altesporsche

On 8/10/2023 at 9:00 AM, automatico said:

 

...or are the genuine Rolex forum posters getting nuttier?

 

I have been reading mainstream Rolex forums since back when 'dial-up' AOL was all we had and Amazon sold only books.  There were two or maybe three good forums back then and everyone was 'calm, cool, and collected,' but now it seems every other post is an "Is it real?" post.  Even when the watches have been purchased from trusted dealers or secondhand watches from an AD, they are still suspicious.

It seems that no one trusts anyone anymore and aftermarket parts are a no-no, even if many OEM parts are no longer available.

 

Something else:

On most vintage Rolex forums now, anything not 'OEM' is either Taboo!, Fake!, or Dangerous! to the health of the watch in question.  Clark crystals for instance, I have used quite a few with no problems and this also goes for crystals from GS, ST and a few others.  Not to mention using anything as 'dangerous' as an aftmkt mainspring, even if it is made by the same company that supplied mainsprings to Rolex for years.  I have used maybe 50 or 60 with no problems at all.  I've also read where posters choose to send a steel 1960s manual wind no date Oyster type watch (for example) to Rolex Service in Geneva just so they can be assured of getting 'genuine' parts because USA Authorized Service Centers will not work on it...a watch that might  sell for $2500 after  the very high $$ service.  

 

Is this 'hobby' going crazy or what?   

I think a lot of the problem with "New" Rolex collectors is that they haven't a clue. Its kind of like the used car buyers now, if anything at all even the slightest blemish the car is [censored] or immensely devalued and they badger you over it lol 

Yea DSN was never a lot of money. What made DSN famous was his Pre V parts, he was the only one selling preV case sets etc... and at times was sourcing some pretty damn good luminor based full watches. 

A huge loss to the world whether people think so or not. Certainly to me as my country being a member of the commonwealth she has been a great loss. I fear the monarchy will never be the same, will never have the same respect. She represents a different breed of people, a breed we will sadly never see again.   

31 minutes ago, Jimmythree said:

"How is that J$W case compared to say a phong?"

 

J$W = Jewelry & Watch = Phong.

 

"I have A phong now and it’s not accepting my genuine 1570/75 movement." 

 

A genuine rolex 1565/75 GMT movement and oem spec dial will fit into my J&W case and I noticed where the case has been scratched inside where the casing screws are located.  My guess is the previous owner was using a 'shortcut' GMT 15xx movement and this caused the movement not to fit as it was meant to.  A genuine 1565/75 GMT movement has a slightly thicker calendar ring (spacer) making the movement a little bit thicker than a regular 15xx date movement.  Sometimes case clamps with screws must be used in place of regular casing screws that mount inside the groove in the case.  I have needed to do this in a few projects using rolex 15xx movements with aftmkt cases.

 

Try your 15xx GMT movement with an oem spec dial in your case without casing screws and see if the dial goes all the way down inside the case and fits against the dial seat.  If it goes into the case Ok, check where the casing screw heads would be and see if it looks like the screw heads will fit inside the groove or need to be above the groove and use case clamps.  The GMT calendar ring is 1.0mm thick and a regular calendar ring is .9mm thick.  The .1mm will make a difference if the case is machined exactly same as genuine.

 

Look at the eleventh post on page 1 about case screws/clamps:

Building an MBW Sub + 'shortcut' rlx 1560/70 GMT conversions... - The Rolex Area - RWG

J3/Amc

 

Thanks for the clarification on the phong and j$W lol don’t know how I didn’t get that lol 

my movement is a genuine gmt movement, not a shortcut or built movement and the dial is gen spec. The screws are literally a fraction of a MM from being able to work. I’ve been wanting to mill slightly on the retainer ring on case but I’ve just not had the time 😅 

I can only assume the case is machine to genuine, but obviously not if my setup is slightly out, pretty much out that .1mm to fitting. So maybe the case is machined incorrectly 🤷🏼‍♂️ 
 

On 5/12/2022 at 12:41 PM, automatico said:

"... if you want to sell the gen or replica with the 15xx GMT conversion for 3K I'd be ready and willing!"

 

Thanks, I appreciate it.  

Btw, the '1655' has two problems that have bothered me...

1...The date flips part of the way at midnight but is always centered by 8 or 9am.

2...It is not a hack movement and afaik all 1655 models were.

This has no effect on the way it runs but it has always bothered me a little bit.  It has a folded oyster and 'lume dot' SS hand so it mimics a 1973 or a year or two later model.  Earlier models had straight SS hands, no lume dot.

The 1655 was introduced in 1970/71 (I've seen both dates claimed) and by 1972 all 15xx were supposedly hack movements.  From what I have read, 15xx hack movements started showing up in the late 1960s on some models. 

Who knows for sure?  Not me.

 

Over the last 10 or 15 years with genuine rolex movement and parts prices escalating yearly, I just cannot recommend putting a 15xx movement in a project watch.  This is mainly because I have genuine cases, dials etc. for the extra movements stored in cans.  I am very slow putting watch projects together and this summer I'll be putting an Asian GMT conversion in a nos ETA 2846 to put in the '1655' case after the 'shortcut' GMT movement is removed.  Until then, the '1655' will still be together to protect the movement.

 

My J$W '1655' case is a problem though because it is such a nice case that it 'deserves' a genuine movement like I stated in the first post.  The question is...would the J$W case with a genuine 1575 GMT movement be worth as much as the case, dial, hands, movement etc. sold one at a time?  Here is a guess at what these parts would sell for:

1...Genuine 1575 GMT hack movement in 90% condition with fresh c/o and new mainspring...about $4500 today going by similar movements sold on eBay.  Very few have been for sale with one on eBay now for $4950 with 'blistered' plates, number 224974170550.  One in pretty good condition sold for $4850 on April 7, 2022 and it probably would need to be c/o.  Mine is low mileage and looks like new plus c/o with new mainspring and all the genuine GMT parts are nos.

Genuine Factory Rolex 1570 1575 Caliber GMT Complete Watch Movement w/ Date Disc | eBay

2...Used J$W case complete in 90% condition with genuine case tube and crown...$750.

3...New J$W dial and hand set...about $300.

4...Aftmkt (Mary) fold-oyster with genuine clasp and WSO 580 hoods...$400.

5...Labor (free to me but not on projects put together for sale)...$250.

Total...$6200.

Imho it would be very, very hard to get $6200 for the finished watch.

 

 

"I have couple frankens with great cases and dials that I'd love to put gen movements into. My rationale here is to invest in what I have instead of buying more fakery."

 

Nothing wrong with that as long as the individual parts hold most of their value.  Today's high prices might make it a bit risky if prices happen to fall.  Looks like gasoline prices are holding up though.  Ha!

Regular gas is $4.28 around here.  Ha!  Not so funny.

 

 

How is that J$W case compared to say a phong ? 
I have A phong now and it’s not accepting my genuine 1570/75 movement 😅 it’s starting to agitate me as I’ve not been able to assemble my project. 
 

but to add to your point, yea it’s getting a bit closer to the point of not being worth using genuine movements with where the prices are going. 😅 
 

Never really noticed this before, I’ll check my dial tomorrow and see. I’ll also check the gabillion photos of gens that I have saved for comparison on my build. 
 

interesting find and detail though. Cheers ! 

7 hours ago, madasboot said:

Thank you!

do let me know if you want to try it:)

I had built a few spares

best

M.

I’ll have to snatch one of those up. I’ll shoot you a mesg when I get home in a few days. 😎

On 3/31/2022 at 11:41 PM, madasboot said:

and here it is 

Absolutely stunning ! Nice work !!

On 3/11/2022 at 11:30 AM, Swizzzz said:

Great build! Do you recall where you got the dial from?

Got it from Whoopy

13 minutes ago, automatico said:

"Been about two years trying to get this watch together." 

 

It took me about that long to put my 'shortcut 1655' together but if it was done with nothing else going on, it probably took at least 60 hours.  Have another '1655' project with a J$Wcom case/dial and all correct 1575GMT movement and it has been on the back burner for about 11 years.  Maybe I will finish it this winter.

 

 

Lol it seems the longer we have been at this the more anal about details we get 🤣🤷🏼‍♂️ 
 

what’s been holding me up is the case is a phong and it’s not fitting the keepers of the genuine 1575 correctly. So I’ve been thinning out the Inner ring by hand to accommodate using the gen screws. I get frustrated with it and then leave it for a while etc… lol

I hope it will be as good as I’m planning when it’s finished.
it’s a phong case, gen 1575 gmt movement, gen crown and stem, gen NOS crystal, Ming dial, gen NOS hands, gen correct open 6 and 9 date wheel. 
bracelet is just a rep one for now until I find the right one. 

A lot of interesting perspectives on what constitutes as a franken etc.. 

I’ve always thought of a franken to be any mix of components, from several sources and not necessarily using genuine parts. I think as time went on in this hobby, it became the norm to only consider watches with gen parts as frankens.  
 

However an otb rep with say a gen date wheel or just a gen crown installed, I wouldn’t consider that a franken. I know it goes against the basis of what I’m saying as it’s still a mismatch of parts. 
 

say we use a mix of noob and ARF Daytona parts to achieve a much better rep, that in the old days would be a franken. 
but now it seems that that term is reserved for watches with genuine parts.

but then we have the term geninstein lol what constitutes as a geninstein ? 😅🤷🏼‍♂️ 
 

Just my 2c 

On 1/5/2022 at 9:02 PM, automatico said:

"I think this may be my issue on the thickness. Or maybe something along those lines."

"This movement has been working in another GMT Watch it’s a genuine GMT movement, but I changed the date wheel to the open 6 and 9 for the 1655 and then it started to act funny on the date change."

 

The DW are the same for GMT, 1680, DJ etc, p/n 7961 but aftmkt DWs may not be exactly on spec.  My 'shortcut 1655' has an aftmkt DW and it does not flip all at once but goes about half way at 12 but it is always centered the next morning so I left it alone.  Mine may be a weak 'calendar yoke spring' but I do not want to r/r the hands and dial to get to it.

 

Lay the DW on a sheet of glass or flat metal and see if it is flat to begin with because it does not take much to hang them up.

Something else that can cause the DW to hang up is if the inside diameter of an aftmkt (or genuine) DW has rough leaves (aka teeth) and it hangs up when the little index arm tries to center it after a change.  This might also be the cause of mine hanging up.  If the teeth are rough, you can roll a piece of 1000 or 1500 sandpaper on a toothpick and run it through the gaps in the teeth and roll it over the teeth to smooth them down a little.  

If the numbers do not center in the dial window after the date changes, you can adjust the little screw on the end of the index spring/arm to center the numbers.

Thanks for the input, I’m going to have another look at it today and I’ll have a look deeper in detail to the potential bur that you mention. 
 

it’s a genuine NOS date wheel for the 1655 so I really hope to get it working lol 😅 

been about two years trying to get this watch together. 

4 minutes ago, automatico said:

I looked at a genuine rlx 1565/1575 GMT DW spacer ring and it does have the small crimp exactly like yours.

A genuine rlx 1565/1575 date movement spacer ring also has the small crimp.

 

Iirc a 1565/1575 date spacer is .9mm thick and the 1565/1575 GMT spacer is 1.0mm.  I can look at them again tomorrow if you need the measurements.  The GMT DW spacer has to be a little bit thicker so the dial will clear the 24H wheel etc.

I think this may be my issue on the thickness. Or maybe something along those lines. 
 

this movement has been working in another GMT Watch it’s a genuine GMT movement, but I changed the date wheel to the open 6 and 9 for the 1655 and then it started to act funny on the date change. 
 

im thinking potentially the date wheel for the GMT’s may be thinner than the date wheel for the others 🤷🏼‍♂️ I need to measure as it seems like this date wheel is hanging up vs the date wheel that was in it. 

13 hours ago, Ronin said:

That looks like damage to me.

I thought the same, but all of the spacers I’ve seen now are like that for the 15XX

Hey fellas, 

just in the process of assembling a long standing project 1655. 

my date ring looks like it has a crimp on it that I’m unsure if it’s supposed to be there 🤷🏼‍♂️😅 

I’m having an issue of the date setting correctly, so I’m wondering if this is the cause. 
 

please see the photos for those who have experience with this movement and give some ideas on what’s up or whether this little crimp should be or not be there 😅

Hey fellas, This is purely out of curiosity than anything. The same dealer ive been going to for several years now and has been ultra quick and good to deal with, suddenly became half annoying to deal with.  Taking forever to reply to emails and dragging his heels on getting me watches etc.. I know things are messed up all over but, this is becoming a bit much. 

Anyone else having issues like this ? Maybe i need to start dealing with someone else. 

LOL so im not the only one getting newbie awards for a year of membership on my I think 12th year or something, maybe longer lol 

Beauty  build !  I love those ! I built one a few years back and loved it ! 

42 minutes ago, hologramet said:

RJ.

Bivintagestore is the go-to Guy for cases (he makes the base cases with custom engravings and the whole shebang).

Regarding inserts ”crownartcustoms” is the go-to guy nowadays.

PM me for contact info to both.

You too J!

We’be been missing you!

Yeah… I sold parts to taiwanese/hong long the last 2-3 years for absurd sums. No doubt about where the cash is currently.

Who are these contacts you mention for cases etc ? I’ve never heard of either before, but in saying that I’ve also not been on the forums much in the past year or so. 😅

12 minutes ago, Sogeha said:

Noob version is literally the first hit on a google search. I've given up spoon feeding unknown guys on their first post since not one of the ones I've given information to has ever stuck around to contribute a single thing to the forum and I got a couple of snotty DMs from guys with buyers regret

 

Anyone who wants to learn and willing to read, I'll help as much as I can. Anyone not prepared to put the slightest effort in themselves, less so

I get what you’re saying and I’m with you 100% on that point of view, however it’s just as easy to spoon feed the simple answer as it was to shoot it down. 
 

Noob questions are annoying, especially when they are frequent, but also some of these fellas or ladies could be new and unaware of the forum etiquette and just tossing out these questions with then the regret after when they realize certain form is expected. 
lol I know this all too well as I was one of those asking silly repetitive questions that were likely answered a million times, but getting answered and learning by those answers is what got me into being interested in this hobby. 🤷🏼‍♂️  
 

either way I was picking at you lol just felt like it was a simple question to answer. 

On 5/25/2021 at 7:40 AM, Theperfectwatch said:

Hi ,

 

Hereby I would like to know which is currently the best version of Pam 111 available on the market and closer to 1;1

Thank you for any suggestion

I know this is an old post but i feel like an answer was easier than to ridicule over the 1:1 thing.....

The best of recent years is the Noob V4 as a start. Some will argue that its not even close, but for an OTB its pretty good, however if you can find a Marlin 111 then that will be hands down the closest you will get without going with a franken.  As the fellas said above, there is no such thing as 1:1, but these two i mentioned are a good representation of the original.  

Welcome back ole chap ! 

On 3/3/2021 at 3:38 AM, alligoat said:

I've always seen them called Maxi dials

Me too, the only thing I've ever heard referred to as lollipop is the seconds hand of the early SUB 6538, 6536.   

I’m in the middle of a 2 year long quest to build a 1655. I have everything now and the movement now doesn’t fit in my phong case lol the retainer grove needs to be teamed out a fraction of a MM to get it to fit. 
but I also have one of those cArtel cases and they are very good when massaged a bit. 
 

thanks for posting your findings. There is a lack of showing what people have done for builds these days to one cut cost and maintain accuracy.  

I’m in if this comes through ! @Athaya