themuck

This is a very brief initial review. I will compile and post the full version either later today or tomorrow depending on how long it takes me to complete. The SSD has survived saturation in a Heliox environment and multiple deep sea dives while being used and abused by the Diver in the same way as then gen. The work being undertaken by the Diver with the watch on his wrist throughout the test was in a particularly harsh environment with significant and highly caustic pollutants in the water and this may have been a factor in the spots of discoloration visible in the post sat photo I've posted below. My camera skills are non existant and this is obvious when you see some of the side by side comparison shots I took, many of which are unfortunately a bit blurry. I've only uploaded three stills in this brief initial review and will post the rest in the full version. The videos of every dive are being transferred to DVD for me on Monday and I will upload these to YouTube after editing out all the footage that doesn't include the watch (many many hours) and dubbing the voice audio of the Diver and Diving Supervisor for obvious reasons. Prior to blowing the watch into saturation, the SSD was scrutinised by a total of twelve saturation Divers, four Diving Supervisors and one Diving Superintendent, the majority of whom have gens. The initial reaction by all of them when they observed the watch on my wrist was that it is a genuine Sea Dweller. However, after I took the watch off and they examined the watch in their own hands, they made a number of comments including - "The face just doesn't look right around the edges of the crystal" (I think this might be the rehaut issue) "That pearl is wrong" None of the Divers and only one Diving Supervisor noticed the crown guards were slightly different. I noted many more comments and will include them in the full test review but this confirms that all the comments already made about the SSD on this forum and elsewhere are correct. By far the majority of comments were made about the bracelet with everyone stating it doesn't feel like the gen and the clasp doesn't operate like the gen. Apart from the fact that the bracelet was attached to the watch the wrong way round, the comments included - "The bracelet doesn't feel right and it sounds wrong when you use it" (I noticed this as well when trying on the gen - the bracelet of the gen does sound different from the SSD when picking the watch up and attaching it to your wrist) "The finish of the links isn't right at the edges" "There is some lack of flexibility and two links are sticking" (I think this will probably 'loosen up' with use), "The clasp is too tight and doesn't click in correctly" (I also noticed the clasp of the gen works much smoother than the SSD and I think this is a design issue that wont get any better with use) I noted a lot more comments and I will include these in the full test review but hopefully this will give you an idea of where everyone is coming from regarding the bracelet. The HEV issue caused a bit of confusion for me and a lot of wind up opportunities for the Divers. It works in the opposite direction to that which I initially thought and automatically deploys when the gas pressure within the watch exceeds the exterior environment. To test this, the Diver unscrewed the crown immediately prior to decompression in the chambers to allow the Heliox to enter the watch, he then fully screwed the crown back in and placed the watch between two pillows that were taped together. This procedure ensured that if the HEV failed and the watch exploded, no damage would be done to the Divers or the chambers. The decompression was undertaken on a modified US Navy table that is very slow with 2 hour and 6 hour holds at various depths. I cannot state the depth for operational reasons but it may be safe to say that the HEV probably worked in the same manner as the gen because the Heliox inside the watch would have been a number of times greater relative to the external environment throughout the decompression and especially when reaching the surface if the HEV had failed. The crown was unscrewed when reaching surface and no escaping gas was heard. Pre Test Sorry - I had to remove the original photo of the SSD with the Diving Helmet I originally posted because of the reflection in the chrome that I didn't notice and worked like a mirror that would reveal the test location. During Test Video to follow on YouTube Post sat Side By Side By the way - We did a little test with the SSD and the gen used in the side by side comparison shots on a member of the marine crew (non diving) just to see which one he thought was the gen - after examing them both closely and trying them both on his wrist...he picked the SSD...

Quick Update SSD now decompressing - on surface this Saturday - initial review Sunday / Monday - full review with pics and video Monday / Tuesday Diver reports watch keeping good time (+/- a few seconds a day), no flooding and no fogging themuck

Now I'm intrigued!!! - and more than a little bit embarassed - more than two decades in the industry and I'm still learning...I've heard of a few guys saying they needed to manually release the gas from their watches during decompression and there I was assuming that the HEV on the Sea Dweller had to be depressed only to now find out that it deploys automatically in the opposite direction when the pressure inside the watch exceeds the exterior pressure - no wonder my trusted dealer didn't respond to my question lol. I asked the guys in the chambers about this tonight and they understood why I would have thought that because many watches used (including the Seamaster) in the industry have to done manually - it didn't stop them ripping me for it though lol . I was only slightly less embarassed when one of the divers (who doesn't own an SD) and a few of the topside crew said they thought it needed to be manually pressed as well so it wasn't just me that learned something new today . Apparently the design is very clever and is theoretically working all the time so the 'functional' HEV in the rep could be true and we have an idea as to how this could be tested. We are taking measures to ensure there will be no damage to the divers or the chamber if it does explode during decompression but if it survives I suppose we can assume that it does work if, before we start the decompression, the diver unscrews the crown to its maximum extent to allow Heliox into the watch then screw the crown back in and start the decompression. Many thanks for the info FxrAndy and those original old Comex valve sketches are brilliant - and confirmed my previous assumptions about how the HEV worked were nonsense. Apparently the instructions for some gens do state that manual HEV's should never be used in the water...and one of the divers I spoke to about this tonight who owns a gen SD thinks he remembers seeing something about never using the HEV in the water in the instructions he got with his SD SportsRider - and I can recall listening to many conversations over the years about the Submariner vs the Sea Dweller and all the arguing back and forth about the HEV...I just didn't realise it worked in the opposite direction because it was always referred to as the HEV button - Quick Update - no diving today because of weather, should be back in the water tomorrow if weather forecast correct - SSD working well after 24 hours+ in Heliox saturation and first deep water dive

The HEV was already sealed SportsterRider and I understand this is part of the waterproofing process because I wanted my Seamaster waterproofed and the HE release crown needed to be be sealed solid and could not be unscrewed. I also noticed that the SSD HEV was billed as being functional and it was the first thing I tested when I received the the watch. It was also one of the questions I asked the trusted dealer when I was confirming the safe operating depth of the waterproofing but I didn't get an answer on that point so I proceedd with the test assuming it was the same situation I had with my Seamaster. Interestingly, the instructions for the gen specifically state that the HEV must never be depressed in the water and must only be used in the chamber during decompression to release any heliox that has penetrated the interior. Depressing the HEV exposes the watch interior and if the water is at a higher pressure than the interior the movement will flood...so if the rep's HEV has been constructed to be waterproof (correct seals etc) and it isn't depressed in the water then it should still be waterproof so there's possibly no need to secure it!!!

After reading the numerous outstanding reviews of numerous reps here at RWG and benefitting from the amazing knowledge of so many forum members, this is the least I can do to give something back to my fellow enthusiasts who have given me so much over the last year or so jmt. All I ask is that everyone perhaps considers working with me on this one and let me know what you would like to see so I can arrange the right pics and possibly videos - and what questions would you like me to ask the divers about the SSD (most of them have the gens)? This is my first test / review and I want it to be as worthwhile / educational / interesting as possible so please advise me and I'll do my very best to deliver for you.

I agree with you 100% cskent69 and I hope the trusted dealers look at all the comments already made about the SDD and incorporate them as soon as possible because the amendments needed to make the SDD a true mirror of the gen in every way seem to be minor...and if this watch survives the treatment it is currently enduring then it will easily survive out of the water to become an absolute must have and the all time best selling rep...that would also possibly drive the rep cost down to around 2%-3% of the gen, which costs $5000-$6000 depending on which continent you buy it.

The SSD is performing well at the moment but I am being cautious because it has a lot of dives and many more hours in the water to survive before the test is complete. And it will have to be performing very well to live through the decompression because the HEV valve does not depress (part of the waterproofing process) so if any helium has penetrated the case it cannot escape in the same way as the gen...we have already taken steps to ensure it cannot harm the divers or the chamber if it explodes during or after the decompression. In addition, I've noted a lot of comments already made by many of the divers prior to the test (who all have gens) and I'll include their pre and post test observations in the review...mostly positive so far but quite a few negatives as well... ...I still voted for it to be a super rep though...

Many thanks for the input everyone and I'll try to get as many subsea pics as possible I haven't heard of anyone being reluctant to dive with the old Comex but I know there are a lot of guys who either lost, binned or gave them away - they were regarded as throwaways and many damaged or broken examples were found just lying around or taped to the side of bells etc - they all regret it now that they fetch plenty on ebay. The diver who is testing the SSD is currently living in Heliox saturation at depth in the chambers and is using it as his main watch. He doesn't need a back up as he is constantly under supervision and directed from the surface. He'll be decompressing in the chambers in a few days or so with the watch and will arrive on surface with the watch a few days later. I can decompress the watch at any time but I want it to undergo exactly the same conditions that the gen was designed for and regularly faces - including daily deep water dives. Saturation divers don't use dive computers as everything is controlled from the surface. I'll be happy to arrange the same test for any of the new generation of super reps that have been pressure tested so if there is an example available of the BR 02 available please let me now and I'll organise the test - and if there are any trusted dealers interested in proving their new pressure tested super reps are as good as the gens in the real world, please get in touch. Further comments and suggestions will also be warmly welcomed as I want this test to be as robust, relevant and detailed as possible. N.B. Just a quick update - all commercial sat dives are recorded (video from hat cameras etc plus all audio) and the watch was easily visible while the diver was working during the SSD's first dive. He also removed the watch from his wrist and held it in front of one of the cameras to show it working at depth and prove it is the SSD and not the gen. I will get a copies of all the dive recordings and upload captured stills at the end of the test.

Please submit in reply to this topic all subsea or surface pics, tests etc or anything else you would like me or the diver to include that will enhance the test / review.

New Super Sea Dweller received from trusted dealer on Wednesday. Trusted dealer confirmed SSD pressure tested to 100m / 10 Bar on Thursday. Blowdown on Heliox to (location and depth undisclosed for operational reasons) storage depth in professional saturation decompression chamber yesterday (Friday). First SSD commercial deep dive on professional saturation diver's wrist (4 hour duration) today (Saturday) - no leaks, strong lume and keeping time (5-10 secs a day drift). SSD kept in chamber at depth in Heliox throughout test except for daily deep water dives (4 hours) throughout next week plus decompression. Full test review, pics and possibly video (pre sat, inside chamber, during dives , post sat and side by side comparisons) will be posted here on completion.

Thanks for that one Epoch and Fitmic. Watched the topics and discussions about perfect reps for a long time and hadn't heard that one mentioned before. I've followed all the advice on the forums and have chosen my dealer before choosing my first reps. Ordered three so far but hadn't considered the Omega Constellation Double Eagle. Do you have one and can you suggest a source coz my chosen dealer doesn't have one.

Is the jury(s) still out on this one or does anyone yet know which is the most accurate of the 2007 releases and what are the flaws...if any I'm recently back after working away for a while so apologies if my research on this isn't up to scratch...so no reaming please if I've missed something...

The poll at the end of last year produced the following results - The Most Accurate Rep Of 2006 1 - (25.93%) OMEGA PLANET OCEAN 2 - (22.22%) IWC Ingenieur 3 - (20.99%) Tag Heuer Link Chrono 4 - (12.35%) Omega Seamaster Chrono 5 - ( 4.94%) Franck Muller Conquistador 6 - ( 3.70%) PAM 050 7 = ( 2.47%) Breitling Bentley GT, IWC Flieger Chrono, Omega Seamaster Pro, Tag Heuer Link This was before the super reps (HBB, APROO, BCE etc) appeared at the start of 2007

We're going diving again so I'll have to be quick. @gioarmani - no offence taken friend. @nanuq - the deepest 'dry' dive in diving history (chamber simulated) was around 1,800 feet - no commercial dive (diver) has ever gone to this depth - do you mean 180 feet? If not, please PM me with details. @z80 - the best reason for having an He valve is that they work and avert an inherent danger in all watches exposed to He in pressurised saturation over lengthy periods (accurately explained by nanuq - watch crystals can and do 'pop off' at very high speed - possibly with over 10+ tons of back pressure helping them on their way). I've printed off all the topic responses and will do my best to post a reply ASAP - hopefully tomorrow depending on workload. Apologies for the short post themuck

Thanks for the reply gioarmani and of course you are right I do have a low post count after finding this site just over a month ago. However, I also have over twenty years experience as a qualified professional (three year offshore training and multiple exams) in the offshore deep sea diving industry - in fact I am currently offshore now on a deep sea diving vessel where we have nine divers currently in saturation diving chambers. The only reason I have the time to write this is because we are unable to dive because of weather. ...and I don't care what Omega or Rolex have said or are saying - the last thing I would do is tell them how to make watches and the last thing they can do is tell me about the deep sea saturation diving industry...especially if the stuff you've posted is from any 'official' source - to be honest some of it is quite laughable but, of course, that's to be expected coz they aren't qualified deep sea saturation diving professionals are they!!! Anyway, I'll post a proper response to this thread when I have time but please remember we do a 12 hours on and 12 hours off shift system so I might be too tired today. Just to start tho - divers do not dive for several days - divers live in saturation diving chambers for up to 28 days and transfer to the bell in teams for the duration of the dive only before transferring back to the chambers...and as far as the physics goes - yes I am qualified and experienced with Archimedes, Boyles, Charles', Dalton's, Henry's etc etc - by the way, the term saturation refers to the fact that a divers body is saturated with a helium and oxygen mix of gases under pressure...and so is his watch (and everything else in the chamber)

Please do not post this thread in the Knowledge Base offshore because there are a number of incorrect and inaccurate statements here. I will post the reasons why He escape valves are included in professional deep sea diving watches later because I am currently working and cannot commit the time. I am a qualified deep sea diving professional currently working on a diving vessel and will post the facts you need when I complete my current working shift.

The two polls that have been running for the last few weeks have produced the following results - The Most Accurate Rep Of 2006 25.93% OMEGA PLANET OCEAN 22.22% IWC Ingenieur 20.99% Tag Heuer Link Chrono 12.35% Omega Seamaster Chrono 4.94% Franck Muller Conquistador 3.70% PAM 050 =2.47% Breitling Bentley GT, IWC Flieger Chrono, Omega Seamaster Pro, Tag Heuer Link Your Favourite Rep Of 2006 27.48% OMEGA PLANET OCEAN 18.32% IWC Ingenieur 12.21% Omega Seamaster Chrono 9.92% Tag Heuer Link Chrono 9.16% Franck Muller Conquistador =6.87% Breitling Bentley GT, Omega Seamaster Pro 5.34% PAM 050 2.29% Tag Heuer Link 1.53% IWC Flieger Chrono I'm off to work overseas for about a month or two and it will be interesting to see what starts to challenge the Planet Ocean when I get back now that the new 'Super Reps' have started to emerge...where will the HBB, AP ROO etc etc be placed at the end of 2007? ...and then there's the new Silix and Richard Tracy 1:1... ...and then there's Andrew, Josh', Angus' and others new 1:1 projects... HAPPY & HEALTHY NEW YEAR TO MEMBERS & EVERYONE AT RWG & YOUR LOVED ONES

Ubiquitous...what can I say...thank you very much indeed just isn't enough in this instance I have a great deal to think about over the next month or two while I'm working overseas - I leave on Wednesday with lots of decisions to make...and lots of advice, guidance, tips and knowledge gained through this and other forums that I've printed for reference and will take with me to study. I think we might have to agree to disagree on this one for the moment Omega-Reign ..although I confess to perhaps focussing my sympathy on the unfortunate victim of the German AP ROO scam discussed elsewhere, which has possibly clouded my judgement on the bigger picture :cc_confused: With the New Year celebrations and my travels on Wednesday , I may not have the chance to discuss matters with you all for some time Until Next Time - Thank You All So Very Much themuck

On second thoughts - I should have PM'd that last bit - please forgive me...I'm a Noob...sorry

As usual, good points well made guys. @Mods - I know this is slightly off topic but I'm just responding to excellent points about scamming victims made by established and knowledgeable members - apologies. I do feel sorry for those who are lulled into a false sense of security by a professional listing that is backed up by thousands of positive feedback, powerseller status and the fact that the seller has hundreds of other gen watches currently on ebay that are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars - each!!! That's what happened yesterday when someone dropped E8,550 on the blatant AP ROO fake from the German dealer that was 'outed' elsewhere in the Auction Scams section. With regard to research - I fully agree that you must do everything you can to ensure that any investment decision you make (from $100 to $10k) is made with all the information and knowledge you can possibly obtain. But, judging by the amount of time and effort I have spent over previous months looking for that elusive Daytona, most people will not go to that sort of lengths and will ultimately trust those that are established and seem to have the right credentials. Should we really have no sympathy for those that aren't as interested in reps as we are (and wouldn't know a rep even if it said Boleks on the dial) and simply trust an established seller? Do we really research absolutely everything so well that every purchase we make is the very best one - has nobody bought a car that was a dud only to find out that others would have spotted its problems - and now they think we're dumb just because we don't have the knowledge that they do - and why would we? You make a good point about sixth sense or that gut feeling you just sometimes get about something Omega Reign - maybe that's why I wasn't duped by the dozens of scam rep sites I've seen coz something just wasn't right and eventually I found RWG and was thankful that I kept digging - but others aren't so fortunate even when they've done a decent amount of research (took me a while to find this forum). And ubiquitous, I've read your posts and saw your pics all over the place and nobody could not be impressed by your projects. But just how difficult is such a project - sourcing the right parts, waiting forever to get them, assembly, calibration, pressure testing etc etc - a year is a long time. Is there an easier way than this and should a Noob even be considering such a thing? I certainly wasn't but it seems obvious that to get a timepiece of the quality I'm looking for I've either got to save up and build it (what's the ballpark for a Daytona like yours?) or save up forever and buy the gen. Thanks Again Guys Happy & Healthy New Year To You All & Your Families N.B. What do you guys think of those gorgeous Daytonas from Angus - http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/pure...A%20GOLD%20NEW/ Am I asking for embarrassing trouble with these or are they good enough to get away with? Or should I be looking at these - http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_p...amp;cPath=1_103 Are they really more accurate and reliable? I know the vintage gens are rarer so are the chances of being 'called' slimmer? @Mods - sorry for this off topic bit but these guys really know their stuff and seems like common sense to ask them for their considered opinions (just doing my research friends...just doing my research).

I agree with you Gunnar Gran but I believe that the highly experienced and knowledgeable members on this forum will spot a rep no matter how good it is - the excellent rep Daytona that's currently being scrutinised in the Auction Scams section demonstrates that no matter how good the scammer or the rep is, the members here know what to look for and how to spot them. And with the excellent new 1:1's that are coming on to the market that nobody will be able to 'call' you on - the members here know these reps and their gens inside out and will expose anyone trying to pass them off as real and tries to scam money out of victims in an ebay fraud.

There is definitely redress against the seller with Paypal Katerchen but only if the buyer is pretty quick and gets the payment stopped / account frozen / suspended after he / she gets it checked and confirmed as a fake. But looking at the description and the photos - if someone actually bids on this and then actually buys it without checking and researching the facts (even tho the listing and seller seems totally genuine), then I think the chances of them getting it checked before it needs a service or repair is remote. I too feel very sorry for the buyer because, without this site, I (and no doubt many others) could easily be lulled into a false sense of security and buy a rep from these scammers because of the quality of the listing along with the sellers feedback and powerseller status. I was always sceptical about ebay and now I know for sure (especially after contacting them with the numerous flaws on this watch) - they are only interested in profit and customers come way down on their list of priorities...when on the bay - buyer beware.

Thanks for the pics ubiquitous - I've already spent quite some time admiring your project elsewhere on this forum. For a Noob like me, it's just too much $ to risk coz I aint got the skills, the experience, the $, the knowledge the....list is long... Searching for the Daytonas I've always wanted accidentally lead me to this forum (after months of looking elsewhere - the usual scam dealer / review sites, garbage China & Taiwan 'dealers' etc) and I've spent obscene amounts of time reading and researching here, at TRC, RWI, every dealer site and everywhere else only to come to the conclusion that I'll probably never get an accurate and reliable rep Daytona...and saved myself hundreds of dollars worth of disappointment at the same time - although not pulling the trigger on two or three of these has proved to be very difficult to say the least -http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/puretime/WATCHES/ROLEX/DAYTONA/DAYTONA%20GOLD%20NEW/ Having said that, your project demonstrates that this type of quality is achievable if the will was there with the manufacturers so maybe there is still some hope for the distant future...and the rep this scammer is trying to pass off also shows that very accurate Daytonas are obtainable and are only 'spottable' by the highly knowledgeable - i.e the outstanding and amazingly observant members of this forum. Because of the posts on the forums, I'm taking a look at vintage Daytonas coz apparently they are closer to the gen and more reliable than the 'doctored' secs@6 models but I reckon they too are flawed and guys of your calibre would spot them in a heartbeat from across the room - so I probably wont bother with them either...unless you guys tell me differently of course I've kinda gone off topic guys and I apologise for this but I'm kinda just letting you guys know that I fully acknowledge and respect your expertise (that you have demonstrated yet again in this new thread) and also just pass on how much I (and many others) appreciate the fact that you guys are prepared to share your knowledge with others...and help prevent any of us spending real money on 'real' reps. It's Genuinely Appreciated - Thank You All

WOW - that is awesome guys. You've spotted details that only a knowledgeable enthusiast would ever know about. Nice One - You Guys Are A Credit To This Forum

Excuse my ignorance ubiquitous but are you saying this is indeed a replica or is it a gen with aftermarket modification...or something else? ...and is this an auction scam? If anyone knows where I can get a rep like this out of the box, please point me in the right direction - PM would be warmly welcomed if you prefer not to post. Many Thanks