Bidle

You should post some of your Minervas here. I've seen them on another forum, very impressive. I'm sure the members here would appreciate them as much as I.

I thought Rolex would be more appropriate, seen the affection on this forum, but Minerva it is. ;-)

First up two old Minerva's with a cal. 48 and cal. 49. Both designed by André Frey who has a great place in the watch history. He designed the famous Venus 175 caliber and later start working for Minerva and there he designed the cal. 48 which is famous for the design. He based it on the Golden Ratio. Later he even became the owner of Minerva.

This is a model from the 50's I came across and couldn't resist buying. It has the cal.48

Here a later example with the cal.49 As it has a central second. And I like the original 'glass' as it has cracks all over but only shown within a particular light angle. It gives it the charm of vintage.

Than my 'André Frey trio',... well as I like to call them. Some took me a very long time to find. I'm literally talking about years,... as when they came out I didn't knew them or just didn't had the funds to acquire them.

First a Pythagore Grande Applique. It houses the cal. 48 but with a nicer finish.

Second the 140th anniversary with a pocket watch movement from Minerva and refined to celebrate their 140th anniversary. Only 134 were made and 6 with a movement which was already finished.

Third, which I found not so long ago and my favorite of the Minerva's. It was limited to 300, but only ~94 were made. It houses a Venus 175, which was designed by André Frey before he start working at Minerva. They used NOS movements to complete these watches.

octopussy

That's exactly it. Bingo. And no Rolex - or any other example of haute horlogerie - is a good store of value. So you buy luxury items like this because you can afford to, but not as an investment.

I agree this the case for most of us, but do know some collectors who buy soley for an investment for some years now.

Personally I mostly buy because I like them or because of the history of a watch. Like some Minerva models.

Are you going to post pics of any of your original examples?

If you like sure! I already posted them on many fora as photography is also a hobby of mine. Most of my watches I have on photo. My collection varies from vintage to modern in different 'classes'.

I want to thank you all for your nice and honest comments. It was helpful and now I can understand your passion for reps a bit better. Especially the chase to try and create a watch which looks like the 'real deal'.

StilI a rep or a Franken wouldn't do it for me, because I know it is not the real deal. To be honest I even dislike fakes. I might be a bit of a freak as I, for instance, also dislike service dials ed. This feeling won't change and hasn't changed the past 20 years as an active collector.

I do respect all other opinions and try to understand it. Of-course I'll remain a member as this is, even for me who dislikes reps, a true source of good information with kind members! Maybe sometimes can even contribute some. Only I'll stick with my original examples. ;-)

Again thx!

If I was able to produce an original design that was both compelling & aesthetically superior to all others, I would certainly get to work toot sweet. In lieu of that, I have restored some gens along the way. There was a thread detailing the restoration of 1 of my DJs, but it apparently got lost during 1 of our system upgrades. However, I do have a few pics

In general, just about anyone with the skills/tools to construct a franken, can restore a basic, genuine watch.

Nice restoration and pictures!

There's the challenge: it's the intangibles that make this frustrating, and rewarding. There's no similar challenge with gens.

I agree and understand, but why not restore a nice vintage watch,... or are they not your taste of design?

Or maybe even built a new unique watch wit it's own design?

Can you tell wich is gen and wich is rep?

here is the tell: http://www.techeblog.com/elephant/photo.phtml?post_key=145896&photo_key=6225

then hit next pic

No I can't but than I'm not a car enthusiast, but nice input.

Still I would probably leave it with the poster on my boys-room and not drive a kit-car. Only because I would know it is not the real thing From my dreams.

Myself, personally, having owned several gens in my past, but with things such as life, I had to let them go, and now, not being the high flier I once was, I cannot afford several gens, so I got into the rep game. It was several years ago I first started, then life got in the way again with work, and long story short, now semi-retired, left UK and now living in Finland, I have more time on my hands, and getting back into my pastime and loving it.

I have the support of my wife too, which is a bonus.

Regarding frankening, I am in the process of frankening a 7750 Tag Carrera Day Date with gen parts. All these parts cost over €1000, and the genuine watch only retails new for just under €5k, so you may have the question why? Well, its part of the fun/thrill of this hobby, I'm a tinkerer, love watches, and love fixing things like misaligned indices and whatnot.

Anyhow, I'm rambling on, I'll get me coat lol

Sorry to read life got in away with work, but also good to read you rediscovered your passion!!

I can imagine it is a nice time spend to work on a Franken. Maybe in a later state you can try to restore a nice vintage watch!

In the mean time good luck with the TAG.

Its all down to personal preference I guess.

Yes of-course, that's why I'm asking for their reasoning out of interest. :-)

Sometimes the real deal isn't worth it. This is especially true in the Panerai world, where a good number of their watches have very basic, off-the-shelf movements. Sure, I could afford to get a real one, but it wouldn't be functionally really any different than a good rep, even in terms of water resistance and lume quality.

A good part of the fun of reps is the correcting the minutiae. Spotting a tiny difference in crown-guard shape or lug shape and then going through the painstaking work of correcting it is fun.

You start with a bracelet swap, then a crown swap, then a movement/dial/hand swap, then the next thing you know, you've got your mid-case on a lathe re-shaping the whole thing. That's fun.

Hmmmm, yes I agree on a particular level.

And even the new Panerai movements which are manufactured at ETA. Which are so called manufactura!?? The old ones with unfinished Unitas are indeed unbelievable, but still original. Indeed overpriced, but so is IWC and manny other brands.

On the other hand when is it 'worth it'? It has a lot to do with emotion and for some people just to pay more than a $100,- for a watch is not worth it. It's just a luxury article.

I also can understand someone would like the challenge to built a replica.

I own both and treat them all the same, to me they are just watches. I tend not to own Reps of a watch that I couldn't afford to own (to be fair I couldn't afford the collection I have if they were all gen either) and this is a way to own all of the watches that I want to own without spending an absurd amount of money. There is a definite difference in quality, maybe not to the lay person, but it is tangible and can sometimes justify the sticker price.

I am eyeing up a new Aqua Terra at this time my eye is focused on the gen at 4k+. Knowing that a rep may be coming in very short time and that it could be a very good rep I am going to wait, If the rep is as bad as the current ones I'll look harder at a gen. Some gens have never been repped well and if I want it, I have to go gen, that's just the way it goes.

Also like the Omega; nice choice!

But as you mention there is a definite difference in quality! Why would you settle for a rep if it looks like it? Especially if you can afford the 'real deal'!?

Snake

I like both. I would not pay over 5K for a watch so what ever I can afford within that range I will buy depending on how much I like it. I have learnt alot here on RWG and have become very aware of what is a rep and what is gen. I tend to wear both types without any prejudice.

Thx, do agree there is some valuable info on this forum. That's the reason why I became a member.

It is more a matter of value than price, though, for non-billionaires like myself, price is certainly an issue. I just cannot rationalize spending uber amounts of money on a collectible whose value is market-based. While Rolex has historically been a very safe investment, there is no guarantee that the $100k you spend on a nice Newman Daytona today will be worth that much tomorrow.

Why not just buy reps? Again, because I appreciate quality & would prefer not to be seen as a poseur, if I can avoid it (even if I am acting like 1).

Thx, I understand.

Indeed recent history showed us a drop in value for most vintage Rolex models. Also it is a kind of a myth we all believe in. Probably most steel Daytona's are just laying in a safe.

I do like watches but never looked at them as an investment. Maybe also because I buy to wear and not planning on sell them. Of-course Sometimes I do sell a watch, but not as often as my other half wishes. ;-)

Genuine watches are built/finished better than reps. Also, rep watches generally come with used/unserviced movements, so unless you have your new rep professionally overhauled upon its arrival, it's accuracy & lifespan may be limited. In my case, I tend to build frankens (watches that are constructed out of spare or parts from various other watches - gen or rep) of watches whose values reach into the stratosphere & buy gens otherwise. For example, current prices for Double Red Sea Dwellers run from $25k-$40k, so I built a franken. On the other hand, current prices for 80s Datejusts run around $4k-$8k, so I buy or build gens.

Thank you for your answer!

So if I understand correctly it is a matter of price?? If you could afford a real DRSD you would buy the real thing?

And if you weren't able to buy a DateJust you would buy a rep/frank.

Why just not buy both reps,... most won't notice the difference. You might even also be able to built/buy a rep vintage Milgauss. Or is it because you know it is a rep.

Maybe a 'stupid' example,... but when I own a nice vase and there is a small crack in it. I don't want it anymore. Even though I can't see it as it is on the backside.

This is the eternal question... One that only each individual can answer his/her own. I started with a gen, decided to own a bunch of reps instead and have now fallen into the state where I own a mix of each. Not sure what step this is on our 12-step watch addiction program but that's where I'm at. It's crazy, I admit it. But those little things that bug us are what make us seek the best Franken out there. If all else fails, go gen.

Thx for your answer,

You are right it is a personal opinion and everybody has the right to have one! I'm just interested in the opinions in this particular case!

Why did you decided to buy reps and mix it up?? Was it so you are able to change the watch you wear more often?

I own gens as over the past 10 years they have appreciated in value, some tremendously. I own reps for the fun of it, to try out watches I would never wind up buying the gen of, sometimes the rep leads to the gen purchase, other times it leaves me pining even more for the gen (Dewitt Academia).

Until you hold a MSRP 10-20k watch and wear it every day you will not understand the difference. It is there. I have owned tons of frankens and reps and when it comes down to it a Gen is a Gen. Everything just feels right and works right. The sound and tactile feeling of the crown being wound or the smoothness of the bracelet, or the way the dial catches the light, or the crispness of the printing, a Gen is a Gen.

That said you can build frankens that really go a long way to fix the differences to a point where its not so bad. That is kind of the route I'm starting to go on. I have my gen watches that I enjoy and with my extra money I will screw around with reps/frankens.

Thx for your answer!!

I totally agree with "a Gen is a Gen"!

The way you look at the reps makes more sense to me.

Sometimes it just seems that members put the reps and gens on the same 'level' Which I can't understand if people own both reps and gens.

Nothing wrong with Selita!

For the record even IWC uses these movements.

35110 =SW200

So I'm a rather new member. I'm more a reader, but,....

still have a question to some members. I noticed that a fair amount of members also have 'expensive' genuine watches!!!?? With 'expensive' I mean a genuine watch which costs at least a $1000,- or even more.

Why would you still buy a 'expensive' genuine watch if you are also into replica's/franken? Somehow it just doesn't make sense to me. For the same amount of money you would be able to buy a dozen of nice replica watches.

Or if you do buy a genuine why buy a replica on the side and just save up for another genuine?

Because it seems to me you are happier with a genuine watch than a replica?

Thank you for your reply and please insert in your reply if you indeed own a 'expensive' genuine watch.

For the record; just wondering and not to offend people,...

King

Is the Ebel also fake??

Some say that the Ebel chrono replica is of the finest ever made. It is pitch perfect.

Thx for your answer, it indeed looks shocking real on this photo.

Is the Ebel also fake??

what do you guys put ur watches in when traveling?

i am travelling in a few weeks and want to bring along 4 watches total (1 i will be wearing) so i just need a small travel friendly case that will fit 3 watches and can easily slip into my backpack without getting destroyed...any tips?

There are many and from all qualities. From €10,- on Ebay up to over a 800,-

Only one tip;

Before passing the customs put your watch in a travel-bag. So it won't be damaged in the little tray! Sometimes they want to look through the tray and can make a scratch on it, or worse on the other side your watch is gone!

I travel a lot for my job and always have everything ready and secured.

Very nice watch I saw it multiple times at the AD. They even wanted to give me a good deal, but still I had to pass. ;-)