bezel. Right is PT, left is MBK Right is MBK, left is PT WM9 George said the PT sub is the 100 initial, unfinished wm9 v2 subs. He'd better be right 'cause I'm carrying the wm9 v2 subs. I don't want to have to deal with the bezel/retaining ring issue and I definitely like the thicker case and bezel. -bk

absolutely serious. Noobfactory exp2 is a little hidden treasure. The way the crystal fits onto the case is just like that of gen. It uses a gasket that goes around the crystal (of course) and also around the outside of the rehaut, like gen style bezel assembly for the sub and gmt. And then the bezel (with numbers 2, 4, ..., 24) serves as a retaining ring that fits over the gasket and locks the crystal in place. The crystal used in noob exp2 is of the gen type, the middle one: It doesn't use the other F520117 crystal. I measured a generic 295-C2. It has the same diameters (outside and inside) as the noob exp2's. I successfully fitted the generic 295-C2 on the noob exp2. Only thing is the generic 295-C2 looks too high above the bezel. I'm hoping the gen or Clark's will look less tall. I think the problem might not be because of the crystal but rather the exp2 bezel is too thin and sits too low. Actually since noob exp2 can take gen crystal, I have myself a project to turn a noob exp2 case into a GMT case that can take gen style bezel assembly. It's very doable. I'll make a post of this project soon. -bk

what version of the Exp2 do you have? Take some pics esp. take some between the lugs where the serial no. is (with the bracelet removed). I pretty much can tell. Crystals of different models don't interchange so you have to know the model. Noobfactory exp2 (serial no: F520117) actually can take gen crystal. -bk

If you buy a new modern sports model (like 16610 sub, 16613 tt sub, 16710 gmt2, 16570 exp2, 16600 sd), when you sell it as used, will you make money? I doubt it. You're lucky if you get back what you paid. If you did, you probably still lost due to inflation. Making big profit like 2, 3 folds is even less possible. Rolex made so many of these modern models. For them to become vintages, how many years are we talking about? Don't treat them as investment. They are at best good at holding up the value better, like Mercedes vs Chevrolet. A used Mercedes is still cheaper than a new one. But you can always use investment as an excuse with your wife If you want to invest, buy the vintages if you can afford them. More affordable is the limited editions. That is if you have connections to be able to buy them new, kinda like buying IPO stocks during the dot com era. I think Panerai limited editions are great investments. Those they only make 500 most of the time, for example Arktos. If you can get a hold of one when new, you're bound to make money and make it quickly. Of course like real estate, only select models have the rising power. DD, DJ of Rolex, even limited editions, probably won't go up. -bk

just got my wholesaleout990's (same as JewelryOutlet555) crystal. It's about the same thing as Clark's, no extra beveling/rounding at the top edge I was hoping it had. -bk

@slickdick: there is a version of TWB that has gen style bezel assembly like the one I just sold here http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=84595. I got one of it last year. I actually didn't know it had gen style bezel assembly, case, and crystal until recently because I didn't even think that's a possibility. I'm pretty sure this TWB case is what the MBW/MBK/Euromariner m serial is based on. Anyway, pop the bezel of your TWB or MBW, you might be in for a pleasant surprise that it's this version. -bk

You'll be dealing with me if you get your wm9 watches from me. I guess I take that risk out of the equation for forum members. I'm not announcing or taking orders because I have to see the watches with my own eyes first. I will be assembling the wm9 subs I sell. I want certain things done by myself, e.g. installing dw overlay. -bk

@mahler: what source is found? I don't think so. What about the MBW/MBK/Euromariner? Same factory, right? The MBK/MBW/Euromariner is distinctly a different watch with different components from wm9. Same factory? I doubt it. You don't see the MBKs use the same dial, or crown? Not to mention on some MBKs not using gen style crystal? I myself have been waiting and waiting for the wm9 sub to be cheaper, or some forum collectors to sell them cheaper. No, nothing after all these months since the 1st gen wm9 sub was released. But now PT has these subs? PT possibly found the source. Fact is these PT subs are newer, more upgraded, better than wm9 1st gen sub and the MBKs. George's claim might be true. The PT subs are possibly, for lack of a better term, 1.5th gen wm9 sub. When wm9 releases its 2nd gen sub, we'll know if it's better than the PT sub. The price $530 for the 2nd gen is reasonable, finally. That's all that matters, reasonable price with respect to what the watch comes with. "Scammer" or not, wm9 does have a kickass product that we want to get our hands on at a reasonable price. I'm not here to defend wm9 or George. I was gonna announce this later. I will bring wm9 watches to the forums. I've looked at MBKs, not quite what I want. wm9 is what I want, esp. with the upgrades at pretty much the same price. In addition, wm9 has other 1:1 efforts going on. I'm extremely careful 'cause I'm putting on the table. If I got scammed, so be it. But I gotta try. It's a reasonable risk for me to take. -bk

according to wm9 George, the PT subs are from the 100 initial watches of the 2nd gen wm9 subs which wm9 will release soon. wm9 dumped this stock because it didn't get the CGs shape where it wanted them to be. They are still great esp. at the price PT is selling them (even the 1st gen is lot more than that), just lack the full sets of upgrades like superlumed dial and hands, upgraded dial, upgraded CGs, upgraded dw overlay, upgraded bracelet with hollow mid-links. They are esp. good if you want to build a LV sub since wm9 doesn't offer the LV. -bk

Yes, wm9 is releasing the 2nd generation wm9 sub. It's going to come in both m serial and z serial. The m serial has ROLEXROLEX engraving on the rehaut while the z serial doesn't. Otherwise they are exactly the same. The upgrades are quite significant. They include: - upgraded dial with round "S", that's supposed to be much better than before with sharp text - dials and hand are superlumed - gen shaped CGs, no trimming needed. We'll see. - upgraded dw overlay supposedly 1:1 copy - upgraded bracelet with hollow mid-links. George said the bracelet-smith can only make 6 a day. Don't know if that's a sign of quality - upgraded insert with superlumed pearl dot and a clear coat over it Price is set for ~$540 for m serial, ~$530 for z serial which I think is very reasonable, finally, given these upgrades. -bk

Clark's is really good already. I'm looking for an additional bevel/rounding on the top edge. Like this 14060. Note beside the main bevel, the top edge has another small bevel/rounding: I just ordered a wholesaleoutlet990 (same thing as JewelryOutlet555) crystal to see if it got what I want. I'll let you'all know which one is the best. -bk

great to know. I gotta head down to OFREI and pick up a couple for myself. -bk

@tribal: typical inconsistency in reps. But we know why and how to fix it if you unluckily got one like this. @Ray T: I already shaved it and put everything together so I don't know how thick it was originally. I can measure mine from Josh which I haven't assembled everything yet. I'll come back to this thread when I did. -bk

@patfvl: I got exactly the same watch as yours from Josh last year. It also exactly has the same problem as the MBK/MBW/Euromariner. -bk

@im2: this is the one mill here -bk

this new YM will come with a 2892 and SL'd dial and hands. The price of $675 is reasonable. If you read the news web page http://www.watchmaker9.tv/latest_news.htm, you'll see they really spent a lot of effort in getting the dial and other things right, including doing aging simulation. I really like what they are doing. George told me the SD pics in that web page are of a gen he just acquired. He will use it to make the reps. Do expect it'll be while before their SD is released. -bk

@im2, highoeyazmuhudee, chris: no, no, no. It's not the insert being too thick. It's the retaining ring that is blocking the bottom of insert. So no matter how thin you mill it, the retaining ring is still gonna hit the bottom of the insert. In fact if you mill the insert too thin, it loses stiffness and won't hold itself in the bezel. Sanding the bezel ring will make it even lower than in relation to the retaining ring => that's worse. Here's the cause and fix I gave to blue_sphere who already posted it in another thread: "I finished the Euromariner I was working on over the weekend. I know why the insert can't go in. The retaining ring, the big one, that holds down the whole gasket, which is also the foundation of the bezel assembly, is blocking the insert from going in. The part of it that wraps around the crystal is too high, in relation to the bezel. Ideally if the bezel is thicker, the retaining ring would not be an issue. So the fix is to grind down that part of the retaining ring. It's safe to do so because the retaining ring is quite thick and tall. That little bit (less than 1mm) being gone won't weaken the structural integrity. With that shaved off a little, the insert has a chance to go in all the way in. It just snaps in without glue and is nicely recessed. Like I said the ideal is to have a thicker bezel. Right now the crystal is high, a bit too high." -bk

No, I shaved ~1mm off the top of the retaining ring to get the insert in. You can't sand the gasket anyway because it and the crystal are perfectly fitted to the case. There's no excess to sand on the gasket even if it is sand'able (I've never sanded plastic). "doomed" - it's just the pics. -bk

Clark crystal is a great alternative, $23 shipped, gasket included. It's good quality, date mag is good, I don't think there's an etched crown. Maybe I didn't look hard enough. Here're some pics of the MBK/MBW/Euromariner I finished. Check out the Clark crystal, esp. the date mag: -bk

@im2: you didn't do any harm to your watch. You did a very good thing actually. You discovered you have a broken gasket as revealed by your picture. A part of the gasket is on the case, another part of it is with the bezel assembly. You didn't break it. It's not an accident. The factory did it because they didn't use a gen style crystal on your watch (the middle style). Maybe they are trying to use up their existing crystals (the bottom style). Check your crystal to see if the edge is straight down without cut. I'm sure kelster's Euromariner (he also posted the same thing about his Euromariner) came with this style of crystal. The MBK/MBW m serial I just modded (which is same thing as the Euromariner without the noob parts) is exactly like yours and kelster's. All you need is order a Clark (Clark's comes with a new gasket) or OFREI or Cousin or gen crystal. You're better off tremendously. -bk