Devedander

While his account may have a huge amount due today, in 7 days he'll be able to file for a non-payment credit. In the end, he won't be responsible for anything more than his listing fees (a few doillars).

But he will miss out on his first day sale, which I think will cut into his profits a lot. I bet within a week PS3 prices go down to $1-2k.

I think the smart people will hold onto them until a week or two before xmas... rich parents will shell out buku bucks then.

Does anyone really like it? Are the cool people perpetuating it and others just "say" they like it?

Are you saying that maybe it's a case of "Would you like PAMs because everyone else liked PAMS?"

That's a good question...

Would you wear clothes just because everyone else did?

Notice they are almost all not registered users anymore Obviously no one paid that much.

The highest legit looking auctions I saw were in the $5k range... not a bad profit for camping out at walmart for 5 days... that's about $1k a day.

Brrr....

Unlikely?

Assuming a lot of negatives?

people are bewildered how I got into such an unlucky streak..

I would say that the fact people are bewildered means you are indeed the exception and not the rule.

I don't mean to belittle your position but I see far more reports of "Everyting arrived and works well" than I do of "Something was not right upon arrivale" and even fewer "Things were not right and it cost me significant time and money to get it right".

I would venture that on average when things do go wrong, usually the dealers don't put much if any extra expense on the buyer and the added time probably puts them on par with TTKs long end...

Again I can only say from what I have researched around some rep forums but that's what it looks like.

Based on my experience, I think the quality of the item is more important..

no offense intended to anyone: I can have the best customer service in the world, but if I don't have good control over the quality of my items, it is crapola.

And that makes you the perfect customer for TTKs business model... but you have to be willing to accept that a large portion of the community differs from you. We live very much in an instant gratification, feel good walmart world. If everyone who bought from TTK was like you, then it would be fine and dandy, the problem is that they are not, and his business practice doesn't allow much flexibility for them.

I agree, I would love the best of both worlds... TTKs knowledge and service and Jos/EL/whoevers quality of service and speed... and should that come along I would think they would get a lot of business.

But in the business world there is a general rule, you can have 2 of these three things:

Good

Fast

Cheap

But never all 3... so I am not holding my breath for the magical salesperson to come along.

All I am saying is that TTK seems to be unhappy about some circumstances, which to be fair, I think he has the ability to influence significantly with very little extra effort...

Having been to similar "market" districts in China for other types of things I can only say there is no exageration in the description of how unbelieveable this type of market is....

Even in it's slimmed down form I am sure it's still a site to behold and makes me really want to get another trip to China in the near future...

BTW generally the way these types of things stay "above the table" is obviously corruption... the police who stand guard outside the blackmarket shops are on payroll (or their bosses are) and payroll for this kind of thing is good with bribes to the lower level cops probably being around a 50%-100% of their salary.

@watchlover that's assuming a lot of negatives and if that happened every time it would be a fair comparison... that scenario I think is very unlikely though...

And this may not apply to this person in question, buy my feeling is that it's not so much the time taken or the cost as it is the feeling you get during the transaction... that's why people are willing to pay Jos a premium, because they feel good the whole time, secure and happy.

Neil offers a different value... but one that's not as appreciable to those who are new to the game... and one that can be very scary (in all fairness, until you actually recieve your watch, for all you know replicacenter is right, this is all a big scam and you just sent your money into a black hole). Customer service is a BIG part of business, again look at Jos...

Now you have had a good turn around with TTK and it seems a fair number of people have, but also a large number of people have had significantly poorer results.

Personally (and I don't mean to TC here) I ordered a noobmariner from TTK almost a month ago... checked directly with him and was told that it should ship in under 2 weeks and sent payment immediately with request for notice if there would be any significant delays.

Since then I have had no response from him.

I emailed him once about it a few days ago politely asking for any updates.

I have had no response.

I am assuming my order is in the recent shipment that went out, but I have no confirmation of that or a tracking number to give me security.

Bear in mind this wasn't just me hoping for a timeframe, I specifically asked and was specifically told about this particular item and order.

But to be honest it does very little to make me feel comfortable or secure.

Now in all fairness I knew up front TTK was "slow" sometimes... and I am not exactly freaking out over here, but it's still not a pleasant situation to be in, despite the fact that I think I am more educated on the situation that most noobs ordering from him...

I think results from TTK vary much more than from other dealers which may lead to some of the problems, afterall if 10 people all tell you it took 2 weeks yet it's well beyond that for you and no communication what are you left to think?

It may not be out of the norm for TTK, and in fact may be nothing wrong, but how would you know?

Communication and bedside manner have a very large effect... I think more than what TTK delivers, most of the issues come from peopel who do not understand the lack of the affore mentioned services that gets peoples panties in a bunch. I would rather here bad news than be left to wonder if it's bad... undboutably I can imagine it much worse than it really is.

@TTK I agree you can't really give exact numbers, but considering the variance in your turn around times (this is from what I have learned by reading about your past transactions) I just think it might be valuable to stress how much they may vary. I would think a small effort that could help in this area is putting more enphasis on tracking numbers... I haven't got one yet, but hopefully my order is sent... I think we all understand transit time is out of your hands, but not having a tracking number makes it harder to appreciate where that deliniation is. Then you wouldn't have to try and give delivery times, but rather just shipping etas.

If you do regularly send out tracking numbers then maybe I just missed mine or something, but otherwise I see this as a valuable opportunity for you to relieve yourself of some stress. I always think it's best in busines to be actively responsible for as little time as possible. From payment to "out of your hands" in the fewest days will leave the least amount of time for people to give you any trouble. Let them hassle EMS or USPS all they want.

I mean I see the biggest concern of most people being your lack of communication (or even more your variance in communication as it feels worse to hear that others had good communication when one has not than it would to hear nobody gets good communication... at least then you feel part of the norm) so if you don't want to change the way you do business, I just think more blatant upfront warnings as to what to expect might save you some headaches and filter out some customers who would be best to not do business with and if nothing else at least help alay peoples fears a bit more to know that no communication is indeed not abnormal and not a sign of something amiss.

To be blunt (and it seems you are an upfront and blunt person so I hope you can appreciate the comment without too much offense) it seems to me that some issues could easily be avoided with only a little more work on your end. I wish everyone had the sense not to use Paypal as a weapon and I wish everyone would read up enough not to ask who has the best sub... but wishes are just that... it seems some of the situations that have come up are loosely analogous to being angry at someone for breaking the rules of you forum, but not taking into account that you skipped posting the TOS on the signup page.

Best for all involved in the end.

I think your business model is not well suited to the customer base you support.

That's how I see it anyway...

May seem like silly questions....but....Do many of the booth vendors speak any English? Are there many non-Asian tourists/buyers at the GZ watch market? Thanks

They speak enough English to do the job... they can haggle price, understand major terms (like Rolex, Panerai, Gold, Swiss etc), they know how to show you it's automatic (with a display back or by lightly hitting it in the palm of your hand) and they can point out nice features like AR or how they can run a screwdriver over the crystal and not damage it. It won't be easy like shopping at Macys but in my experience a LOT of their business is from English speaking foreigners (because Chinese people normally buy dept store watches as there is little prestige to be had from a Rolex in China... overthere probably 1 in 200 is real) and to not be able to do business would be suicide.

It's probably on par with buying things at any flea market in a big city in the states... don't try to talk about sports or weather, but you can get most business done with a surprisingly small number of words and hand genstures.

In the last month 2 packages from China have made it to the US in under a week for me...

I think RT has a watch that is about 6 months overdue... that's what he is referring to... and as far as I know even if the option were avialble to him he would not file a Paypal dispute.

I personally wish Neil would respond more regularly, but regarldess a pp dispute is not the way to go...

In all fairness though I think it might save everyone a lot of hassle if TTK made it more blatently known upfront how long his delivery times might be and how intermittant his communication may be... removing paypal may stop some issues but I am guessing it won't cut down on the numersou emails and angry posts from users who are caught unawares of the nature of business with TTK. Noobs abound... as much as the community might wish it otherwise, it does not good to just complain about it without working to address the issue. I am sorry to see that in this case the address was the loss of paypal as I find the cost of WU somewhat daunting for small orders (10% surcharge on a $140 order).

It's entirely his choice what info he wants to put up and how he wants to conduct business, but I am guessing he gets a LOT of headaches from users who it would have been better to just ward off from the get go with a warning like "To be honest you may go months before you get your watch and I may never reply to your emails. If you are not ok with that DONT BUY FROM ME!".

Just saying fair is fair, promote the 10 legitimate high value reasons to buy from TTK but don't understate what empiracally is proven to be seen by many as a negative.

Hope that wasn't too much of a TC or a OT.

I've always been curious how one gets to be a distributor of hight grade reps? Is it just having the right contacts overseas to pick and ship and then you have a pp account to broker the deal? On a $249 rep that the end user pays.. the profit has to be split between the 1. factory, 2. factory seller, 3. picker/shipper and 4. middleman/broker? Factory gets $69 for a watch they made for $25. (cogs cost of goods sold) The factory seller gets $20. The picker/shipper gets $60 and the broker gets $100 because he's got all the headaches dealing directly w/ the end user. Does that sound reasonable or am I way off?

I am far from an inside man, but during my very short watch shopping in China not anywhere near Gunzhou it took me all of 3 minutes before someone opened the "special under the table" box where the good watches are. I can't garauntee these were exactly what our dealers carry but they were very nice watches, not the cheapo day date fakes. Opening price on many was around $100 to me....

There was one Breitiling TT Nav that I can't swear but was almost certainly what we get (I recall the recessed date wheel and thinking it looked bad so didn't buy it) opening price to me was also around $100...

That quickly comes down as far as $60-70 with a little haggling...

So if thats the price on the street from a booth guy (who already probably dealt with a middleman who already bought from a factory) then I can only imagine our dealers get as good or better prices.

Bear in mind thought that's after a $1000 airplane ticket, 18+ hours each way and finding a place to stay while being there then having to sweat customs on teh way back...

So the markup from our dealers is probably huge (especially since in China even in big cities it's not uncommon to have $300 a month salaries), and probably pretty justly so...

To be fair though the guy I did buy a cheap fake from gave me his business card with a phone number and assured me he would help if anything went wrong. I figured that was BS.

I called 2 days later to ask if he would resize my bracelet, he said yes, remember who I was and said come down and anytime and he would do it for free. Not exactly a free replacement or even a replacement dial kind of service, but I do believe that a level of service from those guys is surprisingly higher than we would think... near what our dealers would give. One thing to think about is that street vendors live by the sword... it doesn't take much to loose alot of business... but even more so than legit businesses a good referal goes a LONG way... if one of those street vendors pisses you off there is a good chance you will ruin a lot of business for him. If I tell you Macys is a ripoff you will probalby not put much heed into it, but if I tell you the guy at 23rd and main will try to rob you on a watch you will probably believe me right off.

I can say I thought PAMs were a total joke when I got here... now I am starting to think a few of them on some nice brown straps are interesting... and I don't like straps... and I don't like brown...

There is something unnatural about PAMS... they are ugly... yet they may you feel they are beautiful... it's like beer and ugly girls...

It will be long 3-4 weeks of wait....

From many accounts irony in that statement may be shocking...

Still an imitation of the real thing...

Rule: If I can touch em, they're real.

Excellent post. However, as one of the tricky things in a service is the expensive oils, I expect your $13 service wouldn't stand up against a $200 The Zigmeister job.

Fitting for a rep no? Aren't we in the world of "Your $100 XXX watch is not a $10000 Gen... but good enough for the price"

Sounds awesome!! Last time I was in Guangzhou I was much younger (obviously without watch interest) and it was friggin hot... needless to say I didn't like it at all..

But around this time of year it sounds like it would be an awesome experience all around. Do they have stuff besides watches? Any leather goods etc?

Don't forget to have some Chinese food while you are there! If you are brave the little street side eateries offer some great flavors and very good value... just watch out cuz you might end up with some nasty stomach issues... it's a risk you take... just like with reps

BTW how are you planning to bring your collection back with you? Just pack in suitcases or what?

Santa?

Package arrived today!!!!

COD $74!!!

I knew something felt bad when it took almost 2 days sitting in customs.

I refused it and emailed silix to see what I should do... this sucks... remember on Christmas getting that toy you really wanted only to find out you have no batteries and the store are all closed today?

Now I am thirsty...

well well well....

im back from my business trip, was actually in shanghai.

Im still very busy but dont worry ill sort everything out with david, im a reputable member and all will be well

Ill get online later and add more as im still busy

Joe

May I ask what you were doing in Shanghai? I always wanted to go but the closest I ever got was layovers...

The band...

Yeah I feel dumb now... what with the white background and SS I overlooked the rubber of the band...

That's gotta make for an interesting look on the wrist... and by interseting I mean

They gave one of these away on the UFC this past Saturday night.... Actually it was the gaudy model with diamonds around the bezel and everywhere else, but it was a Gerge. Personally, not my cup of tea.

I didn't get a good look at it wyhen they handed it over, but it hardly seems the right timepiece for a brawny fighter...

Help me out... what part is rubber?

Unlike Tag I don't see this one taking off on the coat tail of celebrities so I would be hesitant about it as an investment...

If you like the way it looks, that's all well and good... to me it just screams no

I have to agree that cheap is in the eyes of the spender... for people who can afford to buy gens these are undoubtably cheap, but another result of the influx of new commers is that the rep world is open to the general public which includes a lot of lower income people...

I for one would say $200 for a Rolex is dirt cheap, but we are not talking bout a rolex here... we are talking about a generic watch with Rolex stamped on it... which puts it more fairly in the range of dept store watches... for which $200 is not cheap.

It's not really fair to say it's cheap (which by gen standards it is) but in the same breath say it's just a rep (which then changes the standard and it's no longer really cheap).

I don't see these as cheap genuines, I see them as expensive generics.