Tim

Someone told me that I could find some bread over here? Who has the bread?

/Tim

You could possibly act dumb and say you thought they were the real thing. You saw them listed online you had no reason to believe they were not real, you bought them sight unseen. When they ask you if you think $150 is a little cheap for a Rolex, say that you saw some guy selling them for $250 on a street corner in Warsaw so you thought you got a good deal. They'll think you got a screw loose but there is nothing in this that proves you had prior knowledge that these were counterfeit goods.

So my advice, act dumb.

/Tim

As far as I can see, the Russian movements are the lower-end of those watches, the more expensive have ETA movments, the quality might be bit better then Chinese ETA movments, or perhaps not. The prices are reasonable, though could be lower. Few of those look good, but not that good. Here is link: http://www.vostok-watches.com/

I own this watch:

It has this movement in it:

I don't see what is so low end on the movement. Like I said, the design isn't very elegant but it is very durable and my watch keep accurate time to about +- 20 seconds a day. Not impressive, but respectable for the price.

/Tim

A few things come to mind:

1. Most Russian watches are replicas in their own right.
   
2. Most are already very affordably priced.
   
3. Would you really want a watch that's more cheaply made than a Russian?
   

(This is from the owner of a nice Poljot Strela, with 3133 movement...)

I disagree with one of your statements. Russian watches are not replicas in their own right. The Russian companies make their own movements and these movements are a distinct design from anything else on the market. Second none of the Vostok or Poljot watches are made to look like any other watches. (i.e. They are not trying to say they are a Rolex and labeling them such like our reps.)

What I would agree with, and perhaps what you are trying to say, is the the quality of the Russian watches is about the same as our reps. That is true.

I own two of the Vostok Europe watches that you made reference to and have been very satisfied with them. Just like most things Russian built, the movement it isn't very elegant but tends to be brick sh*thouse tough and nearly unbreakable. The Vostok Europe design were specifically targeted towards Western tastes--kind of like an "export" version of the watches.

They are exceptionally well priced and not cheaply built. At least the Vostok Europe ones I own are not cheaply built. Unlike many of our reps, they have very few sharp edges, all the parts fit well together and are properly positioned. Only thing I've consistently noted is that their crowns tend to have some edges.

/Tim

I bought a brand new DJ from one of our dealers. The movement has problems and I would probably need to get it serviced for it to work right. The DJ from our dealers are listed as having a 2836-2 ETA Day Date movement. I suppose they are doing the day date model movement because it is more efficient to work with a fewer number of movements.

I was thinking however that I have a bunch of junk watches with 2824-2 ETA Date movements in them. I bought the watches because they were only $30 and I was hoping to use them to get movements that I can practice with since while I am learning anything I touch I will obviously destroy.

My question is are these 2824-2 movements a drop in replacement for the 2836-2. Will the date wheel from my 2836 fit on the 2824 and will it be in the same position?

Thanks for the info.

/Tim

I have a question that I am hoping someone might have some ideas about how I could proceed. I have mentioned before that I mostly collect vintage watches and the target of my collection is early electrics before quartz. Examples are Hamilton Electrics, Accutrons, Megasonics, and so forth. I have probably one of the nicest collection that exists. There is a problem though with the Accutrons in that the most valuable examples have in them what is called a 214 movement. Many may know these watches as the old "hummers" since they have a high pitch hum sound to them when they run. Of course what causes this is a tuning fork movement.

That tuning fork is made to work by an electrical field generated by two coils (pictured)--one on either side of the tuning fork. The 214 was the original movement that was made for these watches although there were some models after that one. But the 214 is the holy grail of the model line so to speak. Here is the problem.

These coils are made of exceptionally thin wire wrapped around a tube. The wire is of sufficient age that it is getting brittle and breaking (the first production watches were released in 1960 making them almost 50 years old at this point). When this happens there is no repair that can be done on the watch and the entire coil must be replaced. It normally is no big deal and people have been making this repair for as long as the watches have been around. However no more parts are being made for these watches and that includes the coils. The Accutron community has been living off of NOS parts now since they've stopped selling the watches. And these coils are almost all gone now.

Now the question. Does anyone have a clue on what luck I would have commissioning a production run of these coils? Do any of the manufacturers that supply our watches have the capability of making something like these coils? From what I've seen they are very similar to the coil wrap they put on quartz crystals in quartz watches. (Did you know that a quartz watch is basically a tuning fork watch as well?) Anyone have any ideas?

/Tim

No it was right, he just deep fried it to strip off the AR coating like you requested!

Oh THAT explains the fishy aroma I smelled. Damn Canadians. Always slipping some fish or blubber or something into their fryers. And here I thought something was wrong.

....I told The Zigmeister that those whale rinds were disgusting!

/Tim

The amount of oil in a properly lubricated mechanical watch is so small that circulation is not possible. You actually want the oil to stay in place in a jeweled bearing and it does this through a capillary action and surface tension. I don't think the service interval for getting your watch cleaned and oiled would be changed very much by position. Oils dry out at a pretty predictable rate but....I'm not the expert here...The Zigmeister is. Dial up or down storage probably refers to the position a well adjusted watch is optimized for 8 hours a day as far as running regulation...on your night stand off your wrist while you sleep.

So that last watch I got back from The Zigmeister that had oil dripping out of the crown tube wasn't right?

/Tim

It doesn't sound like a "break-in" issue unfortunately.

/Tim

haha......tell your Senator and State Representative about that and ask them to stop saying the Chinese is eating the US economy.

Chinese taking the US economy?

Hell no, we are giving it away to the Chinese and OPEC countries because we can't control our insatiable consumption. G*damit, there I go sounding like a socialist again.

I actually tried this experiment. I tried to not buy a single Chinese product for as long as I could, until I ran into something that was essential to my life and not just something I wanted. Understand this is not an America first thing or some put down on the Chinese. It is just that I started looking at where everything was made as I bought it to appreciate how truly foolish we are being as a country. I lasted two days and I put too many to count things down after looking at them because they were made in China and I didn't absolutely have to have the item. All of WalMart is out. Most of Target. I did find a number of South American substitutes, but I feel that was just avoiding the truth that we don't make squat anymore except guns.

/Tim

I'd love to, but I'm banned.

Who took the photos over there?

Haven't they undone you being "Klinked" yet or are you waiting for an apology?

/Tim

Would Astroglide work as well?

...sorry, couldn't resist.

/Tim

Its television. I am not sure how true any of it is. Most of the stories on these show are made up or least embellished for dramatic content.

Just because it is on TV doesn't mean it really happened.

Of course that is not to say that these things don't actually happen on eB*y.

/Tim

Google is your friend:

http://www.facetingmachines.com/polishing_glass.shtml and http://www.watchpolishing.com/polishingglass.htm say the same thing.

And just remember an axiom that I learned the hard way after many f*uck ups. You better test it on something before you go polishing away. A hunk of junk quartz watch you might have would undoubtably have a mineral crystal so maybe try it on that. Speaking of which...

I am asking a couple of question here because--just to check this out--I tried a jewelers cloth on a hunk of junk russian watch with a mineral glass crystal and I wasn't able to scratch the glass with the rouge in the cloth. Maybe the Cape Cod cloths use a coarser rouge but I doubt it since the purpose of both is to remove surface oxidation and handling marks.

The next question is are you sure the scratches are in the crystal or is it possible that it has an AR coating and it is the AR you scratched? I am just double checking with that since you say you spent some money on the watch it is possible it has an AR coating. Do you know how to tell--the purple haze at an angle? If you scratched the AR you ought to just live with it because there is no fixing it without removing the coating entirely and reapplying.

Next question. Are you sure that the crystal isn't acrylic? I don't know an easy way to tell this for sure n a small woman's watch since on a bigger watch tapping it would sound like plastic. If it is highly domed however it is likely to be acrylic. Scratches in acylic can be removed easily with Polywatch.

If you are sure that these are scratches in the mineral glass, find another piece of mineral glass around on a junk watch that you can test the stuff The Zigmeister mentioned. You may end up making the whole situation worse if you try it and change a barely noticable flaw now into a glaring defect. Any polishing no matter the materal is a process of applying finer and finer scratches onto a surface. Your best bet if you want to try and remove these scratches would be to entirely remove the crystal and try the polish on the entire crystal face. From my experience the eye catches the lack of uniformity more than the individual scratches. If you try and polish just the corner that has the scratches you again may make the situation worse by changing the appearance of a larger area. If you apply the treatment to the entire watch crystal you are most likely to get the result you are looking for.

/Tim

Its not that i want to go diving with it or what not, but my Sub is my daily watch and i wear it 24/7. I dont want to have to be taking it off ever time i shower or wash my hands, and if i do jump in a pool or the ocean for a quick swim i would like to keep my watch on. Its more for personal piece of mind then to try and impress someone by passing off the rep as a gen.

Then send it to one of our guys and have them water test it and check all the seals. A grey maket type watch repairman might be willing to take on your shady goods as well. But in all honestly, learn to do it your self (there are postings here describing the process) or don't worry about it. To take it to someone will probably cost you a bit of money. You can pick up a new sub rep for $175 these days so many take the attitude that they will wear it until it breaks and then get a new one.

/Tim

Guys,

My PM to ff, was just that I may have a couple to help him with, not of a particular supplier.

Offshore

Well you are a disappointment! Bringing our hopes up and then dashing them... shame on you!

/Tim

Do i have to get one of those expensive "Rolex waterproof caseback openers", or will any caseback opener do the job to get the caseback tight enough to make it water proof? As far as the silicone grease will any silicon grease get the job done?

I have a JAX that I use with most every other caseback except a Rolex. I've not tried to open my Rolex yet, but many report success using a folded piece of duct tape. I think they fold it over so that the sticky side is out and it will adhere to both your hand and the case. Then take a breath, turn, and grunt. Oh and shake the pain out of your hand when you got it open! Seriously, it what people say they use and it certainly wouldn't scratch the case like many tools would.

/Tim

One thing you have to understand about buying reps is that there is no guarantee of out of the box quality control. While this is true of gens as well, it is much, much more likely to be a problem with reps. Dealers drop ship watches to you sight unseen and they are assembled by people who make about a dollar a day (I'm exaggerating but you get the point), so mistakes like poorly seated crystals, missing gaskets, half-screwed in casebacks inevitably occur. Therefore, no dealer (Paul, Andrew, Josh, ANYONE) can really "guarantee" a watch is water-resistant except to the extent that if it leaks, they will (probably) replace the watch. One member of this board disassembled his "guaranteed 1000m water resistant" SuperOcean Steelfish rep and found the crystal simply pressed into the case, with no sealing agent! Guaranteed 1000m, my ass.

As far as your Sub goes, the design is not inherently leaky but based on my own experience with a Sub and a YM from Paul, I wouldn't bet on a lot of water-resistance. The crystal is simply pressed into a plastic retaining ring and held in place by the bezel insert, which in turn uses a pretty cheap glue. Even if the watch seems initially water-resistant, if the bezel insert falls off (and this has happened to a lot of people), goodbye crystal, then goodbye movement. If you seal the crystal to the case with some silicone or something, securely glue in the bezel insert and make sure the crown and caseback are watertight, you're probably in good shape -- but out of the box? Unless you like arguing with Paul over returns, I wouldn't swim with it.

Wow I am glad I read this thread. I have a YM from Andrew and the bezel insert just popped off on me. It was brand new and was wearing it just the second time. Fortunately I was tying my shoe and saw it pop off. I pulled the bezel ring off and glued the insert back on. It is drying upstairs. So how is the crystal itself mounted on the case, just pressed in? Is there something I can do for it while I have the bezel off?

/Tim

I could use the PM as well.

OFREI SUCKS!

Unfortunately, they are the only ones with some of these parts. The way they treat customers though, well let's put it this way, they ain't winning no J.D. Power award. I actually wonder how they manage to stay in business. It is unfortunate, because they could be such a resource to collectors if they'd get their head out of their a$$.

/Tim

Sales office? It's called a laptop and a post office.

As for a factory, it's not what you imagine. Check this video out:

http://culture.hautehorlogerie.org/en/haut...iting-1832.html

Wow! That is neat. Is this the large mall over the border from Hong Kong that I hear everyone talking about?

You know, as we go along I have less and less respect for some legitimate manufacturers. They export all their jobs and manufacturing to China for the cheap labor costs screwing their fellow citizens in the process. Here is where they are paying for that cheap labor. Legitimate manufacturers nickel and dime Chinese manufacturers so consequently the Chinese, being a resourceful people, take advantage of the production facilities established by the cheap b*stards to eek out a profit margin. Poor poor capitalists. There I go sounding like a socialist again.... going to have to watch (hee hee) myself.

/Tim

Hi All,

Please do not ask me who's the dealer, I won't say.

It's a private matter and I feel like I must NOT share my problems with you.

However, there is one thing I must share, it's our community that must be protected after all and thus be aware of what is going on: my visit at the customs.

The country where I am is not important. I'm in Europe.

In France EMS is Chronopost, in Belgium Taxipost and so on.

EMS is nothing else but the state postal service.

I received TNT, Fedex, DHL packs from China or Singapour without any problem.

But, suddenly, my China watches coming thru EMS were seized.

I was asked to go to the customs to declare why I bought fake watches.

I tried to be as friendly as possible with the guy and he started to show me his files of the day, some replicas aswell...nice atmosphere thus.

In the files he showed me, there were waybills. Ok, now were these waybils from Fedex, Tnt , Dhl, ...NO

I can assure you that 100% of the 10 files I saw were EMS sendings.

So, my conclusion is that the state (customs) work with the state (post) very close.

I thought I should let you know that for me, only registered airmail will be accepted.

If a dealer persist to ship something using any kind of trackable delivery (Ems, Fedex,...) and the item is seized, I will always claim 1000% of my money back from now.

Cheers

Stephane

So it is reasonable to request a specific type of mailing service. But since you are insisting that they use untrackable shipping, when it doesn't arrive you will consequently not demand a refund--correct? I have a hard time understanding the attitude sometimes exhibited when buying these reps. This isn't <insert appropriate department store for your country> where you pay list price and have a right to expect an impeccable buying experience. This isn't the most up-and-up endeavor we are engaged in here but I don't think the ethics of drug dealers (not to put too fine a point on it) is appropriate either. Else you may find our dealers unwilling to do business with those in your country, like those in Italy from my understanding.

In other words I think it is always appropriate to meet our dealers halfway.

/Tim

these are a little less busy than the 600m diver

btw the bezel on the gmt is sapphire for no scratches!

I love that GMT. Know where it is for sale?

/Tim

Of course to each his own but the majority of people I see wearing panerai's have been here in NYC, a few in tokyo, some when I was in paris and london.

These guys are most likely not wearing sunglasses expect when they need to and they are probably not a widely used name product but a very high quality european pair that have a classic look and style or the last panerai I saw in NYC was on a girl and she had on a pair of john varvatos sunglasses.

Ray-ban's.... do not think so If you cannot get your panerai at the mall then you cannot get the glasses you want to pair with them there either.

One photo I saw here a year ago or so was a guy with a mullet, tattoos and a wife beater drinking a mountain dew wearing a fiddy......unless you are a rock star you are not fooling anyone with that.

May sound snobby but these replicas are high priced luxury items that cater to a certain crowd. Partly for fashion and partly for the love of the mechanical watch.

But you better believe panerai makes there money off the fashion crowd and those guys are not going to touch a pair of oakley's with a ten foot pole.

In NYC there are a few tourist tells that me and friends have.....jean shorts, oakley's, hats with college logos(or any hat backward on a guy) and that short blond dyed middle aged female haircut.

but of course you should wear what you like with your watches

You don't know Oakley very well. They are considered very fashionable. Many high end department stores have a Oakley section right next to Ralph and Calvin.

Let me put it this way, I was in Berlin in December and went to KaDeWe. Downstairs they were selling $100K+ Breguet watches (and Panerai too) and in the menswear section they had a big old honking Oakley section. I rest my case.

Although I do admit to mostly wearing my Mykita glasses with my rep Panerai.

/Tim

There are exceptions: Planet Oceans and Spring Drives, for instance.

The Omega Co-Axial gets Quartz-like accuracy, according to some owners, my brother included. The Seiko Spring Drive doesn't count, obviously, but ... damn!

You'd be hard-pressed to find a replica as accurate as a well-tuned Omega Co-Axial.

I so want a spring drive. I just wish that the design that Seiko used wasn't so -- Japanese. It has no class and a busy dial.

/Tim

Worst case scenario, I'd write it off. There is some risk associated with trading in reps, and shipping any valuables for that matter. If it happened to me, I'd offer to pay the dealers cost for a new one. Assuming it is something like a 50% markup, $375 is still a bargain--especially if you can work it so that since the watch is costing you more, the dealer agrees to closely QC the watch they send to make sure it is perfect. Where else are you going to get a Tag Heuer rep for that price except from one of our dealers?

/Tim