By-Tor

Woooohoooo! Congrats Dluddy!

You even have the bezel numbers positioned perfectly. Guess I no longer have the best Polar Explorer.

But my pics are nicer!

Torn between only 2?

Well... I'm usually torn between at least 5 or 6 watches... and usually end up buying nothing. I often admire my own self control.

Dang, I was just going to buy one of those reps for $1K or so... thanks for telling us Pugs!

Great photo as usual Robbie!

You could make them a little bigger though... like in 800x width or something.

maybe you missed my question or I missed your answer..how about ths braceletsize? Mine is certainly not for a big wrist.

Oh, but I answered that already. I wrote about the bracelet size in review itself, and again to carlsbadrolex in this post.

This is just further proof that members should be aware of what they buy. High price doesn't necessarily mean better visual accuracy in reps.

Some dealers sell certain models of Submariner and Yacht-Master for $400+, and they're visually inferior to a $95 Noobmariner in every possible way. Crazy, yes... but no one is forced to buy these bad and overpriced reps... and they won't, if they bothered to do even some most basic research here.

A fool and his money are easily parted. Nothing new here.

PS: This thread is just another example why this forum is important. Good observations!

@Toad, I'll take some, but meanwhile you can check out Capice's pictorial here. Lots of comparison shots there (scroll the post down).

PS: I found a few pics of the gen black version (for people who are interested).

The black is very nice, but can it compete against this? Mmm... I don't think so.

Thanks LR.

Here's a 1024x768 sized wallpaper. From the same "series" as one of the review shots... just bigger.

Double-click for full size.

Cool idea Ubi. Maybe I'll join in later.

PS: Are you often wearing your watches "Maradona style"?

Thanks Ubi. I knew you'd like it.

This wears bigger than Daytona, which (imho) doesn't wear as big as 40mm (although it is)... the caseback has been designed so it doesn't sit very high on the wrist, and the overall look is very "slim". Aquaracer day-date is listed as same 43mm, but looks bigger in ever possible way, due to thicker case and different, blocky design. Perhaps those large protruded Daytona-like pushers and crown "shrink" the watch too.

I try to post some comparison shots today.

BT, see you thought we didnt love you!!! You have once again proven that the time and dedication needed to produce a stellar review IS appreciated by the masses.

This is a perfect example of what people see in this community! And I personally thank you!

NOW, on to the tech specs and pics included in your review... YOU NO GOOD %^#$&**&^%.

I should throw you a spanking like you wouldnt believe! You know damn well Im on a chrono buying spree and then you go and do this to me.

NOW I HAVE to order both a black and white dial.

I did read mention of a tight bracelet. Did they pull a BnM Rivierra and make all the bracelets extra short? Is my 7.75 wrist going to fit in one of these?

Thanks again, BT incredible review!

You're welcome man.

Regarding the bracelet... it (barely) fits my '8 wrist with all links intact, but it's tight. But that's perfect for me, because I wear all my watches very tight... always had. It's not ridiculously tight though... just comfortably tight (for me)... very little free space between the wrist and band. Just like my gen Rolex Oyster band... all links intact and micro adjustment to the second last one. Tight but not too tight.

There's no micro adjustment on this Ebel... so if you like a "loose fit" you'd better ask an extra link from your dealer. There's not much difference between '7.75 and '8.

Navitimer bracelet won't fit my wrist at all, and this bracelet is definitely larger. But again... it all depends how you prefer to wear it.

@blade007: Read the review again. I mentioned the flaws (overly protruded pushers and the crown, which doesn't screw in enough). Very small flaws, imho. My SEL vs. lugs gap is almost non-existant, but there seems to be much bigger gap on capice's and Lewis' watches. Looks like a typical QC issue to me.

Excellent review thanks BT.......again

What is interesting to note is that at one time rep manufacturers would not reproduce watches that were on the lower end of the market (1 to 3K) as the theory was that most could afford the gen.

Now however we are not only seeing these watches but they are coming out as super reps.

I think the main reason behind this, is that the "low-end" genuines (if you can call $2-$3K watches "low end") utilize the ETA 7750 movements. Just as I stated in the review, the more expensive BTR uses an inhouse movement which can't be replicated properly (due to spacing). Of course the more accurate replicas sell better:

There are lots of examples: Breitlings, TAG Link Chrono, Seamaster Chrono, Aquaracer, etc. etc.

All are "low end" luxury watches... but I doubt the gen counterpart being "affordable" is the biggest factor of their success, it's the accuracy. On the other hand... how much did the Planet Ocean chrono sell? Not much, and the dealers offer it in big discounts to clean their stocks. It didn't sell, because the spacing was off.

If you think about it, the only "high end" chronograph with correct subdial spacing (in reps) is the seconds at '6 Daytona. Because we're stuck with A7750 we (most likely) will never see accurate reps of Zenith Flyback, TAG Link Calibre 36, Ebel BTR, Omega Speedmaster, PO Chrono, etc. The wrong spacing IS a big issue to many.

Thanks for an excellent review! Im sold

Whilst a genuine 1911 is a nice idea and I did seriously consider purchasing one a few months ago the deappreciation on them if your decided to sell it on is crazy. It cant hold its value on the pre owned market like a Rolex or Omega, expect to sell at a 40% loss. Thats the only reason that put me off from purchasing an Ebel although the company do seem to be spending alot on its brand awareness.

That's a good observation. Ebels depreciate a lot, and you can find good deals of them in the preowned market. Especially of those 80'S models, which (like I stated in my review) aren't always very desirable (design wise). But then again pretty much all luxury watches, except Rolex stainless steel sports models depreciate in a rapid rate. I doubt Ebel is any worse than Chopard, IWC or DeWitt in that regard.

And Rolex dress models, and even twotone/gold sports models lose their value badly. More bling = less value in the 2nd hand market.

You can find lots of great gen Ebels, Omegas and Breitlings for cheap (if the design isn't "trendy" by today's standards). Most of the older models are very small (35-36mm), which seems to be directly tied to the low value.

Great review as usual, BT, thnx!!!!!

I remember having seen dark grey subdials instead of black subdials on the gen panda. Is that accurate on the rep?

Thanks man.

Yes, they're definitely accurate on the rep... my studio setup has very strong light exposure and I tend to add some extra contrast to the pics. Check the natural light wrist shot (or Lewis' picture above), they're dark "grey" and "brownish"... and look black only from certain angles.

Dial isn't pure white, either... it's "yellowish" warm white. But the double AR is "blueish" and very strong, which lessens the "yellow effect" (again on a direct light exposure). Blue and yellow are opposite in the color map, so the dial color can vary, depending on the light (and angle).

I think Doc's not the only one that needs a new watch. I think I'll need to get a Homer Tourbillon in Rose Gold on payday.

A new watch helps (temporarily) to many frustrations... but "Tourbillon Rose Gold" sounds like you have BIG frustrations.

Thanks all! I'm both surprised and delighted of this great response.

@FxrAndy: I'd love to start working in advertising... creating watch ads would be a "dream job" for me. But looks like I'm doomed to be a bouncer/music magazine maker-up for life... well at least nobody from the watch biz has contacted me yet.

@Chino: I measured it again, and the width is sharp 43mm. I will shoot it next to my other watches later today, so you'll get better comparison. This is NOT a big watch, and definitely not 44.5mm... and as stated before the shape of the lugs & watch head make it wear MUCH smaller. Why would it be 44.5mm... the gen is 43mm and so is the rep.

@Alextor: Great to see you mate!

I think the pessimism on the forum is a reflection of the pessimism in America today.

Could be. But keep in mind that more than half of the RWG members don't come from America... and we only have a few US-based members in the admin team.

I think the pessimism is just normal for some seasoned members, who have lost their passion for this hobby. It probably goes in cycles. I think Doc just needs a few new watches.

By-tor, how many watches do you have left in your collection?

Not so many Pugs:

SFSO ETA

Aquaracer Chrono

Bond Seamaster ETA

Bond Seamaster Chrono

Franken Explorer II

Genuine GMT Master II

and this new Ebel Discovery Chrono

All keepers (which means: regular wearers).

Then I have one broken CHS GMT II replica, which is awaiting for a dangerous operation (or a heart transplant, if that fails). Actually I have one rep still coming, on top of these.

PS: I added a RapidShare link to a Ebel promotional hires movie (see the end of my review). It's definitely worth watching.

I could be sorely tempted by the black faced version.

You know, this is the first time I'm actually considering getting a "double". I'd love to get the black one too.

But I haven't seen even one real-life picture of that version. Would be interesting.

OK...let me be one of the first to thank you for writing this. The last shot is amazing on your famous red nubbly thing. This is definitely one of the pieces I'm thinking of getting, but I'm drawn to the "value" that the Skyland offers, given it's almost $100 less than the Discovery.

Do you think the additional expense is warranted? Would it be based on the construction and finish of the bracelet?

Again...nice write-up as always. It is interesting to note you say it feels smaller than what it measures. It has a nice balanced look on your wrist similar to your Aquaracer.

Yes, it's definitely not 44.5mm, as advertised by the dealers. It's sharp 43mm, just like the gen. I don't know why it's even advertised as 44.5mm.

It wears significantly smaller than the Aquaracer chrono, no question about it. The watch head is small and the bracelet is rounded. It feels like a 40mm watch, and the huge pushers and crown "shrink" it even more, just like Daytona (which feels smaller than 40mm). No worries at all for the smaller guys... very balanced size.

I can't comment how this compares to the Skyland, never seen it in person. But I like to have watches of different brands and styles... Skyland is a pure "bulky" sports watch... and God knows I have enough of those. This is WAY more dressier and more elegant. Will be my #1 choice with a suit. But of course, those are the famous "personal preferences"... Discovery simply filled the "gap" in my collection... especially after my brother "adopted" my white Broad Arrow.

Finally I got this watch! I have become very selective with my new purchases lately, and this is my first replica acquisition in 10 months!
 
I've been searching for a good rep of Ebel 1911 Chronograph since I came to this community, and I actually bought one from Richard Lawton in May, 2005.
 
That watch has been documented, just like almost all the replicas I have owned. See the article HERE. I also purchased a BTR/fantasy replica from Narikaa a year ago, which was reviewed HERE.
 
Both of those were rather nice cheaper quartz reps, but eventually they simply didn't cut it for me, and my search for a good Ebel rep was doomed to continue. Finally, in the spring of 2008 they replicated the BTR with 7750 movement, which was great news.
 
Here are two amazing pictorials of the BTR chrono by Lanikai and
Takashi

 
 
Why Discovery Chrono is the better choice?
 
BTR is the "flagship" range of the Ebel chronographs. They use various inhouse movements and even very expensive complications. A BTR tourbillon is also rumored. All of these models come with tight subdial spacings and decorated movements with open, transparent casebacks.
 
Here's the official jargon:
 
"The entire development and construction of Caliber 137 was done 100% by Ebel and five years were needed to finalize the development and proceed to production of Caliber 137 which was launched for the very first time in 1995 and housed within the 1911 line under the name Modulor: The 1911 Chronograph was born. It is worth mentioning that Ebel integrated a very important and innovative function in this movement: the bidirectional winding of the movement (nicknamed “magic clicks”)"
 
Naturally our only automatic replica chrono movement, the lowly A7750, can't mimic such movements (and their subdial spacings). The gen BTR was a "hot topic" in the RWG when it came out, and it was one of the most anticipated reps. However, when the rep came out, the very characteristic '9 and '6 subdial "meeting point" looked wrong, and that very cool "V" rotor wasn't replicated at all. Those two flaws were disappointing to many, and the (otherwise nice) rep never became a huge success story.
 
Even with those problems, the BTR replica is still extremely impressive and good looking watch, imho. I actually ordered one already (from Eurotimez), but at the very same day they released the Discovery Chrono.
 

 
Discovery is the starting model of Ebel Chronographs. It falls into the popular $2K price category where it faces a tough competition in TAG, Breitling and Omega. Just like many of its competitors, gen Discovery utilizes the ETA 7750 movement, which makes the subdial spacing on the rep automatically correct. And unlike the BTR, Discovery has a closed caseback. While open casebacks are nice, the factories can rarely decorate the movements accurately.
 
 
The gen comes with various dial/bezel variations, and the two "main models", black and white (Panda) have been copied by the factories.
 

 
 
The Dial:
 
It's often bit of a struggle to decide between the different dial variations. Usually the white versions aren't that popular among the members, but Discovery seems to be an exception. The "Panda" dial is simply stunning and it was pretty much the only option for me. White dial watches can sometimes be a bit "understated", especially if they have silver hands. Good examples of this style are the stainless steel "2001 Daytona", and the older model of the white 1911 Chronograph (that I reviewed).
 

 
The dark subdials and hand tips (besides the white '9 hand) create very nice contrast, and the dial is highly accurate. Print quality and double-AR are impressive as well. Ebels don't have much luminous areas on the dials at all, not gens or reps. Only the hands glow.
 
 
 
The flaws:
 
Reps have become so accurate that finding any flaws from them has become bit of a challenge. The factory photos show that the endlinks are more "flush" with the case on the gen, but this real-life gen picture shows that the endlinks are exactly similar. The only flaws are the pushers, which are more protruded on the rep, and the crown, which should screw in a bit deeper.
 
It's obvious that the factory really had the gen in their hands when they produced the rep. The A7750 datewheel rarely looks perfect on the reps, but that has never bothered me. Of course the hardcore accuracy freaks might want to swap it. Maybe I'm seeing things, but the wheels look better aligned than ever... or perhaps the white dial lessens the visual effect.
 
 
The bracelet and clasp:
 

 
One of the main attractions of all Ebels (to me) is the "hidden clasp". It's very neat system and a nice innovation. The bracelet itself reminds me of the Omega Speedmaster. It's made of brushed stainless steel and has those typical small polished "stripes". Very good quality "rounded" bracelet, which countours with the wrist perfectly. But unlike some unique looking Ebel bracelets in the past, design wise this is nothing extraordinary. But then again, I guess a bit more conservative approach was exactly what Ebel needed. Capice said in his pictorial that the bracelet isn't very large and I was a bit worried about this. But fortunately it barely fit onto my '8 wrist comfortably (I like to wear my watches tight).
 
 
 
Why Ebel?
 
While Ebel is well respected among the watch people, it has very little brand recognition outside the WIS circles.
 
Don't we want our watches to "impress" general people too?
 
Well, I can assure you that Ebel Discovery chronograph is highly impressive watch. It has a strong double antireflective coating, an impressive (but not unbalanced) wrist precence, a quality bracelet and outstanding design. The white dial is captivating, and the watch looks both "modern" and "conservative" at the same time.
 
Dealers' pages advertise this as 44.5mm, but I have no idea why they're using this diameter (or how they have measured it), because it's definitely wrong, I measured the lug-to-lug diameter as 43mm (same as gen), and it even wears significantly smaller than that. It feels just like a 40-41mm watch, because the actual watch head and dial surface are small.
 

 
Ebel, as a brand, was a bit "lost" for years. And while the 1911 Chronograph line has always been attractive, some of their past designs have been less than inspiring. The previous Discovery line is a good example of this. But it seems that Ebel has finally nailed it with their new design team, and they have seemingly polished their overall image and brand prestige with the recent releases. The inhouse movements through the whole BTR line is probably not the smallest factor.
 
Discovery might be too "plain" for people who seek "extreme looks", but it's definitely "singing" to me. The (now highly popular) Breitling Skyland was my "other" option, but since I already have the SFSO, I wanted to have some variation into my moderately sized rep collection. I also wanted a white dial watch, and white Breitlings simply don't do anything for me. So this white Discovery fills the gap perfectly.
 
In my opinion, the "Panda" Discovery chronograph is a stunner, and simply one of the most attractive watches I've seen. It has some characteristics of two of my favorite chronographs, white Daytona and Broad Arrow Speedmaster, but has more impressive wrist presence. But unlike many new "jumbo" watches, I'm sure this would look good on moderately sized wrists as well. This is amazingly "balanced" watch.
 
The term "Super Rep" is often used lightly, but if the Discovery Chrono doesn't fall into that category, then nothing will. It's probably the most accurate and stunningly finished replica watch I have seen, at least in the same category with the SFSO.
 
Like I said, this is my first new replica purchase in 10 months, and when I was wrapping off the plastic from this watch this morning, my first reactions were "You gotta be kidding me!" and "Where have you been hiding all my life?" The "Panda" Discovery is simply awesome. The accuracy was excepted, but I was still positively surprised how small and balanced it wears, and how lovely it looks on the wrist.
 
Thanks to Eurotimez for this beautiful Ebel. Great watch from a great dealer. Thanks to members for the interest and support! There is more to come!

 

I just received my first brand new replica watch in 10 months... and what an absolute STUNNER it is!

Instead of flaming back, please report such posts to us. We won't tolerate abusive behavior.

Some watches become "mainstream watches", like the Skyland or GMTIIc. Or "UPO" and TAG Link before them. When hundreds of members have the same watch, these reviews (naturally) generate more interest.

I'm amazed how popular the Skyland become... all those reviews of this same watch constantly get excellent responses.

It's always the same thing in all forums/communities. The veteran members "burn out" because the hobby isn't giving them the same "boost" that they got in the beginning. When you discover something new, you're more enthusiastic... it's only natural. The trick is to learn and enjoy the stuff that you already have, not constantly seek for "more and better".

I paid off my apartment just a few months ago, which left me to a nice financial situation. I could buy a few gens and start to explore that area a little more... but after receiving my first gen Rolex, I realized how much I love the reps. The gen is simply BORING... I have taken only 1 studio pic of it so far. Who cares, it's "perfect" but without that shady and exciting "counterfeit factor". And the price is just ridiculous, there's no way to justify that (again, if you just use your common sense).

We should appreciate these reps, they're amazing. Right now I'm wearing my SFSO and think how surrealistic it is to have that kind of watch for $300. Why not take a few amazing photographs of yours Pugs? Sometimes I've been lazy to comment them, because they're always good. That doesn't mean that I haven't appreciated them... I try to change my bad habits of being lazy. Instead of whining, we all should take a good look at the mirror... we should try to solve this problem and be more supportive... activity always creates more activity.

There's some truth in this.

Some of my reviews (unless they're articles of the hot new Rolex or Planet Ocean) got very little attention. I predict my upcoming Ebel Discovery article will get 7-10 replies and 200-300 views. If you use just "common sense", it's definitely not worth all the effort... photography, design, article, layouts, etc. But I keep doing them, because I like it... not because I want attention and/or recognition. It's still a lot of fun for me.

Some reviews of "mainstream" watches get much better response. That's just how it is... and how it has always been. I don't think this has changed much. Very few people actually reply to these reviews and show that they appreciate them. Or maybe they simply don't have the interest? Or maybe these things just started to annoy you more... and perhaps you "burned out"?

I'm not saying you're wrong though... perhaps we could think of some ways to improve this?