Devedander

I think the growing expectations you are witnessing may come from a growing influx of members into the replica watch world...

I can only imagine that this is becomming more and more mainstream and thus easier and easier for the average joe to find.

If this was still underground and unknown enough to be the realm of watch enthusiasts and those who were willing to invest a lot of time and energy into locating sources for it, then I would see it differently...

But the mall mentality? Many dealers have very "mall" style websites, complete with credit card and paypal automation... this is not an exclusive or difficult to find world anymore and with these steps I would say the paradigm is changing.

I haven't been around long enough to say empirically but I would be that the same thing that happened to the warez scene is happening to replica watches... it becomes more public, more accessible and thus more diluted...

It used to be if you could download the new photoshop or generate cd keys for windows installs you were a member of the somewhat elite and had probably run the appropriate gauntlets to prove what kind of person you were and that you were worthy to get the goods and could be trusted not to screw it up for everyone.

These people could be trusted to understand upload quotas and the good of the scene as well as how to use and apply hacks and cracks... nowadays people who don't understand what a zip file is are screwing the scene up pretty royally and spreading virus's and spyware like wildfire...

Nowadays Joe Schmoe can hop on to mp3.ru or astalavista.box.sk and have his hands on any number of files with no work or understanding of what's realy behind it... I have seen people who download illegal software then call the vendor for support...

This is roughly analogous to what seems to be happening to the rep world what with paypal chargebacks and such screwing it all up...

Is it a good thing? I would say hardly... but it's what is happening and blaming the influx of users who have not had to run the gauntlet can hardly be blamed on the users, it's just the paradigm changing...

I would say the "mallification" of the rep world is brought on as much by those already here as those comming and increasing the change... dealers by making their websites more standarized and accessible and by the very existence of easy to find forums such as these that make an easy entrance with no proverbial "gauntlet" to run for the average joe to prove his worth...

It's always better for the elite if the realm stays elite... but just becase it would be nice can hardly be accepted... I wish people would learn enough about computers that when I am helping someone out by phone and ask them to turn off their computer, they don't just turn off their monitor and turn it back on. But I sure appreciate what the spread of computer accptance has done for computer prices, availability and quality... something I think we see reflected in the reps available today as a result of the increased business comming from teh influx to the rep world. It's a sort of double edged sword if you ask me...

It's a tough spot because I would expect a dealer to repar this because that's what they are profitting on... they sell products, we pay them a premium, and as part of the risk in any business part of what you do is accept a risk that you are selling a working product, not the intention of a working product.

But between members it's a little less cut and dry since it's not really someones business so the standard may be different.

But my personal feelings are it still is on the sellers side to ensure things are basically right.

As a seller you can set the rules: Do you want insurance? How much and what kind of packaging will you use? Which carrier will you choose?

You choose then you set the price accordingly.

If you did not choose well enough to protect your product in delivery, you can take it up with the delivery carrier if they damaged it, or eat it as it was your decision as to how to deliver it. It may have been your sincere belief that what you did was enough but how is it the buyers fault if it wasn't?

The general rule of thumb in the business world is that the item belongs to the seller until it's shipped, the shipper (who is the sellers agent at this point) until it's delivered, then the buyer once it is delievered.

There has to be some honesty in figuring out where the issue came about (ie was it sent damaged, did the shipper damage it or did the buyer after he recieved it) to correctly determine who should bear the burden of repair or replacement.

By the general rule of who owns what during the process only if damage occurs after the buyer recieves it should it be his burdern entirely.

If damage occurs during shipping, the carrier is the agent of the seller and the seller is therefore still responsible, may persue his agent for restitution, but the buyer is not responsible.

Now because of our hobbie persuing restitution can be a bit harder, but again that's something I think any seller should figure into his price... the percentage risk that he takes something goes wrong.

As for expecting the buyer to repair something I think if the buyer is capable of doing a repair with reasonable ease, he should (for the communities benefit) go ahead and do it.

However it should not be expected that a buyer will have that skill unless you have some reason to think so (for instance if The Zigmeister was the one who bought this watch I would think he would certainly do the fix himself).

Personally I work on computers a lot, if you sell me a motherboard with a corrupted BIOS I know how to hot flash it (assuming I have an identical board) and would have no problem attempting this process to save any hassle.

But I certainly wouldn't expect this from anyone I sold a mother board to unless I knew in advance this was the type of person who could handle this.

I don't think there was any reason to believe nguyendd could perform any kind of watch mod from his posts and history so it woudln't be right to assume he coudl perform any repair (no matter how simple it may seem to you and me) nor that he should.

Risks abound on all sides, but the seller gets to set the rules and is the one taking in the money so I tend to say unless there is some understanding ahead of time, I expect the seller to take a larger portion of the burden of risk...

That's just me though...

I am giddy with anticipation... my package arrived at SF customs this morning at 11:50... unfortunately it seems to still be there... my last order (from Angus) of 1 watch cleared customs in just under 1 hour much later in the day...

Trying to think happy thoughts so as not to jinx anything!

Wow... that's horrible... did it look like maybe it was opened and inspected in customs? Maybe it was damaged there... hard to imagine that it would get shipped that way....

I believe both PAMs shown are sandwich dials and if The Zigmeister can stay within the lines I suppose it means it's humanly possible

Very nice! I may have missed it but which product exactly did you use? (I am thinking daytime invisible)?

This is not good news... waiting on mine (it's somewhere over the Pacific right now) but I like to drive with my hand out the window... if it broke during a time like that it would be bye bye watch

From the look of it the weld looks pretty weak. I would think a solid weld might break if air or something got into the welding compound, but to come off clean like that just looks like it was never attached well...

I would be tempted to go to a jewler right off and have it broken and welded right from the bat... wonder how much that costs...

@ PAMManGood to hear... were you on Jay or ELs list? Also 9 Rolex's? That's a pretty pricey collection... at the low end that's about $30k...

Swap IWCs? I assume he means temporarily... but thats hot

@nyuendd It's entirely likely that Jay and EL order from different sources or that EL only had pull to get 25 at this price or something...

When it comes out..............the chopard mille miglia

That watch makes me want to do the robot

Wonder if they will have any problems with reps...

Do you think it would make it harder to check your progress if you pulled crown and tube? I mean then you cannot screw the crown down and check if light makes it through...

After that,.. who knows..higher numbers may even allow us to order

a watch repped specifically for us....

Like something with a working moonphase that doesn't smile at you or a 7753?

BTW if it's an IWC again I would love to see a good deal on a 95%+ Flieger... or bring back a round of proper SMPs...

Would also like to see how low we could get the price on some solid Tags...

Devedander,... both those are the older versions....no more worries,..

you've got the best watch, for the best price... and from the best dealer...

Also a thanks to Torresp, for the report and band idea !

Looks like Jay is holding up his agreement...!

By the way, when anyone posts their ideal watch for our next GB... please

chime in and vote on the choices,.. most voted will be IT !

Again my thanks for your work and apologies for speaking too soon

Hopefully my watches get here this week and I can say empirically that Jan and Angel are top notch dealers (certainly seem so thus far).

Are you going to make a vote thread for the next GB?

Hmmm... I didn't catch that... being the only Ingy I saw on his site I thought it must be the same...

My mistake and apologies for not being more astute... I will do my best not to make that mistake again

http://silix-prime.com/product.asp?id=1326

Paul has it for $179 and I am thinking free shipping (not bringing into it the whole wo-mart reliabilty thing)

http://www.wo-mart.com/product_info.php?cP...products_id=847

I was happy to pay $205 for it then so I can't gripe now, but it is kinda harsh considering mine shipped just 2 days ago (and actually is still in China as of nov 13 according to EMS tracking)... I guess it can go both ways... wait and loose out (SMP with proper HE valve and pins) or jump the gun and pay more... live and learn I suppose...

Not to devalue this GB or anything but did the Ingy price drop across the board pretty heavily recently? Silix now has it for $160...

What's wrong with the clasp on these? Kevlar sounds good... but sonds epxensive.

Ahhh....no I skilfully used P/shop to remove said feet......not a pretty sight....

Well then how do we know you didn't just take photos of sub from all over the internet along with some pics of dvd boxes and photoshop that whole thing up to convince us that you really test the watches...

So the PM in the OP is not actually what you wrote to him in a PM?

I am confused on what they are accusing you of doing? Is 3 dials somehow in conflict with being never worn or something? I am confused...

Interesting... nice DVD collection... do they not have black market DVDs in Thailand or do they just come with convincing boxes? I still have a few shoeboxes full of the slip covers that my suitcase o' DVDs from China came in (promply moved to binders but I just coudln't throw away the carboard A Box inserts... some were hilarious to read).

Glad to hear the orders have gone out... look foward to recieving mine.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...mp;t=k&om=1

Put it in satellite veiw and zoom to about the 3 closest zoom.

I may be wrong, but they way I see it is that these type boards do not need any more attention than they already receive. I understand that most every federal law enforcement agency is aware of them, but as the old saying goes, out of sight, out of mind. My .02

Exactly... out of sight...

Time to bust out the Google Earth?